Southampton 1 West Ham Utd 0 (18/10/11)
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- hammer1975
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
[*]Hopefully Sam is still trying to find that magic balance and formula. My concern though is that, like avram before him, he chops and changes to accommodate his favourites. I believe that if you find a winning combo you should stick with it. How many players did qpr or Newcastle use/change each game? From what I remember it was relatively few. Why Sam feels it's right to say on Sunday that players drop themselves then on Tuesday goes on to start Lansbury after three poor games and bring piq on after a year out of form I do not know. I become more convinced by the game that Lansbury unbalances the team (not doubting his talent). There have been numerous comments in this thread about Southampton being used to each others games and therefore having an advantage. How many different midfield combos (and i mean the 5 man midfield including piq and baldock tuesday) have we used already this season?
We may be 2nd but we are 3 points off mid table and, let's be honest, even sam's biggest fan couldn't defend the entertainment on show
I still believe but I'm less convinced as the games come and go of this great 2nd half that some seem to be taking for granted. We look like we may need something different in the window IMO - midfield width and pace
We may be 2nd but we are 3 points off mid table and, let's be honest, even sam's biggest fan couldn't defend the entertainment on show
I still believe but I'm less convinced as the games come and go of this great 2nd half that some seem to be taking for granted. We look like we may need something different in the window IMO - midfield width and pace
- cockney farmer
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
One of Sams strengths is his apparent attention to detail, afterall strikers drop themselves based on Opta and other stat services, therefore couuld I ask someone who can examine these type of stats :
How many times on Tuesday from being in possesion did we give it away . This needs to include misplaced passes, balls into touch and hopeful balls played into opposition areas that went to....the opposition.
A comparison of this V Southampton,s might reveal quite a lot.
It is a genuine enquiry, and not a dig, and if anyone knows how to assess this it might enhance the debate. (And it UTJ is brave enough :lol: at the next press conference he might feel like asking Sam his thoughts on this piece of analysis )
How many times on Tuesday from being in possesion did we give it away . This needs to include misplaced passes, balls into touch and hopeful balls played into opposition areas that went to....the opposition.
A comparison of this V Southampton,s might reveal quite a lot.
It is a genuine enquiry, and not a dig, and if anyone knows how to assess this it might enhance the debate. (And it UTJ is brave enough :lol: at the next press conference he might feel like asking Sam his thoughts on this piece of analysis )
- the pink palermo
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
I kept a consecutive pass count on Tuesday night , and we didn't string more than 4 consecutive passes together until the 38th minute , when the sequence reached 11 , which included 2 headed passes .cockney farmer wrote:How many times on Tuesday from being in possesion did we give it away . This needs to include misplaced passes, balls into touch and hopeful balls played into opposition areas that went to....the opposition.
In fairness Saints were not a whole lot better .
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Surprised your "Are you happy with what you're watching" thread didn't get a massive bump after Tuesday night..
- Matt of iron
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
How did Lansbury play PP cause I've been massively underwhelmed with him.the pink palermo wrote: I kept a consecutive pass count on Tuesday night , and we didn't string more than 4 consecutive passes together until the 38th minute , when the sequence reached 11 , which included 2 headed passes .
In fairness Saints were not a whole lot better .
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
I suspect if we don't take at least 3 points from the next two games we may see it resurrected - which was never the point .The point was to discuss the quality of football on offer as opposed to our points accrual and league position .Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Surprised your "Are you happy with what you're watching" thread didn't get a massive bump after Tuesday night..
- simon1982
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Puff is right, we have been average at best and have failed to beat our main compettion so far this season, if we continue to struggle against our challengers then we will be lucky to scrape play offs. We have good players who should have shown somes of clicking, i don't think it's made easier by BS not knowing his best system/team, i think he has been great for us but he seems a little indecisive, bringing on piq was laughable especially as it was 20 minutes in and he could see how the game was shaping.Faubert's Boot wrote::lol: you're just embarrassing yourself.
There's 34 games left. It's all lovely when we win one and this place is full of optimism for a change, then when we lose one, to a team who have won their last 17 games at home, its the end of the world. Of course it was a bad performance, but you need to look at how southampton tried to nullify the game and look at the chances we missed.
