West Ham Utd 0 Ipswich Town 1 (27/09/11)
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- smuts
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
How long have we been saying on here that no matter the personnel we end up punting the ball forward to a striker with no one around him as the midfield are too far off him?
3 years plus? Do we not have any coaches over this period (Clarke, Keen, McDonald, the bloke we fired after a few months, etc) who can see this failing?
Yet how many times did Notlob under BFS score against us using a similar tactic? High ball up to Davies, nod down to someone like Nolan, etc to slam it home? I suppose the issue is that Nolan could actually run then..............................
If you are going to play Baldock then tell him to stick within 10 yards of Carew/Cole........sticking him out on the wing is just daft.
Sam is not daft....but we can't rely on bloody corners, OGs and Pens to win every game.
3 years plus? Do we not have any coaches over this period (Clarke, Keen, McDonald, the bloke we fired after a few months, etc) who can see this failing?
Yet how many times did Notlob under BFS score against us using a similar tactic? High ball up to Davies, nod down to someone like Nolan, etc to slam it home? I suppose the issue is that Nolan could actually run then..............................
If you are going to play Baldock then tell him to stick within 10 yards of Carew/Cole........sticking him out on the wing is just daft.
Sam is not daft....but we can't rely on bloody corners, OGs and Pens to win every game.
- Clacton-ammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
A lot of good points on here regarding our midfield, I have just seen enough of us live now to make a more informed conclusion.
Before the start of the season I honestly believed our midfield was the strongest in the division, I thought we would dominate sides. Have I been proved wrong!!
Really feel for Cole presently, as I still believe he can score 20+ this season, but he won't get near it presently with our set up. Travelling up last night I said to the three tractor boys I was with, if this was at Portman Road I would expect at least a draw, I still believe today we will win more points away from home, that calls out very loud that we do not have a proper plan at home.
Bladrick impressed, I feel the lad needs game time and playing in the right areas then our midfield will start to pick him out as we do have ball players in there, and his movement looks positive, this would also help Cole tremendously. Watching the first half hour I was gutted at how poor we were and let them play, everyone knows Jimmy is a quality footballer given time and so we gave him that, shocking really. Once we got closer to him in the second half we looked a better side but lacked any real threat.
Lots of work to do for the home games. The lack of pace is a problem for sure, but if the set up is right we can counteract that, it's just for me currently the tactics for home are wrong.
Watched Nolan again closely, and Lansbury. The Ipswich seemed to really get to Lansbury, he should be better than that. Nolan is a yard off the pace but him as a captain I have no complaints what he brings to the field in regards to talking, chipping away, he just needs to get fit or the system to fit him as he is proven in The PL and Chumpionship, but looks a shadow of himself currently.
All in all, we are very much Work in progress but we still sit 4th, Sam just needs to get hold of them and believe that we are better than most (which we are) of these sides and go on the front foot more.
Before the start of the season I honestly believed our midfield was the strongest in the division, I thought we would dominate sides. Have I been proved wrong!!
Really feel for Cole presently, as I still believe he can score 20+ this season, but he won't get near it presently with our set up. Travelling up last night I said to the three tractor boys I was with, if this was at Portman Road I would expect at least a draw, I still believe today we will win more points away from home, that calls out very loud that we do not have a proper plan at home.
Bladrick impressed, I feel the lad needs game time and playing in the right areas then our midfield will start to pick him out as we do have ball players in there, and his movement looks positive, this would also help Cole tremendously. Watching the first half hour I was gutted at how poor we were and let them play, everyone knows Jimmy is a quality footballer given time and so we gave him that, shocking really. Once we got closer to him in the second half we looked a better side but lacked any real threat.
Lots of work to do for the home games. The lack of pace is a problem for sure, but if the set up is right we can counteract that, it's just for me currently the tactics for home are wrong.
Watched Nolan again closely, and Lansbury. The Ipswich seemed to really get to Lansbury, he should be better than that. Nolan is a yard off the pace but him as a captain I have no complaints what he brings to the field in regards to talking, chipping away, he just needs to get fit or the system to fit him as he is proven in The PL and Chumpionship, but looks a shadow of himself currently.
All in all, we are very much Work in progress but we still sit 4th, Sam just needs to get hold of them and believe that we are better than most (which we are) of these sides and go on the front foot more.
- Bobby Orangeboom
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
It's all about the personnel, all about the Players at your disposal.smuts wrote:How long have we been saying on here that no matter the personnel we end up punting the ball forward to a striker with no one around him as the midfield are too far off him?
3 years plus? Do we not have any coaches over this period (Clarke, Keen, McDonald, the bloke we fired after a few months, etc) who can see this failing?
Yet how many times did Notlob under BFS score against us using a similar tactic? High ball up to Davies, nod down to someone like Nolan, etc to slam it home? I suppose the issue is that Nolan could actually run then..............................
.
