West Ham Utd 0 Liverpool 3 (09/05/09)
Moderator: Gnome
Re: Top 4 bias
i would just say that if there still a chance of a title race going on, then the best thing for League officials and TV networks is to
have the race as close as possible. when the top 4 play each other, over the home and away series, the refs calls tend to even
out. when the other 16 teams play them, the main decisions all appear to favour the top 4 both home and away. Many team mangers have also aired there thoughts on this. The top 4 complain about protecting their players, that was not in evidence for LBM yesterday when systematically taken down at every opportunity.
have the race as close as possible. when the top 4 play each other, over the home and away series, the refs calls tend to even
out. when the other 16 teams play them, the main decisions all appear to favour the top 4 both home and away. Many team mangers have also aired there thoughts on this. The top 4 complain about protecting their players, that was not in evidence for LBM yesterday when systematically taken down at every opportunity.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
so it was definitely a pen then? from where i was sitting the other side of the pitch it looked like Torres fell like he had had his legs cut off. i couldnt bring myself to watch MOTD, because i knew that for once they would have given us top billing.
I thought LBM had a good game, his bit of experience showed through and the qualities (i say that loosely) that he has were definitely there. having said that, they outmatched us in every department, but what do you expect when 3 of their players cost more than our whole squad?
We have some major weak links which have to be fixed in the summer, namely Kovac, DDM, Tristan and probably LBM as none of these should really be knocking on the door of a first team place in our squad, and injuries and desperation aside would probably not be here in the first place.
I thought LBM had a good game, his bit of experience showed through and the qualities (i say that loosely) that he has were definitely there. having said that, they outmatched us in every department, but what do you expect when 3 of their players cost more than our whole squad?
We have some major weak links which have to be fixed in the summer, namely Kovac, DDM, Tristan and probably LBM as none of these should really be knocking on the door of a first team place in our squad, and injuries and desperation aside would probably not be here in the first place.
- davids cross
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Just one of them days. We are so short all over the pitch at the moment, they were very good and the early goal killed us. Of course they are well ahead of us at the moment but it's nothing to get over sensitive about. We all know we need our strongest eleven to even compete with these teams , the kids are getting experience and that will serve us well in the long run. We are West Ham and we've been here before many times. We move on, we've come back form defeats very well this season and hopefully we will again.
- Albie Beck
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Re: Top 4 bias
Bobby, it may be that rather than outright bias, it would be more accurate to say "Top-4 focus". The result is not blatant giving of favourable decisions, those when they inevitably occur, are simply cock-ups. But when the main focus is the Top-4 team and what the result means to them, to the exclusion of the other side, then imo there is a subtle colouring of the referees' handling, and in some cases, decisions. Not blatant, certainly not intentional, but from time to time, definitely there...Bobby Orangeboom wrote: Do i think there's bias for the Top 4 ??
Maybe, probably, possibly but if we are to assume that Wiley didn't give that Free Kick because he wanted Liverpool to win the Game then we're opening a HUGE Can of Worms...
I think the reason everyone got on thei rhigh horse about this particular scenario is the fact the the play following it resulted in them getting a Penalty..
It was a Free Kick all day long but ther'es lost of instances in Games where nailed in Free Kicks don't get given & as i said, the reason this particular one is getting highliughted more is cos they got the Penalty in the resulting attack..
I'd be more inclined to simply say Wiley didn't think it was a Free Kick quite simply rather than saying he didn't give the Free kick because he was biased towards Liverpool..
You could say it's human nature, but if the playing field were itself not so skewed, the effect would be less too.
- prophet:marginal
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
LBM definitely had a handful of shirt at the time that Torres was in the box, so yes it was a penalty.Andy wrote:so it was definitely a pen then?
