West Ham Utd 2 Nottingham Forest 1 (21/01/12)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

bubbles1966 wrote: - but at the heart of the team we are having to play three in central midfield because to take any one of them out of the team leaves us wholly inadequate.

Diop - will stop attacks - control, passing and scoring pretty mediocre
Nolan - can score goals - passing, athleticism pretty mediocre
Noble - can pass - defending and goalscoring mediocre...

We may well need a completely new central midfield next season in the PL if people envisage flying wingers and 4-4-2 because the 3 individuals in midfield all have one major strength each but a number of other inadequacies.
Yes, Bubbles , I'm inclined to agree , but I admit I am a little one eyed when it comes to Noble .I have seen him play the DM role Diop is playing , and do it well , once . Away at Pompey2 years ago .I think Diop gets the nod due to his height in that role .

FWIW, I'd get rid of Nolan , and play Noble deep, focussing on attacking the opposition rather than worrying too much about defending .We would of course need 2 decent fullbacks and 2 players wide midfield with pace and energy .In short I would build the team around Noble , Sam has built it around Nolan .

A 4-2-3-1 shape with Diop and Noble ( or, as I would prefer , Noble and De Jong :lol: ), with Faubert one side , Baldock the other, Cole up top might work with Hall as the middle of the three .

I just cannot see a place for Kevin Nolan ,can't move, tackle or pass ..... as for all the stuff on Captaincy and leadership ......well it's a long way from Bonds or Martin is all I'll say .
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Bobby Orangeboom »

Romford wrote:
So you keep saying...you also said we have the best defence in the league.2 stats

If so...why do we have to play SO defensively ??

Surely you could take a few risks attacking wise knowing that your "best defence in the league" will stand strong.

You must also question how a team top of the league has SO little confidence.

Maybe there might be something in what some of us are saying mate ?
Chaz, i'm not saying anything, i don't really have an opinion on none of this to be perfectly honest, i'm just telling people who do have an opinion what the truth of it is, away from their opinion that all is so dreadful.

For the people who say Nolan does **** all, i'll say he's the first decent Captain we've had in years, is second top goalscorer from midfield and has had more shots than anybody else.

For the people that say we're defensively ****, i say we have conceded less goals than any other team in the league.

For the people that say Allardyce is boring and we need width, i say he bought Taylor almost immediately & brought in someone else the other side to provide the width there in what was Plan A but both got injured, we're now doing Plan B unfortunately, but it's working and we're on course for promotion as we're top of the league.

I'm trying to keep my opinion on all this out of it, because i'm a million miles away from home & have only seen 3 games all season with the rest being on sh*t streams and the radio, but what i won't do is sit back & read people's opinion that are at best wrong without actually saying things for what they really are.

Opinions are like ar*eholes ain't they you know that, i just don't think it's right that people's opinions be one thing, when the truth is something every different.

Give me a stat though Mate which is truthful, over 99% of the people's opinions on here any day of the week, because i know what one would be closer to the truth. :thup:
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by carnage »

Bubbles
I think that is pretty much right but I don't think he has much confidence in the defenders( our fullbacks are not great)and the strike force rather than a lack of confidence in the midfield.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Turns to Stone »

I never really understand what Kevin Nolan's wages have to do with anything.

My two thoughts on Nolan are that a) If he'd taken all the gilt-edged chances that he's had this season, we'd be more than 3 points clear today and b) The fact that he makes so many gilt-edged chances for himself is a very, very positive thing.

Again though, like me and Romford always say :wink: I think Nolan's less of a problem than our lack of width. In fact, I think 1 decent winger would help Collison, Lansbury, Noble, Nolan and Baldock all look like much better players.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by bristolhammerfc »

TTS,

Nolans wages and fee are an issue for me as it was all our transfer budget. It is probably restricting our options now (if you listen to KB)

It means that he has to justify that
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by carnage »

Nolans fee and wages are not his fault and should not be used as a stick to beat him with. We have far bigger problems player wise than Nolan.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by bristolhammerfc »

Didn't say it was his fault, but no one asked to accept it or send us emails telling us how great we will be.

How did he play yesterday?
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

carnage wrote:Nolans fee and wages are not his fault and should not be used as a stick to beat him with. We have far bigger problems player wise than Nolan.
You're right that they are not his fault , anymore than Dyers were for him , or Freddies for him .

Players take what they are offered .

He does use up substantial amounts of the Managers budget though , and it's for him I have less sympathy when he is calling for reinforcements .That's the problem with money , you cannot spend it twice .In fairness to Sam, he lost Bentley who was in the budget , but has chosen to replace him with a CB from the states .

At what point is a Manager told enough ?

Anyway with any luck we'll sell him to Bolton or Wolves in the summer to help them regain PL status .
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Turns to Stone »

bristolhammerfc wrote:Didn't say it was his fault, but no one asked to accept it or send us emails telling us how great we will be.

