West Ham Utd 1 Wolves 3 (23/03/10)

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durham city hammer
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by durham city hammer »

Got to say fair play to franco, i wanted him dropped for mcarthy last night and unfortunately i got my wish, for me he showed more effort and desire in the short time he was on the pitch than mcarthy and quite a few others put together, he seems to be one of only a few players at the club who appreciates the s*** we are in and wants to do something about it! so many things wrong with last night, the most annoying thing for me is the total lack of urgency, everyone knew a fast start was required, to get in their faces and close down as soon as they got possesion, but it never came yet again and we just seem to invite presure which is so f****g frustrating! cant see where the points are going to come from now, of the home games stoke and wigan are our best bets, sunderlands front pair will have a field day on last nights showing and city will be too strong, away we have a chance at fulham, possibly! it aint looking too good i'm afraid to say!
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by [HH] »

It was a crap game, and the players didn't know what to do when on the ball, gratis to midfielders and strikers who wanted it too easy. As mentioned by the previous poster, the lack of urgency was a real issue, and only became evident once we went 2-0 down, and last 2-3 minutes owing to the completion of a quick-fire double.

Some will say the buck stops with Zola, but that overpasses individual thought. Chipping the ball up into the middle didn't work, yet it continued all game as if they were void of ideas. Stanislas was rightly introduced to add much-needed pace, replacing the disappointing Kovac. I was against the decision to replace Tomkins though. The players were static and offered no movement. They found it hard to track Wolves players, and gave no options when on the ball. Zola can only do so much, and with players which hold the status of England's number one goalkeeper, the third-choice centre-back as captain, and an England striker. It's not unfair to expect better. Further to that, can Zola be held accountable for individual errors which have cost us so dearly this season? I don't think he can.

After calls to return to a 4-4-2, we have done so yet possess no more width, owing to questionable January transfer signings in my opinion. Some believe Sullivan motivated the team because of Zola's ineptitude; the same Zola who remains employed by Sullivan as of present. I heard someone stating "Zola is the statistically the worst manager in West Ham's history.". He's not wrong. At the same time you can't be quantitative about these things. It's no surprise that these figures coincide with atrocious account keeping. The same man said "Can we do any worse?". He's right, I don't think we can performance wise. The only thing we can change before the end of the season is manager. Whether it'll be more constructive or destructive to do so is another matter for another thread.

I've not heard such an unsavoury atmosphere. The abuse Tomkins got having received the loudest cheer during the Tony Carr testimonial video was contrasting. Some will point to motivation and that Zola lacks the skill, yet those vocal enough to complain seem to think screaming expletives is a fascinating way of motivation which doesn't quite make sense to me. Perhaps a running track isn't such a bad thing after all.

On a final note, 'Matthew Upson - Leader of men', read a headline on the programme. :?
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by travisbickle »

I'm still numb from last night.

I fully expected us to come out all guns blazing and put the league's lowest scorers to the sword. But the first few minutes were really strange - I just couldn't understand the lack of urgency, the lack of desire, the inability to keep or pass the ball to a team mate. My brother, who knows close to f**k all about football, said it was like a Premiership team playing a First Division team (he meant Championship).

Perhaps that's the level we're at. However, I refuse to believe this. Individually we have some very good players - Parker, Cole, Green, Behrami and Diamante to name a few. Sure, form comes and goes and some aren't fully fit, but even allowing for that I don't think it's unfair to think that the average ability of a team with those names would be enough to sit comfortably mid-table.

Why are we not there then? It's not just last night (which stands alone as a new low), but other games throughout the season which have heaped all this pressure on us. Why oh why did we throw away 2 goal leads at Hull and Sunderland? Why did we only (by the skin of our teeth) just draw against a 10 man Fulham on our own patch? The season has been peppered by missed opportunities and individual errors.