The irritation though is that
1. It was abundantly clear that the ref missed the foul on LBM in a dangerous area for them
2. The tug on the shirt was possibly not visible to the ref, but
3. The theatrical dive was perfectly visible to all concerned.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
when the manager says before the game that it would be better to play the bindippers away from home, it probably doesn't instill much confidence in our forwards/attacking play ?. Also tells me, despite publically backing tristan and ddm that they are acutely aware of our inability to score one goal, let alone three or four. IIRC correctly, this the same approach Curbs took last year, when preferred 451 with either cole or ashton alone up top. even with Cole and Ashton we still don't seem capable of scoring a lot of goals and if conceed first, unlikely to be able come back and win.
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Bad day at the office!
I think it showed clearly for that you need your first eleven on the pitch when you play the top 4 particularly, as the gap just becomes too wide, but a great experience for youngsters. Noble was very good and I thought Tomkins dealt pretty well with Torres.
Saying that, think we got caught cold for the first goal, but Wiley, really is a cr@p ref, know idea why he didnt give the free kick on Boa Morte so we shouldnt even have been in the position we were for the penalty. That decision meant the game was effectively over.
Just as disappointing was the number of liverpool fans who not only had tickets in the home support but thought they had the right to openly celebrate the goals and have the cheek to react when hammers told them to fk off. ****ing hate the scousers (more so the fans than the team) and hope they win fk all again.
One to forget and if I took notice of some of the reactions on here i would have cut my own throat, some completely over the top reactions.
I think it showed clearly for that you need your first eleven on the pitch when you play the top 4 particularly, as the gap just becomes too wide, but a great experience for youngsters. Noble was very good and I thought Tomkins dealt pretty well with Torres.
Saying that, think we got caught cold for the first goal, but Wiley, really is a cr@p ref, know idea why he didnt give the free kick on Boa Morte so we shouldnt even have been in the position we were for the penalty. That decision meant the game was effectively over.
Just as disappointing was the number of liverpool fans who not only had tickets in the home support but thought they had the right to openly celebrate the goals and have the cheek to react when hammers told them to fk off. ****ing hate the scousers (more so the fans than the team) and hope they win fk all again.
One to forget and if I took notice of some of the reactions on here i would have cut my own throat, some completely over the top reactions.
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
davids cross wrote:Just one of them days. We are so short all over the pitch at the moment, they were very good and the early goal killed us. Of course they are well ahead of us at the moment but it's nothing to get over sensitive about. We all know we need our strongest eleven to even compete with these teams , the kids are getting experience and that will serve us well in the long run. We are West Ham and we've been here before many times. We move on, we've come back form defeats very well this season and hopefully we will again.
Great post
- Sauce!
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Had a couple next to me in the DMU (foreign 'pool fans, not mickeys, no colours etc.. They arrived about 5 min after kick-off and one of them said "Who scored the goal?". I replied "have a guess", and they just smiled knowingly. To be fair, they didn't celebrate the 2nd and 3rd goals. All they did was take pictures of the scoreboard.Frodo Hammer wrote:
Just as disappointing was the number of liverpool fans who not only had tickets in the home support but thought they had the right to openly celebrate the goals and have the cheek to react when hammers told them to fk off. ****ing hate the scousers (more so the fans than the team) and hope they win fk all again.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Referee's who are overweight shouldn't be assigned to games as they are not confident enough in themselves to go against the top 4 teams.
It was a disgrace, a disgrace.........a FFFIN DISGRACE!!!
The penalty, Torres went down like he had been shot the diving twat. I know LBM had his shirt but it hardly would knock him down would it.
Alan Wiley was giving Liverpool decisions all day long.
It was a disgrace, a disgrace.........a FFFIN DISGRACE!!!
The penalty, Torres went down like he had been shot the diving twat. I know LBM had his shirt but it hardly would knock him down would it.
Alan Wiley was giving Liverpool decisions all day long.
