Southampton 1 West Ham Utd 0 (18/10/11)

[stormbringer]

After Taylor went of it became a shambles.If Collison had come on and played wide(Piq) was very bad or O'neil on and push Fabert wide as they did later on we could have kept some shape.
Noble was good ,but the whole team did'nt seem to know what they were doing,with all the backs hoofing the ball forward all the time .Lansbury bottling out of challenges.
The Sanits crowd put us to shame noise wise.
Noland another poor game and Reid was bad along with the tactics.
Big Sams target of 2 pts per game is behind after just over a quarter of the season gone .
There are teams queing up behind us so Brighton and every other game is now a must win game if we want automatic promotion.
On the bright side we are second althought we hav'nt looked great all season and the team changes seem to hinder not help ,lets go 3-5-2 and forget one up front .

[Kitt the car]

The Sanits crowd put us to shame noise wise.

Wouldn't say they put us to shame, seeing as it's their ground and they had a considerably larger crowd than us. Were we quieter than normal? Yes, but we still were pretty loud. I work with quiet a few Saints season ticket holders and they were actually impressed with the noise our support made.

What I did admire from them is that all stands got involved with the singing, I presume it helps with the low roof keeping the sound in.

[irving boleyn]

Was Noble not 100% fit?

He must start alongside Dioup regardless of the other midfield selections.

And is Nolan perhaps not fit enough to have two successive good performances. He seemed to have got near his potential on Saturday.

Happy to be second.

The general consensus pre season that we needed to be "thereabouts"by Christmas to push on after the second window.

[Hambrosia Stu]

I'm a tad mystified by the comments of "when we gel", "we aren't playing to our potential yet".

I'm not sure as others that there is any more in the tank.

I would say last night was an illustration of that exact point
The contrast between the 2 sides could not have been a more perfect example

Soton ended last season promoted. They had a settled side with a winning mentality. They obviously had some decent players in their promoted side, as well as those players understanding each other. In that split second that you have to decide whether to play the ball up the inside, or go to the outside, their team had built up those understandings of what the team mate will do at any given point, so can play with a degree of instinct, knowing what their team mates will be doing.
So they started the summer will a well drilled, cohesive side, and added where they felt they needed to improve, to what was an established platform to build from. And last night they showed they are a side who are playing to their maximum potential. Everyone understands the systems, their team mates, the managers instructions. Everything clicks very nicely

We are the opposite of that. At the end of last season we needed to tear it all up, and start again. New manager, new systems, everything started from scratch. Sure, we do still have some players from last season who should know each others games, but they are the minority, and certainly not the spine around which we have only needed to tinker. The majority of our players last night weren't at the club last season. Our squad has had a couple of months to try and quickly understand each other and understand and implement the new managers tactics. Some players have barely featured as yet. The likes of Baldock & Diop, for example, can't possibly have the same level of understanding of what their team mates will do at any given moment as the vast majority of Soton's players do. Our manager can't possibly know his best 11 at this point

We arguably have the best players in the division. The game last night showed we don't have the best "team" in the division. But that's no surprise to me, as it takes time to go from a collection of individual players to an established team, more time than Sam has currently had at West Ham. There is lots of room for improvement in terms of the "team", and I'd expect a slow and steady improvement throughout the season.

I have felt all season that it is logical to expect our best form to come at the end of the season, as by then our squad will have been together for a decent length of time, so will have had a chance to develop the sort of intuiative understandings that are only found in settled, established squads

[saludo de carlitos]

There is no doubt in my mind, we were playing the champions last night, we will be looking at play offs.

[Yea Why Not]

There is no doubt in my mind, we were playing the champions last night, we will be looking at play offs.

:lol: Your joking right?

[cockney farmer]

There is no doubt in my mind, we were playing the champions last night, we will be looking at play offs.

I am not so sure about them being champions just yet due to the number of games still to be played and the fact that a few injuries with a relatively small squad can have a devastating effect. 5 points is a faily good lead but look at the number of times in the next couple of months that we play Sat and then Tue this could change very quickly.

