Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.
prophet:marginal wrote:Beattie's winner was a bit suspect; looked as if he went through Faubert to score?
Romford wrote:How about Faubert actually defending the ball and being decisive ?
How many goals this season have we let in due to this fellas inability to react to situations, poor position and Tomas Repkesque asking for decisions that he is asking for due to his own p!ss poor defending and mistakes.
I don't care if he care play a nice cross in...he's there to stop goals :evil:
Well, I take that point. He should have been more decisive, but that was one part of the problem (for me, from my armchair). Green's now made several saves this season that return the ball invitingly to the 6 yard line. Its not easy to clear that kind of ball, especially if a striker is bearing down on the ball too.
Faubert is not a RB - it seems - he is being played there, but it doesn't seem to come naturally to him.
So, you're right; Faubert being there made Beattie's job easier. I still think Beattie went through Faubert to make the shot.
Our second was down (imo) to Diamanti dithering and losing the ball in midfield as were pushing hard for a goal. It put us right in it as shown in the goal that quickly followed.
morganwhu wrote:
having just seen this on motd i think faubert should have dealt with it.
Chuck D wrote:I can see that, but before the ball gets to him, Upson, Ilunga, and Green are sold a pup, missing in action, and fail to deal with a tame shot respectively.
For sure, Faubert should deal with it better. The same should also be said for the others too.
Agreed. That didn't look like two people eager to play their way into Capello's heart, did it?
Tel The Hammer wrote:
Neill was a quality right back who orchestrated the back four very well. Without him our defence is all at sea.
Has Neill actually played for Everton yet? I think he's been an unused sub so far.
Which begs the question whether we should have just ****ed him off much earlier in the Summer. He got a one year deal at Goodison, but sacrificed a pre-season to do so.
I thought Green's save was very timid. He should have done much much better imo.
At the moment we are getting let down by the people in our team that we depend on for stability, the people who are meant to be rocks for us making uncharacteristic mistakes (Green, Upson). This is what has got to stop.
I also think that Diamanti hasn't shown enough fight for the prem/english football yet. He might put in a nice cross but maybe he's suffering from the same problem as Romford noted for Faubert. Does the odd nice cross/free kick or shot at goal make up for the lack of substance in open play?
derek zoolander wrote:I thought Green's save was very timid. He should have done much much better imo.
At the moment we are getting let down by the people in our team that we depend on for stability, the people who are meant to be rocks for us making uncharacteristic mistakes (Green, Upson). This is what has got to stop.
I also think that Diamanti hasn't shown enough fight for the prem/english football yet. He might put in a nice cross but maybe he's suffering from the same problem as Romford noted for Faubert. Does the odd nice cross/free kick or shot at goal make up for the lack of substance in open play?
Make you totally right on Green and Upson. They need to step up at the moment, not take a step back.
As for Diamanti, I am personally still prepared to cut him some slack. He's not a miracle-worker; this is his first season in top flight football and he's had to adapt to several different forward positions in the first 8 or so games in which he has featured.
Why has Hines taken a back-seat recently? We need some pace to be used to run at defences
We had a lot of possession yesterday but I don't agree with some of the previous posters that said we created plenty of chances.
We have the same problem we have had all season, Cole is isolated, we don't get enough players in the box, we lack a cutting edge and keep on making schoolboy defensive errors that cost us goals.
The ref was a homer and gave everything to Stoke but Diamanti didn't help our cause by constantly falling over from the slight breeze.
As usual the formation doesn't work and the substitutions are left to late, why can't we have Hines or Franco playing with or just behind Cole, please!
prophet:marginal wrote:Make you totally right on Green and Upson. They need to step up at the moment, not take a step back.
As for Diamanti, I am personally still prepared to cut him some slack. He's not a miracle-worker; this is his first season in top flight football and he's had to adapt to several different forward positions in the first 8 or so games in which he has featured.
Why has Hines taken a back-seat recently? We need some pace to be used to run at defences
I'm not sure about the Hine's thing. It seems logical to me to have him playing up front with Cole. Both are quite pacy, and Cole is one of the best at holding up the ball and playing it off. I personally would take Hine's in that team over Diamanti if i'm honest and that's what I was kind of pointing towards in my last post.