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
The ones i saw and heard weren't foreign. In fact the one closest to me not only put himself in danger of a good kicking, he also had three kids with him. I felt sorry for them because they had to listen to their father getting abused, but he put himself in that position. For me its no soo much the fact they had home support tickets (although the number of them was rediculous especially when there was room in the away stand,) we have all at some stage done that, it was more the flaming cheek to celebrate the goals and think its ok to do that.Sauce! wrote:
Had a couple next to me in the DMU (foreign 'pool fans, not mickeys, no colours etc.. They arrived about 5 min after kick-off and one of them said "Who scored the goal?". I replied "have a guess", and they just smiled knowingly. To be fair, they didn't celebrate the 2nd and 3rd goals. All they did was take pictures of the scoreboard.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
That pretty much sums it up.davids cross wrote:Just one of them days. We are so short all over the pitch at the moment, they were very good and the early goal killed us. Of course they are well ahead of us at the moment but it's nothing to get over sensitive about. We all know we need our strongest eleven to even compete with these teams , the kids are getting experience and that will serve us well in the long run. We are West Ham and we've been here before many times. We move on, we've come back form defeats very well this season and hopefully we will again.
I am curious, however, why Savio is not getting a look-in at the moment ...
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Thanks Shreddie, apparently he outplayed Torres, but got done by a dutch kid who is about 2 years older than him.shreddie wrote:
From what I remember he did allow Babel to drift off of him for the 3rd......other than that had a pretty tidy game i thought.
Its nice that we support our own, but lets not get carried away eh?
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
good post fellaissi wrote:Why all the gloom, Zloa and Clarke have had us over achieving for some time with the players he has had available. Today we played one of the best teams in Europe ( 4 against Real and Man U recently ) and they made us play to our potential. Not many teams have managed that this season. Its not all bad, its a hiccup hopefully.
We all know we struggle score without any effective strikers, anyone expecting anything more than a 0-0 before the game was optomistic IMHO. We had a not good day, the first goal killed us, we have had so many good ones recently there is no real need to panic. 2 games to go and STILL in with a sniff of Europe, many clubs would swap positions with us.
After the third, when all the early birds left, thought the crowd were great, down in the CL anyway. Was proud to a hammer today, despite the score line.
we was poor yesterday,but in general looking at the big picture,with the injuries we`ve had we have done well.how newcastle & boro would like to swap places with us eh
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Noble bossed the show?'ouston 'ammer wrote:Green 8 ~ did what eh needed to do, great penalty dsave shame it went left instead of right
Ilunga 7 ~ doesn't track back well or fast enough
Tomkins 8 ~ gets better and better against who could be the best striker in the world
Upson 8 ~ as above
Neil 6 ~ poor by late standards
LBM 6 ~ no 5 for the penalty which cost us the game ~ twat
Kovacs 6 ~ piss poor distribution
Noble 8 ~ bossed the show
Stanislas 6 ~ a bit lost after a bright start would do better on the right
DDM 5 ~ say no more
Tristan 6 ~ ditto
****ing hell, you can learn a lot on this site.
- prophet:marginal
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Got done by a very nippy substitute, having spent a whole match playing against a record-breaking member of the best international squad in present-day Europe.Chuck D wrote:
Thanks Shreddie, apparently he outplayed Torres, but got done by a dutch kid who is about 2 years older than him.
Its nice that we support our own, but lets not get carried away eh?
Yeah, no need to get carried away, but is it wrong to try to accentuate the positives, for Tomkins, or for the team generally?
We could, for instance, have lost that match by a single goal, if Green's fine shot-stopping had only been compounded with some luck on where the rebounds from his saves landed.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
wat part of the ground were these liverpool fans in?? you should have gave them grief and asked the stewards to turf em out we must be getting soft i never saw any of em in the dml lower.Frodo Hammer wrote:Bad day at the office!
I think it showed clearly for that you need your first eleven on the pitch when you play the top 4 particularly, as the gap just becomes too wide, but a great experience for youngsters. Noble was very good and I thought Tomkins dealt pretty well with Torres.