[warp]

We are the opposite of that. At the end of last season we needed to tear it all up, and start again. New manager, new systems, everything started from scratch. Sure, we do still have some players from last season who should know each others games, but they are the minority, and certainly not the spine around which we have only needed to tinker. The majority of our players last night weren't at the club last season. Our squad has had a couple of months to try and quickly understand each other and understand and implement the new managers tactics. Some players have barely featured as yet. The likes of Baldock & Diop, for example, can't possibly have the same level of understanding of what their team mates will do at any given moment as the vast majority of Soton's players do. Our manager can't possibly know his best 11 at this point

We arguably have the best players in the division. The game last night showed we don't have the best "team" in the division. But that's no surprise to me, as it takes time to go from a collection of individual players to an established team, more time than Sam has currently had at West Ham. There is lots of room for improvement in terms of the "team", and I'd expect a slow and steady improvement throughout the season.

it makes sense. but it's hard for the players to improve and get to know each other when the only think you do is long ball to the tall guy.

[chappo59]

I was and still am glad we got BFS as a manager there has already been a massive improvement in all departments of the team & club in general compared to the nightmare of last season. I don't get to many games due to work committments but have got tickets for me & my son for the leicester home game and can't wait to get behind the boys! However I do have one nagging ever increasing concern about our current style of football it seems that a lot of reports I read and hear of the games are saying we are well organised, strong, efficient but rarely say we play good football (apart from in snatches) The worrying part for me is that I listened to the Southampton game last night and it seemed as though they were the team playing football and when teams are not worried about our physical presence and can play football we look vunerable and quickly run out of ideas!!
I don't like the lack of pace in the side & think that leaves us vunerable & also the lack of a flair player in the middle it seems as though BFS doesn't trust them. I'm not a purist and a win is a win but when you dont win and dont play football you can start covering up deficiences by dismissing defeats as "a work in progess" "not our night" etc. I'm not doom & gloom, I'm not anti-Sam but I don't want to see a trend develop where we bully & beat poor teams but keep getting beat by footballing teams that find us out COYI

[stubbsy07]

I've not read much of this thread, but yes we were there in good numbers but our support noise wise was very poor. What is the matter with us? That is two away games now where the atmosphere generated by us away from home is poor, Southampton and Millwall. On top of that, the Southampton support was superb...also putting our home support to shame. We could learn a thing or two of of them and I thought I would never say that!

In terms of the game, again we was poor. In my opinion Southampton throughly deserved the win, not least because they never stopped trying to play football. How many long balls did we play? It was actually quite laughable IMO. Reid and Faye never even attempted to play out from the back all night long and that can only be down the intructions given to them by the manager. The decision to bring Piquionne on was a poor one in my opinion.

I also felt very sorry for Sam Baldock, again he was lively and worked his b*llocks off but a few times he was in our box trying to put blocks in!! What is that about? We finally find a striker who has movement, pace and can finish and we stick him out on the right or left (they interchanged most of the game) in a 4-5-1 and ask him to track back and do his defensive stuff. No wonder why Mackail-Smith chose to join Brighton. Don't get me wrong, as they were interchanging he also had his time as the centre forward but when he did Carew went out on the left!! I just think Sam got it wrong.

Oh and Lansbury was toilet. Again.


Positives were: Baldock, Noble when he came on and the fact that we are somehow still second.

Yes Southampton are top of the league, but I thought they outplayed us. We have better players than them and a wage bill that is about 3x higher. Yet Adkins has got them playing the right way and they are reaping the rewards. Fair play to them. Until we realise that we have good enough players to play some football aswell and keep possession I've got a feeling there will be a few more performances like this.

Oh and Richard Chaplow looked twice the player of our 50K a week captain.

Bring on Brighton!!

[GreenIron]

There is no doubt in my mind, we were playing the champions last night, we will be looking at play offs.

It pains me to say it but my previous optimism is fading and I think you may be right about the first bit. Coming away last night, I thought first and second now will be first and second at the end of the season.

But after a good night's sleep I reckon there's still a chance that we can only improve while Southampton can only get worse. Somebody is this thread said they're not Barcelona. Well, no, they're not but they did try to play nice passing football much of the time and were actually pretty good at it - unlike us who rarely even tried.

[Chelmo Hammer]

This is much more like it - a cracking win followed by a disappointing defeat - at least the wins are more frequent this season.

[dimagician10]

Not at our best this evening .

... but overall we lacked energy in midfield .

We were poor on the night, they were not much better, and for me, never mind respect the point, respecting possession may be a better place to start .For a top of the table clash , their wasn''t much quality on display from either side .