Just want to clarify this, is this the first goal we've conceded from a set piece this season?
I like Diop and Nolan (in the right system), however BS seems to be fitting in lansbury, there is no way he should be in instead of noble, especially a game of that magnitude on Tuesday night, it was a terrible result what ever way you try to dress it up.
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Pinky
Shirley that's the best time to talk about things. We either get over chuffed when we tonk Blackpool thinking the next 38 games are a shoe-in or we get wrist slashingly desperate when losing at Soton.
I would prefer to discuss the overall squad, how we are playing etc. as opposed to wins/losses/league position. Because it is a over reaction in either event.
And contrary to popular opinion, I thought that's what this forum was here for. Great to get a nice run going, but let's all be honest, this squad ain't going anywhere in the PL should we get promoted. Except down again.
Shirley that's the best time to talk about things. We either get over chuffed when we tonk Blackpool thinking the next 38 games are a shoe-in or we get wrist slashingly desperate when losing at Soton.
I would prefer to discuss the overall squad, how we are playing etc. as opposed to wins/losses/league position. Because it is a over reaction in either event.
And contrary to popular opinion, I thought that's what this forum was here for. Great to get a nice run going, but let's all be honest, this squad ain't going anywhere in the PL should we get promoted. Except down again.
- the pink palermo
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Cuenca
I agree . One of my bugbears , and one of my main reasons for being against sacking Managers is the way it robs the club of proper development , and a structured recruitment policy .
For example, Sam has done well to get some decent competition for places given his limited timescale and budget .However, a number of the signings are clearly short term - Diop , Macca, Faye etc , so in a year we are back to square one .
I think your comment on the probable shortcomings of the squad in the event of promotion is valid - but I wouldn't point the finger at the Manager for that .
I posted at length last season on the lack of a long term persepctive with regards to squad building - and here we are , 12 games in and we are talking about the side needing to "gel" .
And we will be this time next season as well, even if we have the same Manager , and are in the same division .
Regular starters this season who I doubt we'll see next - Green, Lansbury, Diop, Macca, Faubert, Faye .Maybe Piq, Cole and Carew to add to that....
Not blaming Sam - his job is to get us promoted .Where though is the long term plan ? Tuesday night we started and played for over an hour without a single home grown player on the pitch .
I agree . One of my bugbears , and one of my main reasons for being against sacking Managers is the way it robs the club of proper development , and a structured recruitment policy .
For example, Sam has done well to get some decent competition for places given his limited timescale and budget .However, a number of the signings are clearly short term - Diop , Macca, Faye etc , so in a year we are back to square one .
I think your comment on the probable shortcomings of the squad in the event of promotion is valid - but I wouldn't point the finger at the Manager for that .
I posted at length last season on the lack of a long term persepctive with regards to squad building - and here we are , 12 games in and we are talking about the side needing to "gel" .
And we will be this time next season as well, even if we have the same Manager , and are in the same division .
Regular starters this season who I doubt we'll see next - Green, Lansbury, Diop, Macca, Faubert, Faye .Maybe Piq, Cole and Carew to add to that....
Not blaming Sam - his job is to get us promoted .Where though is the long term plan ? Tuesday night we started and played for over an hour without a single home grown player on the pitch .
- Puff Daddy
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Thanks mate ~ That about sums that match up and failing to score against them in 90 minutes of football. How can that be explained ? I'm not knocking anybody in particular, this is just merely a comment, but how can any striker not make proper contact with a football when well placed in front of goal, just 6 yards out ? I would have thought it is easier to smack the thing in that situation than scuff it !! and Sam was right in my opinion to critiscise his strikers for that. Failing to make a telling impact in that and other matches too, has to be addressed and the players must stand up and be counted. I don't know what the answer is, apart from grabbing games by the throat from the first miute of a match, something we still don't do and I cannot fathom out why. One to eleven, we have the strongest squad of players of any team in that league and a few results aside, we are on the whole, misfiring. Does anybody disagree with that assessment ?