Saying that, think we got caught cold for the first goal, but Wiley, really is a cr@p ref, know idea why he didnt give the free kick on Boa Morte so we shouldnt even have been in the position we were for the penalty. That decision meant the game was effectively over.
Just as disappointing was the number of liverpool fans who not only had tickets in the home support but thought they had the right to openly celebrate the goals and have the cheek to react when hammers told them to fk off. ****ing hate the scousers (more so the fans than the team) and hope they win fk all again.
One to forget and if I took notice of some of the reactions on here i would have cut my own throat, some completely over the top reactions.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
Yeah, that would have been great, a one nil home defeat, with no shots on target. Its that kind of thing that gets people to renew their season tickets.prophet:marginal wrote:
Got done by a very nippy substitute, having spent a whole match playing against a record-breaking member of the best international squad in present-day Europe.
Yeah, no need to get carried away, but is it wrong to try to accentuate the positives, for Tomkins, or for the team generally?
We could, for instance, have lost that match by a single goal, if Green's fine shot-stopping had only been compounded with some luck on where the rebounds from his saves landed.
And if your auntie had b*llocks, she'd be your uncle.
Its the blind optimism that will allow the BG to spend f*** all in the summer, and we will reap the rewards next year.
Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
well saidChuck D wrote:
Do you think its unreasonable for a the manager, assistant manager, and DOF of a premiership football club to have more idea of who is available in the world of football than some blokes on an internet forum?
Jo (loan), Beattie, & Harewood (loan) all moved clubs. Any one of those would have improved our forward line without breaking any banks. Likewise, Benjani at City would have been a good shout. Any of those players in more mobile, and more of an overall addition to the team than the lumbering Tristan.
On your last point, given that the January creates an "inflated, overhyped market", why sign Savio if he wasnt going to play?
Why not do the deal and bring him in during the summer window, allowing him another half season of actually playing football, as opposed to getting splinters in his arse at our club? Oh, and not having to pay the "overhyped, inflated price" we did?
- rare as rockinghorse shat
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Re: West Ham v Liverpool Match Thread
rare as rockinghorse shat/[color=#0000FF]Fionn[/color] wrote:re: Savio...
When he signed, he was always gonna be someone who we'd see in the future, with occasional glimpses short term.
Nothing has changed.
That was the idea. My qualm with the transfer was that it was possibly the wrong transfer for the situation we were in at the time. I've nothing against signing players with potential and all that, I'd just prefer to sort out our current team first and then build for the future. Is that madness?
No it's not madness, but it's good to focus on the bigger picture.
Maybe Arsenal should have signed a more recognised forward when Henry left, instead of Fabregas...
We may have had x amount of money and we decided: "look, we're playing well, we have Cole up front who has a very good injury record, Di Michele is playing well off of him, so we'll take the calculated risk of signing one of our targets right now (a promising youngster with brilliant potential), to grab him while we can before interest comes in the future".
It was all paying off until Cole got injured in a stupid incident on England duty.
**** happens, risks work, some don't... but we still have a great chance of finishing in Europe without signing a striker, which was the calculated risk at the time.
It happens - the management were bang on by not replacing Bellamy.
Few bad results and now all these poxy f***ing questions and conspiricy theories. (though to be fair, a couple did raise the issue immediately).
If he had scored just 1 goal this season, then everything would have been rosy to some,- that's just how much a fickle load of cock it is.
It's nothing about being fickle mate. There's no knee-jerking going on. How could there be, he's not even playing? Tristan has scored three goals this season, I still think he's absolutely gash though and can't wait to get rid of him.
My point about the fickle thing is not is form, but how more people are now all of a sudden questioning his transfer and all that b*llocks.
My point was that it's now happening when the team isn't doing that great.
If we had won yesterday, the point wouldn't have been raised.
If Savio had have scored 1 goal, the point wouldn't have been raised.
If we had beat Tottenham, the point wouldn't have been raised
...even if Savio had played or not.