My thinking is that, ultimately, Zola is to blame. Before laying into him, let me temper my remarks by saying that I really badly wanted him to succeed. No one can argue against the man he is - honest, warm, caring and a wonderful footballer. Yet in those qualities lies the flaw. Most of us like him and I've no doubt that the players love the guy. But he's not being paid to be loved, he's being paid to train, organise and to some extent motivate a team. Do the players respect his ability to do that? I think that they if they once did, they do no longer.

Perhaps that is what's called 'losing' the dressing room. I know that if I for one moment thought that my own boss didn't know what he was doing I'd lose all respect for him and if he instructed me to do something, I wouldn't believe it to be the right thing to do and so I wouldn't do it to the best of my ability.

Last night was, I believe, the culmination in the loss of respect of the players for Zola the manager. I really hope that their love of Zola the man will be enough to see us safe this season, then we can all go away and lick our wounds this summer and hope and pray for a less testing season next time around.

I don't know what you, my fellow Hammers fans, feel, but I am so tired of getting excited and geed up for a Saturday and continually being kicked in the gut and depressed. It's like being given the eye by a beautiful woman but always being told 'not tonight'. Today a work colleague, a Gooner season ticket holder for more than 30 years, said that he wouldn't mention last night. He felt sorry for me. A new low.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by issi »

the pink palermo wrote:So , in short do you think that made them play better ? Or did it just allow people to let off steam ?
Allowed people to vent their frustration, of course they are not going to play better, they might against Stoke though

At 2-0 down a point was still possible if improbable , the chants started and soon we went to 3-0 down , and even a point proved impossible despite Francos late effort .
No way was it possible for them to come back from 2-0, teams have worked out the **** tactics and how to beat us, even the manager that took a club down with the lowest amount of points ever can work out our team at the moment
Tonight every single one of us should have been focussed on geting something from the game - all the abuse in the world ain't going to keep us up .
Mate, I agree funny enough. I have stood and cheered right to the end, claret and blue army.......Liverpool, chelsea and all the rest of the games this season home and away. And that was the reason for what was seen last night, what good did it do us. How many 6 pointers have the team thrown away, how many times have we got behind them, cheered and supported to be dissapointed at the crap they give in return. Abuse wont keep us up, neither will they way we play. Last night the fans told everyone, enough is enough.

The players are confused .They don't know how the Manager wants them to play , they don't know their specific roles , tactics , and as one little aside , this season we have had of the top of my head the following combinations at CB

Da Costa / Upson
Da Costa / Tomkins
Upson / Tomkins
Gabbs/Tomkins
Upson / Gabbs
Upson/Specs
Upson/ Collins
and on the basis not all of these combinations were caused by injury , one can only assume the Manager is unsure of his best option .
Clue : Collins was one half of it .
Doesnt stop them making an effort, chasing the second ball and giving all for the fight to save out club. Didnt haopen though, did it, except Parker.

Sure the players have been poor , but there are posters on this board who I would back to organise the resources available better than the current Manager .
Just looked to me that they cared more for their massive pay packets than anything else, I agree Zola needs to go, there are far better about and maybe even one that can save the club. There was real venom in the CL last night after a season of crap and what it costs to watch that crap I supposed that we all felt it was not right to applaude those mugging off those that do care. To be fair, it was not all the CL, there are those that will blindly follow the overpaid under performing members of the team. Out of loyalty, tell me, how many of those on the pitch will be there next season if we go down.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by ShortRound »

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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by hammer1975 »

talking to people leaving the sir trev lower last night the feeling was that we'd tried to be supportive and all season and it was not working - sure it wasn't nice to have a go at the players and the manager but perception was that we're a lost cause and positive cheering hasn't worked so have to try something different.....few people who were particularly irate felt that most of the players will be gone in the summer and shouldn't get an easy ride at the moment and be free to walk away without getting some kind of feeling of how the fans view them when they've let down the fans so badly....
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by travisbickle »

ShortRound wrote:f*** this

Have it, you lot!!!!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'appy days. Lets hope for a repeat this season. :thup:
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

issi wrote: There was real venom in the CL last night after a season of crap and what it costs to watch that crap
To be fair, it was not all the CL, there are those that will blindly follow the overpaid under performing members of the team. Out of loyalty, tell me, how many of those on the pitch will be there next season if we go down.
I know there was venom - I was there and heard it , and FWIW I thought it shattered the teams last remaining vestiges of spirit .Thats my opinion .