How did he play yesterday?
I thought he was poor yesterday. Funnily enough, the more I see of him, the more I think that he's probably a player better suited to the Premier League. He's only going to be 30 next year, and I think his ability to get into goal scoring positions next year will be invaluable.

I think if he helps us get promoted this season (which he is doing) and helps us stay up next year, then he will have been more than worth the money spent. The team that I watched yesterday is lacking three things in my opinion. A fit Matt Taylor, a properly fit Carlton Cole and some pace down the right-hand side.

Get those 3 things sorted out. Strengthen in the summer, and I actually think we'd not only be ok next year, but would be a hell of a lot prettier to watch. But all the time in this league everything breaks down on the flanks. It reminds me of last season when we would have Gabbidon or TBH at left-back, and everytime the ball forward, and it was just crying out for a player to make an overlapping run and get a ball in, Gabbs would turn back and play the ball back inside again and again everything would have to slow down.

As for the e-mails, well I prefer Nolan's to Upson's.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Up the Junction »

Post-match pressers both now up:

Steve Cotterill: http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=125947" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sam Allardyce: http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=125948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Romford »

Bobby Orangeboom wrote:
Give me a stat though Mate which is truthful, over 99% of the people's opinions on here any day of the week, because i know what one would be closer to the truth. :thup:
Arsenal have now let in 7 goals at home this season...yet everyone will tell you they are cack at the back.

Stats do not always tell the truth.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Turns to Stone »

Romford wrote: Arsenal have now let in 7 goals at home this season...yet everyone will tell you they are cack at the back.

Stats do not always tell the truth.
To me though, that backs up Bobby's point. Arsenal can't be that cack at the back...at least not at home anyway?

Therefore people's opinion's are just that - opinion. The fact is that Arsenal have a better defence than people give them credit for.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Romford »

Turns to Stone wrote: To me though, that backs up Bobby's point. Arsenal can't be that cack at the back...at least not at home anyway?

Therefore people's opinion's are just that - opinion. The fact is that Arsenal have a better defence than people give them credit for.
I disagree (not surprisingly)

Arsenal are awful at the back...and its only that they get the benefit of the doubt from the refs that they get away with an awful lot.

How many fouls has that Song done today so far ???

That German Beanpole...what is he all about ??

Djourou....what a liabity.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Turns to Stone wrote: To me though, that backs up Bobby's point. Arsenal can't be that cack at the back...at least not at home anyway?

Therefore people's opinion's are just that - opinion. The fact is that Arsenal have a better defence than people give them credit for.
I don't agree , and I'm with Romford on this one .

At the Emirates, many sides are reluctant to attack Arsenal due to their reputation for moving the ball quickly from back to front .They are scared of getting caught , so effectively park the bus .

Away from the Emirates, other teams will have a pop .......which is why Arsenal concede more on the road than any bottom 3 side .

In short, Arsenal are cack at the back, but at the Emirates other sides don't exploit it .
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by Turns to Stone »

I see your point obviously, and I would also say the fact that all top 5 or 6 teams in the league are going to have decent defensive records because they tend to win most of their home games.

The point I'm making is that Bobby's right, if you asked me before that stat how many goals did I think Arsenal had conceded at home this season, I'd probably have guessed 10 or 11.

Therefore my perception is different to the truth.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by miles »

bubbles1966 wrote: we are having to play three in central midfield because to take any one of them out of the team leaves us wholly inadequate.

Diop - will stop attacks - control, passing and scoring pretty mediocre
Nolan - can score goals - passing, athleticism pretty mediocre
Noble - can pass - defending and goalscoring mediocre...
He'd pick 3 in the centre even if we had Toure, De Jong and Essien in the squad. All to do with suffocating the opposition "tactically", nowt to do with any perceived inadequacies in our midfield players I would wager.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by carnage »

I agree about Arsenal, but it's the fact they have so much posession at The Emirates that their defensive record is so good there, not because of teams parking the bus.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by whufc32 »

What shocks me and has done for the past few seasons since i have noticed it is that Arsenal sinply cannot cope with long balls over the top of their central defenders they are exposed on so many occasions to this and yet it baffles me why teams are not set up to do just that.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by PrinceH »

Double, sorry.
Last edited by PrinceH on Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham v Nottingham Forest match thread

Post by PrinceH »

Bring in energy!
Hall showed it yesterday!
Montano can give the width and pace everyone is shouting for.
Why let Spence rot in Bristol? He won't do any worse than Faubert or JOB.

Their energy will give the old players a kick in the back!
If not played every week I think they are needed right now. (and won't cost us à penny. Sort of)

Repeating myself a bit, but as long as Sam hardly dare to use our Academy, I'd continue. Rather have Nouble on the bench than Carew or Piq. Could have used Stanislas on the flank now as well.
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