My point is that as soon as something goes a bit tits up with the team, then people start ****ing pissing and moaning and start to pluck out just about any negative they can find.
Thats why it's fickle.
£5m most likely according to varied reports, so a bit unfair to sensationalise his signing by tagging him as a 'record signing sitting on the bench' and all that b***ocks.
Was it not Duxbury who came out with the 'record signing' tag? I can't really remember to be honest. Perhaps not.
As far as I remember, it was the usual sensationalist press b*llocks, saying we had spent £9m on him etc... as usual, when things are going a bit bad, people choose to listen to the negative aspects of someting.
Things going well (even if Savio not playing) = we have invested £5m in a very promising talent and we have a good team. Things look bright... yay whoop whoop, slurrp.
Things not going so good (with Savio not playing) = we spunked £9m on our RECORD SIGNING to sit on the bench when we should have signed so n so,... blah... tevez.. blah... curbs.. blah... brown out... blah.... pardew... blah... reo coker.. blahh...
This place is a ****ing mare when things get tough.
He was never gonna be the replacement for Bellamy. I said at the time it seems like he was a future target of some real promise, but we've gone in there and done the deal immediately when we had the chance, because we then had the money to afford him, rather than bide our time and risk losing him to interest from one of the bigger boys if we'd waited.
Possibly and I hope you're right in regards to the future. But as I aforementioned, I just think we got our priorities mixed up that's all.
Of course, we'll see.
He's 19, he's a kid.
He's a German who has moved from an Italian club, to one of the biggest clubs in one of the biggest cities in the world.
He isn't a 19yr old Josh Payne or Jack Collison who have been at the club for 5 years, for example...
He's also a professional footballer. It's his job. Many people have it a lot harder at a younger age.
People were going to war at 19, people are on the street at 19. The average age of the combat soldier in Vietnam was 19...
Yeah some have it harder, but what I said still remains. For a kid his age, 'professional' or not... he's be a pro for only a few years, been uprooted from his home, taken to Italy, now finds himself in the West Ham squad in the Premier League.
Yes, other lads have it hard too, but someone like Payne, Collison, Noble, Tomkins etc, have been with the club for years and feel like they belong.
This lad has been all over the shop... it's gonna take it's toll and time to settle... as was always the case... a bit of bad form from the team and some debateable decisions from the management or not.
Of course not signing another forward was a risk, but it was a calculated risk.
Cole got injured, Di Michele got sh*t who relied on Cole for a good partnership. sh*t happens.
Should we have been relying on DDM and Tristan as our 2nd and 3rd choice strikers in the first place? Actually scrap that, that's a whole different arguement.
I agree.. but people seemed pretty quiet when Di Michele and Cole were stringing together some promsing partnership displays.
But yes, it's off on another tangent.
Did we sacrifice Europe next season to sign Savio? Possibly.
Which would be an awful shame.
But if by doing so, we have signed the equivalent of a Fabregas or Robinho (best case scenario of course) - wouldn't you be happy in retrospect, that we did?!
Again... it needs time.
But you ask me in 3 years, when Savio is one of the stars of the league, whether I am glad we managed to secure his services at the time we did, at the cost of Europe, I'll tell you I am more than glad.
If we still qualify for Europe this season and he goes on to be a star, then the risk would have paid off and we'd all be f***ing laughing.
All things going well mate.
Of course... we'll see... may work out better, may work out worse.
At this moment in time we don't know, which is why I hate reading all the negative b*llocks now... especially about a young lad who was always gonna be rarely seen this season.
Or Nani is a crook and the club have been swindled out of '£9m' of which a lump has lined the fat cat's pockets as it's all one conspiracy made by Nani who single handedly made the whole deal happen on his own...
Would it surprise you that much? I'm not one for theories either but this whole situation just stinks really. I sincerely hope I'm wrong on the whole thing, which I probably am.
Well until it happens and we are in court again, let's be a little reserved with the whole scaremongering and knee jerk reactions after some iffy performances.