At the same time a few of the Wolves players probably felt great .I'm certain their Manager did .

I don't care how many will stay if we go down , I care about us all trying not to go down . Booing , chants about sacking the Manager etc really doesn't help .

It isn't Tomkins fault he is being asked to a job 2 years before he's really ready . It isn't Coles fault he is playing whilst not fit and therefore has crap movement , it isn't Spectors fault he is playing in his 4th different position of the season .

These are the players we've got and they are all we've got . Telling them they are crap will not make them play better .

We've all seen crap teams and performances over the years at the Boleyn -and whilst last nights performance was dreadful , how do you think Tomkins felt sat alone in the changing room "injured" listening to his mates getting abused and thinking it's all my fault ?

Super ****ing confident about marking Fuller on Saturday ? Possibly not . Lets pray Gabbs is fit and Da Costa is available or we will
be sending out a shell shocked player yet again .

I just hope the self serving get it off my chest merchants haven't destoyed him forever .
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by miketheloop »

No motivation, no tactics and no organisation. Zola really must go.

I've seen a few digs at Parker, don't really get that. Parker has been our best player for at least two years. Without him this season we would be even more lost.

I agree with earlier comments of diamanti playing RM, total waste of time. Spector awful, kovac
awful, Cole awful, benni not match fit. The list goes on. How can a team with so much international experience be So poor at the simple things?? Why isn't Noble playing? Parker and noble work well together imo.

Felt sorry for Tomkins, he saved Upons skin many times this season. How the hell does Upson get in the England team???

Why on earth did Zola send Nouble out on loan?? Would of been intresting to see Noulbe and Cole playing together after
a few games under their belt.

It's not looking good :( Zola has to go.
Last edited by miketheloop on Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by speculator »

The worst chant for me was 'we want our money back' when we only paid £3.50 to get in it never bothered us but now people feel that in paying high ticket prices they must have a good performance.

It's going to be tough Saturday and we have to take it on the chin a bit and not let our frustration get to the players. They are really flat so anymore bollockings will turn them into nervous wrecks. It's far from over we just got to get passing it about and build up some confidence, we've got three home games that could keep us safe and maybe nick a point at Fulham - so opportunities are there. We have got to learn to battle now. These teams coming down who are also in trouble will be looking to get stuck in. We've got to be first to the ball.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by e17 »

travisbickle wrote:I'm still numb from last night.
Same here. The most passion I saw all night was the ****ers queue jumping for the tube after the game :lol:

I have had fun at work today drowning out the jibes from the spud fans with my stupid clicky thing though..
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by QuintonNimoy »

the pink palermo wrote:I know there was venom - I was there and heard it , and FWIW I thought it shattered the teams last remaining vestiges of spirit .Thats my opinion .

At the same time a few of the Wolves players probably felt great .I'm certain their Manager did .

I don't care how many will stay if we go down , I care about us all trying not to go down . Booing , chants about sacking the Manager etc really doesn't help .

It isn't Tomkins fault he is being asked to a job 2 years before he's really ready . It isn't Coles fault he is playing whilst not fit and therefore has crap movement , it isn't Spectors fault he is playing in his 4th different position of the season .

These are the players we've got and they are all we've got . Telling them they are crap will not make them play better .

We've all seen crap teams and performances over the years at the Boleyn -and whilst last nights performance was dreadful , how do you think Tomkins felt sat alone in the changing room "injured" listening to his mates getting abused and thinking it's all my fault ?

Super f***ing confident about marking Fuller on Saturday ? Possibly not . Lets pray Gabbs is fit and Da Costa is available or we will
be sending out a shell shocked player yet again .