Having said all of that , we remain in second place .

Pinky, do you think that the team try to press more than in the previous few seasons? Sam stated about fitness levels at the club pre season and we are of course now without our former no.8 who was relied on to do so much work.

Possession wise, there are players at this club that should be able to pass the ball about but seem not able to combine it with movement required to make space in congested areas. Added with their increased defensive duties and the quality does seem to go down.

It is a 1-0 defeat at the top team's place. We're still second place with over 30 games of the season to go. 100 pts & 100 goals should do it still!

[steptoe61]

We were never going to go unbeaten away from home all season,first away defeat get over it.
We are still up there despite playing some pretty average football
Everyones slipping up, no one can predict this league
Apart from not playing our free flowing attacking football which we are renowned for i cant really grumble
The piss poor finishing must be improved though.

[last.caress]

There is no doubt in my mind, we were playing the champions last night, we will be looking at play offs.

They thoroughly deserve to be where they are right now, and ****ing good luck to them. But I don't believe that it will last. I hope they go up with us (don't care in what order that is, as long as we're in the top two), but I don't think they will. And I still believe that we WILL finish top two, and probably as champions.

[Hambrosia Stu]

it makes sense. but it's hard for the players to improve and get to know each other when the only think you do is long ball to the tall guy.

'tis a fair point

I guess on one hand it's a bit much to expect a group of players who are only getting to know each other to be able to read each other intuitively and play a quick passing game with almost telepathic understandings from the off. So it is understandable if we go "direct" when things get tight, at times, at this point of the season, and hope as the season progresses we'll develop to where we don't need to go long so often as there are better options available

It's when the long hoof is plan A that it becomes unacceptable

It did sound last night, on the radio, as though we were trying to get the ball into the box at the earliest opportunity, regardless of what other options there were.
Steve Claridge was whining like a girl at how we were just lumping it forwards, when we had options to bring the ball forwards into more dangerous areas. He had a right go at Macca at one point for just pumping the ball into the box from near the halfway line when he had 40 yards in front of him in which he could have brought the ball down the flank
I guess as a striker he found it frustrating being able to see how we were ignoring opportunities to get into good areas which we could then deliver the ball into the box, and instead were choosing to deliver it early from a less favourable position

[Yea Why Not]

I didn't go to the game last night but I guess it was another case of Nolan barking out the orders while the ball flew over his head

[Westbourne Bill]

Well on the positive side Allardyce has made us a dogged side away from home and the loss of a goal from a set-piece is thankfully not that common. That said, in contrast to the game at Palace there was there was again a tendency to follow any passing with the hopeful long ball or a poor long diagonal cross. It may work against the bottom half sides but against sides that are as solid as Saints a bit more guile is going to be need in my opinion.

There was only one side trying to play decent football last night, and it wasn't West Ham. 17 consecutive home wins for them now...I'd be surprised if we manage to overtake them.

[I've got curly hair too]

judt got back and not going to go into in depth, performance, tactics etc, but Big Sam has got to grow some balls and get the courage to bring of Nolan if he's not doing it. Diop was miles more effective

[the pink palermo]

Pinky, do you think that the team try to press more than in the previous few seasons? Sam stated about fitness levels at the club pre season and we are of course now without our former no.8 who was relied on to do so much work.

I wasn't just referring to our pressing, it was a lack of movement when we had the ball .I'm trying hard not to focus in on just the skipper as his shortcomings have been covered amply already this season - as have his attributes .Henri Lansbury had plenty of energy but no vision for a pass imo, Noble is one paced , but has the vision - or at least tries to look up , Nolan has good positional discipline , but not the legs and lungs,Taylor can hit a great deadball, but lacks pace, Faubert has some pace , but isn't great positionally, Diop is solid and his height gives us something extra ..............in other words we have a team filled with bit's and pieces players .Other sides will be as well but because we don't watch them every week we don't see their flaws the way we do in our own players .

It may have escaped people's attention but until Noble came on we didn't have a single home produced player on the park last night .

Sam is still trying to get his best combination in midfield, but for me the most pressing issue is the lack of movement in midfield .The CB's are simply bypassing the midfield and launching it forward , surrendering possession too easily .

We lack a midfield tickover player .Take the ball , move it on, take it back, move it on, take it back, move it on..........retaining possession , strangling the opposition by not giving them the ball .