I don't think Diamanti brings a whole lot to our team performance and I would rather we sacrificed his attacking midfield position in place of Hines as an out and out striker who imo would probably contribute far more to the whole cause and is as we have seen a constant annoyance/danger to the opposition defense.
Agreed. We need to find a place for Hines. He caused Liverpool real problems. If that means Diamanti spends some time on the bench, I can see the sense.
JonG86 wrote:
Our best defenders last year were Ilunga and Upson and they are both still at the club. Neill was our best captain, but was not a good defender (especially when up against a faster winger), Collins was always getting turned and had shown no improvement this season. Anyone remember Ebainks Blake skinning him against Wolves?
The problem is Upson and Green appear to have lost all focus and it is causing massive problems at the back.
Blaming Faubert for the 2nd after the comedy of errors by several of our the other players is a bit silly if you ask me.
Bit silly ?
Yes Upson got beaten by Fuller and Diamante should have done better but how far do you take these things back.
Did Beattie have to do much right in front of goal... You know the answer.
The fact is that since Faubert being played at RB...it has unsettled the whole defence and now there is a lack of confidence. It reminds me of Mervyn Day when Tommy Taylor started at centre back. He turned from the best keeper in the country to the worst due to him not having confidence in his defence.
I thought Tomkins was poor yesterday aswell...and has had a couple of mares this season BUT i put that down to a certain Frenchman whose positioning and decision making is very erratic. Chuck in that he spends more time pointing and asking the ref for decisions and you have a very weak link. Tomkins is having to do too much.
You can see a mile off where teams look to attack us...and the proof is in the goals we have let in.
That saying...Faubert ISN'T the reason main reason why we are down there. While playing just Cole upfront...we are giving far too much impetus away.
I think though that Zola has a problem playing Diamante and a striker to partner Cole. Also must throw in that Jimmy hasn't been the player that GFZ had expected...although that seeems very harsh given the time he's been given.
If we don't attack teams...our defence right now wont keep anyone out.
derek zoolander wrote:
I'm not sure about the Hine's thing. It seems logical to me to have him playing up front with Cole. Both are quite pacy, and Cole is one of the best at holding up the ball and playing it off. I personally would take Hine's in that team over Diamanti if i'm honest and that's what I was kind of pointing towards in my last post.
I don't think Diamanti brings a whole lot to our team performance and I would rather we sacrificed his attacking midfield position in place of Hines as an out and out striker who imo would probably contribute far more to the whole cause and is as we have seen a constant annoyance/danger to the opposition defense.
GFZ is being a tad unfair to Diamante...and should be giving Hines more of a chance. I know that most of our good chances (and goals) have come from set plays with quality coming in of which Diamante is obviously top drawer at but to expect the effort and mileage needed in the midfield from a fella who isn't used to Prem pace is leaving the defence (which hasn't got much confidence) very vulnerable.
Romford wrote:GFZ is being a tad unfair to Diamante...and should be giving Hines more of a chance. I know that most of our good chances (and goals) have come from set plays with quality coming in of which Diamante is obviously top drawer at but to expect the effort and mileage needed in the midfield from a fella who isn't used to Prem pace is leaving the defence (which hasn't got much confidence) very vulnerable.
I think that's a fair assessment
It does surprise me that Zola and Clarke havn't seen this. I wouildn't suggest they feel under pressure to play the new signings either because they didn't with Savio after all.
Am I the only one who is convinced that Ethers dived yesterday. Faubert pulled out of the tackle and Ethers just dragged his leg behind him and went down.
Am I the only one who is convinced that Ethers dived yesterday. Faubert pulled out of the tackle and Ethers just dragged his leg behind him and went down.
I thought there was an element of that too. I also think Beattie had tons of Faubert's shirt for the second goal. Faubert does his best but isn't a right back in the gritty, defensive sense.
The problem is that when we attack there is no one screaming into the box. That role should be Hines. To me it's the system that's wrong, players don't seem to know their jobs and this is contributing to ever dwindling confidence and spiralling into a vicious circle where the players who have been rock solid over a number of years (Upson and Green) are making silly mistakes.