It's why in my opinion that this 4-5-1/4-3-3 is ideal for the top Teams but a nightmare for the not so good Teams because the Players just aren't good enough, but like many things in life, it just seems fashionable even though it's clearly not for everyone..
- Bubbles Bob
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Anyone who thinks getting on the back of their own team should read this;
You've had some good results here previously?
Yeah, it's quite strange; when I was manager of Wigan we used to beat West Ham most times here and they always beat us at home so it's a bit strange. But it's a great place to come and play football. It's a lovely stadium, it's a passionate ground. We knew we had to do a job on the crowd first - try and keep the ball and make them impatient. Credit to our players, first half we were terrific.
This is the approach of any visiting side. Stifle the team and wait for the faithfull Westham supporter to stick the knife in. Well done boo boys Jewell and his gang did a job on you.
Even if they're completely **** they should be encouraged. All the criticism makes players afraid of making mistakes and completely stops any creativity. If you don't believe me try it out on your own life. Spend a few weeks booing anyone who doesn't live up to your expectations then spend a few weeks encouraging them to do better and see which approach is better.
You've had some good results here previously?
Yeah, it's quite strange; when I was manager of Wigan we used to beat West Ham most times here and they always beat us at home so it's a bit strange. But it's a great place to come and play football. It's a lovely stadium, it's a passionate ground. We knew we had to do a job on the crowd first - try and keep the ball and make them impatient. Credit to our players, first half we were terrific.
This is the approach of any visiting side. Stifle the team and wait for the faithfull Westham supporter to stick the knife in. Well done boo boys Jewell and his gang did a job on you.
Even if they're completely **** they should be encouraged. All the criticism makes players afraid of making mistakes and completely stops any creativity. If you don't believe me try it out on your own life. Spend a few weeks booing anyone who doesn't live up to your expectations then spend a few weeks encouraging them to do better and see which approach is better.
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Bob
I was a fan of getting BFS in out of those available. However he has had the opportunity to get in players who "fit" his system. And if they didn't then a) why bring them in at all ? b) why not change the system to suit the personnel that you have ?
It's a bit baffling and begins I believe with Nolan. Ink him in and we're fkcued with variations of any kind of formation.
I was a fan of getting BFS in out of those available. However he has had the opportunity to get in players who "fit" his system. And if they didn't then a) why bring them in at all ? b) why not change the system to suit the personnel that you have ?
It's a bit baffling and begins I believe with Nolan. Ink him in and we're fkcued with variations of any kind of formation.
Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Glad that's sorted out then. It's not BFS, Nolan or anyone else in the team. It's all our fault.Bubbles Bob wrote: This is the approach of any visiting side. Stifle the team and wait for the faithfull Westham supporter to stick the knife in. Well done boo boys Jewell and his gang did a job on you.
- DannyboyDJL
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Every manager mentions our fans getting on the players back. This is a big reason why we've been **** at home for years. The same fans that are bitching after our best start for 28 years. You'd think we'd played really good football and won loads over the past 20 years the way some carry on.
Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
He's not............don't forget Free Kicks!!smuts wrote:How long have we been saying on here that no matter the personnel we end up punting the ball forward to a striker with no one around him as the midfield are too far off him?
3 years plus? Do we not have any coaches over this period (Clarke, Keen, McDonald, the bloke we fired after a few months, etc) who can see this failing?
Yet how many times did Notlob under BFS score against us using a similar tactic? High ball up to Davies, nod down to someone like Nolan, etc to slam it home? I suppose the issue is that Nolan could actually run then..............................
If you are going to play Baldock then tell him to stick within 10 yards of Carew/Cole........sticking him out on the wing is just daft.
Sam is not daft....but we can't rely on bloody corners, OGs and Pens to win every game.
- DannyboyDJL
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
The players don't like playing at home. You can quite clearly see that. In away games you get none stop singing and support and the players respond. We think we are a bigger and better club than we are. I thought last season would have brought a reality check, but after the worst season I can remember, we make the best start for 28 years and yet people moan because they want to play pretty football. BFS has somehow managed to replace half the squad and make a good start, but people are miserable. He's done an amazing job. I thought we'd be scraping around near the bottom half somewhere.64misser wrote:Glad that's sorted out then. It's not BFS, Nolan or anyone else in the team. It's all our fault.
- smuts
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Since Zola, every one of our manager must watch footage of players like Henry and Messi cutting in from the wing and plonking it in the top corner, a front three knocking it through a mesmerised defence, etc.........but we just don't have the players (or had the players) to be capable of that.Bobby Orangeboom wrote:It's all about the personnel, all about the Players at your disposal.
It's why in my opinion that this 4-5-1/4-3-3 is ideal for the top Teams but a nightmare for the not so good Teams because the Players just aren't good enough, but like many things in life, it just seems fashionable even though it's clearly not for everyone..
Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
I think it's more cause and effect. Team plays well - cheer. Team plays badly - tell em so. Why not?
I'm not a "boo boy" and don't agree with slagging people continually. But after a while it just gets to you, especially when you see a lack of organisation, commitment and quality on a regular basis.