I just hope the self serving get it off my chest merchants haven't destoyed him forever .
The real venom started when the game was clearly lost. I agree that once it starts there's no way there can be a come back in that game, and I have no doubt the players were humiliated and angry and felt bad. However, that only lasts a day. What needs to happen is that they are drawn together and react. Sullivan said he made the comments he made a few weeks ago to unite the team against the board, this may have the same effect.

However it manifests itself, new tactics, a new sense of purpose, there has to be a reaction because more home performances like that will be met with more derision. They have to know that however much Zola protects them with positives, there is a reality of thousands of supporters out there who feel they are being let down. Mental toughness is a prerequisite of PL survival, if they're destroyed by that then they never had a chance anyway.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by e17 »

durham city hammer wrote:Got to say fair play to franco, i wanted him dropped for mcarthy last night and unfortunately i got my wish, for me he showed more effort and desire in the short time he was on the pitch than mcarthy and quite a few others put together, he seems to be one of only a few players at the club who appreciates the s*** we are in and wants to do something about it!
That number 10 shirt was prominent the moment he got on the pitch & along with Parker, he was the one player calling & offering for the ball.

I understood why a lot of people were really, really angry last night, & why the chants went out like they did, but personally as someone who's been going since I was a nipper & was being dragged along by my old man for games on freezing cold days that were far far worse than that one, I'd never be inclined to join in - So much of our problems seem to stem from a lack of a few things - responsibility, communication & in a major way, confidence - That I just think it's only gonna damage their efforts more - & I didn't see a LACK of effort last night, I saw a team that had no co-ordination, team spirit, tactical planning or confidence - There were 1 or 2 players that I was really really tempted to give stick to last night, for instance McCarthy was utterly woeful IMO, just as bad as Ilan's performance last week, & I literally HATE Upson right now for some reason, really hate him, but I'm of the opinion that booing at half time & at the end is enough to make that point - Don't begrudge those who feel otherwise though, but don't join in & never will.

I'm still a bit shellshocked by last night, TBH - :lol: Had a fair few drinks after the game with me mates in Leytonstone, & yet it was the game that I woke up feeling the most **** about - What you say about mcarthy & Franco is spot on, & Zola must have wondered how on earth he'd got it so wrong too...

It was a shocker for me for another reason though - I've been the same as any fan in the past when stuff has gone wrong under previous managers, got upset when Lyall, Bonzo & :arry: went, sighed & wondered if Pardew was going to relegate us, moaned about Curbs' team performances, kicked the cat a few times under Roeder, but I can honestly say that I've TRIED to stay supportive of all of them, & have appreciated that all of them have had their reasons for the problems at the time - Very rarely have I changed my opinion that, to get rid would only cause more problems - Only at the point of what seemed 'no return' with Roeder after relegation, really..

I've supported Zola from the day he was employed, I think he's a nice guy, & getting rid of him at this point wouldn't help matters enough... Despite the worst set of teams around us in this position I can EVER remember & us still being in it, I don't think a change at this point will make any difference really... Anything could happen between now & the end of the season with any of that lot..

But last night I decided that I don't really want him managing our football club anymore. I can't feign support for him anymore & I think he has utterly lost the dressing room, whether they'd admit it or not. Decisions he made against Chelsea & Arsenal were symbolic of a manager who has lost his ability to manage a team to win a game of football, unlikely against those teams or otherwise, & last night was symbolic of EVERYTHING that has gone wrong this year. I don't think he's cut out to manage at our level & I think we're watching Glen Roeder all over again, & I'm sad to have to say that. :cry:
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by delbert »

speculator wrote:The worst chant for me was 'we want our money back' when we only paid £3.50 to get in it never bothered us but now people feel that in paying high ticket prices they must have a good performance.
A good performance ( or some effort ) helps justify the expense. A poor showing every now and again isn't going to stir the masses into negative action, a near constant dirge will.....
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by issi »

the pink palermo wrote: I know there was venom - I was there and heard it , and FWIW I thought it shattered the teams last remaining vestiges of spirit .Thats my opinion .
I agree it probably did, anyone on here never had a rucking at work making them feel bad ?
At the same time a few of the Wolves players probably felt great .I'm certain their Manager did .