- hammer1975
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
v southampton lost
piq-nolan-diop-lansbury-baldock
v blackpool won
taylor-nolan-diop-collison
v palace drew
bentley-nolan-diop-lansbury-collison
v ipswich lost
bentley-nolan-noble-lansbury
v peterboro won
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v millwall drew
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v portsmouth won
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v forest won
taylor-nolan-noble-collison-faubert
v leeds drew
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v watford won
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v doncaster won
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v cardiff lost
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-sears
12 games, 8 different midfields
collison - started 6, W4, D2 average points 2.3
lansbury - started 6, W2 , D2 , L2 average points 1.3
how do you like them statistics samuel
piq-nolan-diop-lansbury-baldock
v blackpool won
taylor-nolan-diop-collison
v palace drew
bentley-nolan-diop-lansbury-collison
v ipswich lost
bentley-nolan-noble-lansbury
v peterboro won
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v millwall drew
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v portsmouth won
taylor-nolan-noble-lansbury-faubert
v forest won
taylor-nolan-noble-collison-faubert
v leeds drew
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v watford won
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v doncaster won
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-collison
v cardiff lost
taylor-nolan-noble-parker-sears
12 games, 8 different midfields
collison - started 6, W4, D2 average points 2.3
lansbury - started 6, W2 , D2 , L2 average points 1.3
how do you like them statistics samuel
Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
I was over chuffed when he was appointed and I didn't accept all the "he only plays long ball" comments. But Tuesday night did really look like he'd told them to kick it as far as they could as fast as they could. My suspicion is that he's not quite gone that far but the players aren't good enough to do the long ball thing only when it's appropriate. Even when my holy grail of Joey O at RB and Faubert in front of him on the wing finally got on the pitch, there were several times when the 2 of them were stood there in acres of space, we had the ball, and instead of switching it to them, it was hoofed hopefully towards the box.the pink palermo wrote:Not blaming Sam .
So ... not blaming Sam but I'm starting to think the cynics may have been right.
Still, it's only October. Bit of patience, eh?
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Bolton Lite.
If we are playing like Bolton we need 11 big hoofers.
I would send lansbury back ,and O'brien with Fabert in front of him is the way forward IMO.
If we are playing like Bolton we need 11 big hoofers.
I would send lansbury back ,and O'brien with Fabert in front of him is the way forward IMO.
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Pinky
No blame attached to anyone. Just merely enjoying a conversation over a "beer."
You will have seen my comments to Bobby O. Nolan imvho is a luxury that we cannot afford either in the playing sense or in the out of pocket expenses. 55K on a Fizzy Pop player is ridiculous, maybe PL next year it won't be, but then we'll be paying a 30 year old 55k for the next 3 years. Silly.
However, it is what it is. I don't see how with the team that we have being as unbalanced as it is and the insistence of BFS playing Lansbury and Nolan together it is a recipe imvho for disaster. Both are similar players albeit one (Nolan) plays a bit further up the park than the other (Lansbury). Of course I may be proved wrong, but jelling or not, I can't see it working. I don't see really either that Carew is mobile enough just to play with Nolan "in the hole" behind him, and Nolan certainly isn't mobile enough to get closer to him unless he stations himself there. That's why I think Baldock is a perfect foil for a big man up top. But then you are in effect playing 3 strikers up top, leaving the midfield too empty to compete, that's our 3 against most other team's 5. Small wonder we get over run, even with Lansbury there he doesn't track back either. Same net effect.
------------Almunia------------
Faubert--Reid--Faye----Linda
--------------Diop---------------
Lansbury---------------Taylor
------------Nolan------------
-----Baldock--Carew-------
I take that back.....Only 2 midfield players tracking back, Diop and Taylor ~ the rest sauntering back at their leisure.........Short wonder we couldn't get anything going........
That wouldn't scare me at all. In fact I'd love, absolutely love it..................................
No blame attached to anyone. Just merely enjoying a conversation over a "beer."
You will have seen my comments to Bobby O. Nolan imvho is a luxury that we cannot afford either in the playing sense or in the out of pocket expenses. 55K on a Fizzy Pop player is ridiculous, maybe PL next year it won't be, but then we'll be paying a 30 year old 55k for the next 3 years. Silly.