I can't see the point in wasting money just to moan. But ST holders have a right to demand value for money, and that means the people in the club have to put a shift in or get some stick.
I'm not a "boo boy" and don't agree with slagging people continually. But after a while it just gets to you, especially when you see a lack of organisation, commitment and quality on a regular basis.
I can't see the point in wasting money just to moan. But ST holders have a right to demand value for money, and that means the people in the club have to put a shift in or get some stick.
- the pink palermo
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
You sure about that ?Dannyboylister wrote: The same fans that are bitching after our best start for 28 years. .
2003/4 - had 17 points after 9 games and still in the league cup .
We won the 10th league game as well , and at the time were without a full time Manager .
- Hockley Hammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
When we used to play Sam's teams at the end of a frustrating game you could norrmally say that our keeper and back four had been battered, our midfield couldn't cope with the pressure they were under and our forwards never got a look in.
It is supposed to be Ipswich who feel that way today not us
It is supposed to be Ipswich who feel that way today not us
- Gazzaloz
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Just a few thoughts on last night.
1) If BFS is a statistics man, as has been trotted out so often, does he not look at the 14 or 15 goal kicks/kick outs that went towards the head of Cole and see that he won only two of them, and those headers went into a space entirely devoid of our players?
2) Did he then see that of the 7 or 8 kicks that went to Carew, he won all but one of them... but it made absolutely no difference as still no one was anywhere near his headers?
3) Has he also analysed our number of goals from open play to see how reliant we have become on set pieces? Is that not a concern?
4) As has already been said on here, how did he expect last night four midfielders who either can't tackle or can't get close enough to anyone to tackle, to dominate four mobile midfielders who sprayed the ball about unhindered?
5) Why do neither of our full backs or wide midfielders (or anyone) seem bothered about stopping crosses coming in?
Probably all rhetorical questions.
It's a good job Green, Faye and Tomkins played so well last night or it could have been embarrassing.
1) If BFS is a statistics man, as has been trotted out so often, does he not look at the 14 or 15 goal kicks/kick outs that went towards the head of Cole and see that he won only two of them, and those headers went into a space entirely devoid of our players?
2) Did he then see that of the 7 or 8 kicks that went to Carew, he won all but one of them... but it made absolutely no difference as still no one was anywhere near his headers?
3) Has he also analysed our number of goals from open play to see how reliant we have become on set pieces? Is that not a concern?
4) As has already been said on here, how did he expect last night four midfielders who either can't tackle or can't get close enough to anyone to tackle, to dominate four mobile midfielders who sprayed the ball about unhindered?
5) Why do neither of our full backs or wide midfielders (or anyone) seem bothered about stopping crosses coming in?
Probably all rhetorical questions.
It's a good job Green, Faye and Tomkins played so well last night or it could have been embarrassing.
- Hockley Hammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
It must be old age but all I remember of that season is trying to catch up with the teams above us and never really doing it.the pink palermo wrote:
2003/4 - had 17 points after 9 games and still in the league cup .
We won the 10th league game as well , and at the time were without a full time Manager .
We certainly did not have a squad as good as the one we have now,
Interesting comparison though.
- Gator_Hammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
We had one last year, Jon Spector, but we didn't feel the need to give him a new contract.smuts wrote:
Since Zola, every one of our manager must watch footage of players like Henry and Messi cutting in from the wing and plonking it in the top corner, a front three knocking it through a mesmerised defence, etc.........but we just don't have the players (or had the players) to be capable of that.
- Albie Beck
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Apologies for the deviation, I have put a request in the Memorabilia forum too, but if anyone has an unwanted programme from last night please PM me, happy to cross your palm with some silver. Cheers
Now back to the great debate...
Now back to the great debate...
- w4hammer
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
Dannyboylister wrote:Every manager mentions our fans getting on the players back. This is a big reason why we've been sh*t at home for years. The same fans that are bitching after our best start for 28 years. You'd think we'd played really good football and won loads over the past 20 years the way some carry on.
The fans were great last night and i was there until the end, along with alot of others. Given most of us had sat through 180 minutes of identically insipid and chanceless football, the odd yawn or guffaw at another dog-chasing-the-balloon attempt by players earning £30,40,50 K a week to control a ****ing ball shouldnt be enough to put them off their games, should it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnlSXSQu ... re=related
Last edited by w4hammer on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- HammerMan2004
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
You are welcome to mine mate, it is folded in half from being in my back pocket though. :lol:Albie Beck wrote:Apologies for the deviation, I have put a request in the Memorabilia forum too, but if anyone has an unwanted programme from last night please PM me, happy to cross your palm with some silver. Cheers
Now back to the great debate...
- Yea Why Not
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Re: West Ham v Ipswich match thread
I'm sure we've been better placed than 24th after 9 games beforeDannyboylister wrote: The same fans that are bitching after our best start for 28 years. .