I don't care how many will stay if we go down , I care about us all trying not to go down . Booing , chants about sacking the Manager etc really doesn't help .
Agreed again, you never know they might grow a pair for Saturday, if only to avoid another situation

It isn't Tomkins fault he is being asked to a job 2 years before he's really ready . It isn't Coles fault he is playing whilst not fit and therefore has crap movement , it isn't Spectors fault he is playing in his 4th different position of the season .

These are the players we've got and they are all we've got . Telling them they are crap will not make them play better .
Indeed, just maybe, instead of driving home in their expensive cars to their flash pads that the likes of the most of could only dream of, they might learn from the experience, grow a apir and come back with some conviction, some effort and try to prove those having a go wrong. Thats what professional sports people do, over paid ponces that cry like babies sulk.

We've all seen crap teams and performances over the years at the Boleyn -and whilst last nights performance was dreadful , how do you think Tomkins felt sat alone in the changing room "injured" listening to his mates getting abused and thinking it's all my fault ?

Super f***ing confident about marking Fuller on Saturday ? Possibly not . Lets pray Gabbs is fit and Da Costa is available or we will
be sending out a shell shocked player yet again .
A young man learning his trade, too early maybe. Like I said, professional sportsmen get up and go again. Kids far younger risk their life and witness atrocities on a regular basis, their screw ups costs lives, yet they have it in them to get up and go again, it is what makes them men.

I just hope the self serving get it off my chest merchants haven't destoyed him forever .

The self serving paying punters being provided with a grossly under achieving product ? in what other industry is that acceptable. I do agree with your sentiments, I wil be behind the team from before the start, Those doing these things last dont want to, they dont enjoy it and would rather be supportive, like the whole season so far. It is a two thing, not a one way blind thing.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by Sloop John B »

Wolves mate has just pointed out to me that of the weakened side they fielded at Man Utd and got fined for, 8 of them played the other night and 7 started. :shock:

If I were them I would be looking to get that fine reversed, absolutley ridiculous!!
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

^^^^^

Just posted the same thing on Post Wolves Thoughts thread.

McCarthy was completely unaware of it until the interviewer told him.
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Re: West Ham vs Wolves Match Thread

Post by Posh-Hammer »

On Tuesday I took annual leave from work so could leave P'boro early and avoid getting stuck in the rush hour traffic at the East Ham/Barking roundabout, as I did last season versus Hull, and arrived just in time to see Noble miss his penalty. I guess like you fellas on here, I work hard 9 to 6 every day for about £18,000pa. My dad buys my season ticket for me because at £845 I just couldnt afford to get it myself, what with the petrol money to travel to London. I have been going to West Ham since the early 70's and have never felt so gutted as I did on Tuesday night. Stayed till the end as always and have never seen the ground so empty so early on in a game. I really dont blame the people that left or vented out thier frustrations to the players and Zola. These players earn more in 90 minutes, many double, than I earn in a year, yet Parker and Franco were the only ones who showed they wanted to play for our team, although Faubert did a little more than the rest. The performance was dire and if the only way the paying fans can let thier feelings be known is by booing and chanting then why shouldnt they? How can it erode team spirit when there wasnt any there in the first place. All around me in the East Stand fans were cheering and encouraging these useless doughnuts from the start but as the game progressed and passing and lack of passion grew worse everyone grew more and more frustrated. Poor darlings, how dare the fans be so negative and upset them. What about us, the fans, the only ones who will love this club whatever happens? I agree with those who say CC gives of the aura of being too big for his boots and most definately about Upson who did not one thing as captain to motivate his shambles of a team and was guilty as he has been all season of being one of our worst players on the pitch, constantly leaving the young Tomkins exposed and under pressure. Got home at midnight. Still feel gutted today, but getting ready to do the same thing all over again on Saturday. Heaven help us!
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