Sadly, this is a management failing. I wish Zola and Clarke would "go back to basics". They should decide their best team, stick with it and most importantly, set the team up so someone is near enough to Cole to have an impact. At half time, Cole walked off looking frustrated and as if he was giving Zola an earful. I thought Cole looked disenchanted yesterday, and I'm not surprised.
On a more cheerful note, Behrami is a real cherub, embarrassed the crowd applauded the end and apologising.
As some may know, I called it as a 2-2 draw yesterday , and don't think it would have been an unreasonable result .
However the harsh reality is we lost to another ordinary team, the second time in a week we have dropped points against sides whom we need to be targetting as being bankers for maximum returns .
To be fair, I thought we played well for about a 20 minute spell in the second half, but that won't ever be enough to take the spoils in this league .
Aside from the result I was concerned with a number of items yesterday .
Firstly, Faubert was caught making a rash challange that a real fullback probably would have resisted - a real sucker punch in my view , and Etherington was very ready to make a meal out of the lightest of touches, but Faubert's inexperience in that role cost us a goal .
Secondly, Tomkins is being asked to do too much - midfielders are not taking responsibility to move the ball forwards .On nine occasions yesterday ( yes I counted them) , Tomkins was reduced to launching the ball in the general direction of Cole .Not a good way to play the game . Yesterday we had Kovac in for Parker, and shirley part of his job is to collect the ball from the centre half ( because with very few exceptions none of them can play) , and act as the first distributor to move the ball forwards.Unfortunately when he did so, his passing was poor and ponderous .
Their second goal came after Diamanti gave the ball away cheaply in the middle of the field, and Fuller skinned Upson with consumate ease . Tomkins was too slow to go to Fuller once he had skinned Upson, and Green should have done better with saving a weak, but accurate shot . But I go back to Diamanti .An absolute passenger so far in open play .
Behrami and Collison both did fine bearing in mind they've just come back after being out, Noble was steady without showing all that much .
Cole, had an off game in my view, but the crap pass against spuds apart he's had a good season so far.
Zola was again slow to make a positive change .The changes were needed at half time , not when 2-1 down .He's showing signs of changing things to chase games, not win games .The shape of the team was wrong again, as was the starting line up .Cole was getting battered by both their centre halfs all afternoon because they only had him to mark .He was frequently squeezed between the pair of them . A few balls on the deck with some pace would have posed them bigger questions .
Sticking Franco on for 7 minutes smacked of desperation . If fit enough to be on the bench , give him a real run out or don't bother .
Overall the shape is wrong, causing selection errors, and in my view a loss of confidence throughout the side .It's one thing playing it tight against teams like Manure and Arsenal, but you need 2 up front for games against Fulham,Stoke, Pompey,Blackbur,Bolton etc It is essential we win those fixtures , and Cole alaone won't do it .
Bet you any money he plays it 4-4-2 next week , the one week when we need to pack midfield .
It's not unsalvagable, but Zola needs to clear his head, and if need be swallow his pride .Diamanti, 433, not for me I'm afraid .
Apologies if it's already been covered further back in the thread but...
The O/S says: Robert Huth appeared to catch Upson in the face off the ball, and if the referee had seen it as violent play, surely a red card and a penalty would have followed for the German.
Is that the case or would it just be a red card as the ball wasn't in play yet?
MikeNewell'sOldBoys wrote:Apologies if it's already been covered further back in the thread but...
The O/S says: Robert Huth appeared to catch Upson in the face off the ball, and if the referee had seen it as violent play, surely a red card and a penalty would have followed for the German.
Is that the case or would it just be a red card as the ball wasn't in play yet?
If the ball's not in play then it's just a red card.
MikeNewell'sOldBoys wrote:Apologies if it's already been covered further back in the thread but...
The O/S says: Robert Huth appeared to catch Upson in the face off the ball, and if the referee had seen it as violent play, surely a red card and a penalty would have followed for the German.
Is that the case or would it just be a red card as the ball wasn't in play yet?
Agreed.
Most likely written by Duckers, we know what he knows about football.
Dannyboylister wrote:Am I the only one who is convinced that Ethers dived yesterday. Faubert pulled out of the tackle and Ethers just dragged his leg behind him and went down.
It was a disgraceful dive. Silly lunge but that ungrateful ugly **** shouldn't had thrown himself on the floor like that.
You know the answer.