However, it is what it is. I don't see how with the team that we have being as unbalanced as it is and the insistence of BFS playing Lansbury and Nolan together it is a recipe imvho for disaster. Both are similar players albeit one (Nolan) plays a bit further up the park than the other (Lansbury). Of course I may be proved wrong, but jelling or not, I can't see it working. I don't see really either that Carew is mobile enough just to play with Nolan "in the hole" behind him, and Nolan certainly isn't mobile enough to get closer to him unless he stations himself there. That's why I think Baldock is a perfect foil for a big man up top. But then you are in effect playing 3 strikers up top, leaving the midfield too empty to compete, that's our 3 against most other team's 5. Small wonder we get over run, even with Lansbury there he doesn't track back either. Same net effect.
------------Almunia------------
Faubert--Reid--Faye----Linda
--------------Diop---------------
Lansbury---------------Taylor
------------Nolan------------
-----Baldock--Carew-------
I take that back.....Only 2 midfield players tracking back, Diop and Taylor ~ the rest sauntering back at their leisure.........Short wonder we couldn't get anything going........
That wouldn't scare me at all. In fact I'd love, absolutely love it..................................
- the pink palermo
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Makes sense Cuenca .
We have a good many players who can do 2 of 3 neccesary tasks ok , and not enough who can do 3 out of three .
The selections at times look like someone trying to stick a finger in the dyke, only for a leak to crop up elsewhere.....
It's not all bad though .We are second, have a good chance of being where we need to be to go up , but.........what then ?
Every decision at he club at the moment is short term .
We have a good many players who can do 2 of 3 neccesary tasks ok , and not enough who can do 3 out of three .
The selections at times look like someone trying to stick a finger in the dyke, only for a leak to crop up elsewhere.....
It's not all bad though .We are second, have a good chance of being where we need to be to go up , but.........what then ?
Every decision at he club at the moment is short term .
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
The one combination we have yet to use(until final 20 minutes at Soton) is Dioup with Noble,allowing Nolan to avoid getting too deep (damage limitation,if he must play) with Taylor /Faubert wide.plus two up front. I am convinced this is our best option.
Edit: Home OR Away!
Edit: Home OR Away!
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
Irving
Thought Noble came on for Diop but I might be well wrong.
I have suggested a 4-2-3-1 if Nolan plays and like you, stick him in the middle of the middle 3. That way he can do what he does best. Saunter around looking for the odd goal while not having to defend. Oh and bollock those people who do what he's doing. (Do what I say not what I do as me dear old dad used to say).
Thought Noble came on for Diop but I might be well wrong.
I have suggested a 4-2-3-1 if Nolan plays and like you, stick him in the middle of the middle 3. That way he can do what he does best. Saunter around looking for the odd goal while not having to defend. Oh and bollock those people who do what he's doing. (Do what I say not what I do as me dear old dad used to say).
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Re: Southampton v West Ham Utd: match thread
you cant predict the future without understanding the past...this time last year the table looked like this...
1 Queens Park Rangers 12 28
2 Cardiff City 12 26
3 Watford 12 21
4 Burnley 12 20
5 Norwich City 12 20
6 Swansea City 12 20
Narwich and swansea had already lost 4 games each
1 Southampton 12 26
2 West Ham Utd 12 21
3 Middlesbrough 12 21
4 Derby County 12 21
5 Crystal Palace 12 20
6 Ipswich 12 20
the spread of p[oints 1-6 is two points different- soton opened up a gap tuesday however it could easily have been us getting the draw there.
All toplay for- just need to win brighton and leicester, which i always said we would do :raver:
1 Queens Park Rangers 12 28
2 Cardiff City 12 26
3 Watford 12 21
4 Burnley 12 20
5 Norwich City 12 20
6 Swansea City 12 20
Narwich and swansea had already lost 4 games each
1 Southampton 12 26
2 West Ham Utd 12 21
3 Middlesbrough 12 21
4 Derby County 12 21
5 Crystal Palace 12 20
6 Ipswich 12 20
the spread of p[oints 1-6 is two points different- soton opened up a gap tuesday however it could easily have been us getting the draw there.
All toplay for- just need to win brighton and leicester, which i always said we would do :raver: