Leeds Utd 1 West Ham Utd 1 (17/03/12)

[bubbles1966]

What I meant Bubs was that people can't judge how the team play on a particular day by reference to how other teams have played that same day.

For instance, reading back through this thread when Soton were winning and we were drawing then we were generally considered to be playing ok. Then when Soton drew level then took the lead whilst we conceded, suddenly we were playing crap.

Posters should judge the performance, for better or worse, on our performance not on others.

That's fair enough

[Cardiff here we come.....]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you post vitriolic abuse of Alan Curbishley from the day he came here to months after he left that would put any of the abuse of Allardyce in this thread to shame?

You are wrong

I don't know how to put this another way.Ok.Say you were on your knees financially.You had a wife,2 kids & debt up to your eyeballs.You were on the brink of losing everything & along comes your brother to add to your misery,by sueing you for not paying him his monthly pay for 2 months(your brother works for you)..Ok you with me so far??

Now,what would you think of your brother??(yes he has a right to his money,but its your brother & your in serious trouble financially)You havent a 'pot to piss in' & your totally broke,& along comes your brother to add to your misery....

This scenario IMO is just like what Curbs did to West Ham.West Ham United as a football club was on the brink of going out of business.A so called West Ham man & ex-player of the club decides to sue the club when it was on the brink of going out of business.Without his 2 million compo,AC is a millionaire in his own right,did he seriously have to go down this route,to a club he suppose to love??The day he did that,my respect of AC as a man was gone.

Anyway back to your point SITM over the past 7 years of joining KUMB i have backed 4 out of the 5 managers in this time.(I even backed up Avram Grant (**I know I was wrong**)

Pardew,Zola & Allardyce i backed every single one.My problem with AC pre-sueing West Ham was:

1/I belived that it was a backward step for the club.IMO AC who football beliefs/style was something from the dark ages.Couldnt stand the football played under his leadership

2/His overall signings.We can all pick out the Bellamys & Parkers as being good players but what about the young players from lower leagues,that could grow together as a team & be a force over the next 10 years.What a about some quality players from Holland,Germany,Belgium..Curbs just picked out 'named' players & bought them..And even with them his overall track record with them were awful Faubert,Dyer,Quashie etc etc...(Curbs was given the biggest transfer kitty in the clubs history 50m & all in all wasted the majority of it)

Scaloni,so to 'pigeon-hole' me as as someone abusing managers left,right & centre is totally wrong.As I said I backed up four our of the last 5 managers & generally back up my disagreements with a bit of discussion.(If I have the time)

I honestly hate all this slagging off managers after such a short time & I back Allardyce 100% to get us promotion.(If not this season,then defo next season.)

[smuts]

Has to be said....how different would the Curbs era have been if we had Ashton, Bellamy fit, Etherington with his head on the pitch and not in the bookies, etc.

I seem to remember Cole having to be on his own up front for long periods while led to a lot of the dis-satisfaction.

[sendô]

A point away at Leeds is a decent enough result. It's unfortunate that Reading seem to be unstoppable and the p***** couldn't hold Southampton.

We're not out of it yet but we need to start scoring goals.

[smuts]

Smuts - you make some fair points that you express eloquently and I don't for one second believe that anyone is lumping you in with the handful of idiots who have neither the intelligence nor wit to post anything more substantial than '<player x> is ******* ****', 'Zola/Grant/Allardyce etc OUT!!!'

Thank god for that.... :lol:

[Scaloni Is The Messiah]

So to clarify Cardiff, when you don't like a manager's style of play or decision-making, it's fair game to slag them off, but if someone else doesn't like a manager's style of play or decision-making, they're the 'new breed' of fan with no loyalty who should go and support Chelsea?

You can understand why it's confusing, I'm sure...

I certainly wasn't pigeon-holing you. Just pointing out people dislike managers and their methods for various reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean they lack loyalty or don't understand football. We all want and expect different things from being a fan. I never wanted Allardyce. While we were in the top two, I could grit my teeth and see it was an ugly means to an end. Now it's looking increasingly like we're going to fall short, it feels like we've lost another chunk of the club for no return. I would much, much rather stay down in the Championship and regain some of what makes us special than go back up and play more football like this.

[like_my_dreams]

More than happy with a point from yesterday - I think if you'd have asked anyone at the start of the season if they'd be happy with a point away at Leeds in mid March, we'd all have said yes. Ok, the preceding performances have been poor, hence the knee jerk reaction from a sizeable number of supporters, but a point at Leeds is exactly that, and creditable.

Yesterday was what supporting West Ham is all about for me. I now live up north, so don't get to home games, but I do a good number of away games. The crowd (and I give Leeds some reluctant credit here because they helped create a hostile atmosphere) was brilliant. Apart from some quiet moments, early in the second half, the noise was great. I don't think the OB and stewards would have been so pumped up for the visit of the majority of away teams. I was 4 rows back, on the aisle, for the grief they gave to the young kid, and it was all a touch unnecessary (ok, well OTT) but almost expected given the atmosphere. And the response, the noise and the atmosphere this immediately generated was intense. The kid made an unexpected appearance down the aisle when we scored, but was smuggled away by some savvy punters before the OB were able to whisk him off for a likely roughing up. Now I'm not saying trouble is good, far from it, but a hostile and bubbling atmosphere is what its all about. I'm betting this rubbed off on the players as well, what a spirited last ten minutes culminating in a deserved equaliser - cue complete mayhem!!!

So, does this atmosphere exist in the Prem, other than a small handful of games? In an ideal world, devoid of financial worries, I sometimes think I'd take days like this over middle table safety in the Prem...

[Cardiff here we come.....]

I never wanted Allardyce. While we were in the top two, I could grit my teeth and see it was an ugly means to an end. Now it's looking increasingly like we're going to fall short, it feels like we've lost another chunk of the club for no return. I would much, much rather stay down in the Championship and regain some of what makes us special than go back up and play more football like this.

You honestly think the football is worse now than it was under Curbs?Really

Scaloni,you got to take into consideration that SA has been West Ham boss for 9 months & has had to rebuild a side playerwise & confidence wise.IMO we've played some good stuff,especially away from home(forest,blackpool,cardiff).If someone said to you we'd be 3rd in march,game in hand,4pts from top,wouldnt you have snapped their hand off??

Thats where we disagree Scaloni,I want us to go up playing brillant football buts its going up thats most important imo.Dont kid yourself that Southampton & Reading are playing 'total football'.Their players dont give a flying f*ck as long as they go up.(look at the disgraceful diving/cheating when Saints came to Upton Park).

Am I missing something?Has the football been that bad?(overall,not individual games).

[devonshire flu]

Am I missing something?Has the football been that bad?(overall,not individual games).

Yes, it has been that bad.

[Bobby Orangeboom]

We are talking about a diamond rather than a flat 4-4-2.

Top of my head, I can't remember us playing it - and I can't rmember a 4-4-2 that didn't include Nolan AND Noble in the middle

I know you are, that's why i said don't bother replying to your Pal's inaccurate nonsense..

Coventry at Home.

[DaveWHU1964]

There is definitely a difference between the way many old school supporters react compared to the newer breed. That's generalising and ageist I know but hey-ho.

Teams do not walk out of this division easily- only once have I seen us do it, back in 1981, but football was different then- no way could we have kept that team together nowadays after a relegation.

No, more often it's been a grind to get out of this league fought by teams much of a muchness to us. About 20 years ago just like now, a south coast side with a striker on fire looked like they were going to pip us for promotion, but they didn't. Twists and turns that year. They will happen this year too.

But even if we stay down, then that is football. What always made our fans stand out from other teams was our supreme loyalty to those employed by the club. Which takes me back full circle to my original point- most old school supporters are capable of moaning like drains but still manage to retain that loyalty gene. I think the atmosphere at UP would be more conducive to helping our team get promoted if more supporters were built this way.

[Tophammer]

Definatly alot of old faces there yesturday, had a cracking day.

[simon1982]

I'm gradually reaching the conclusion that the diamond is our best bet with the currently fit players (especially at home).

Any pairing of Cole, Baldock and Maynard up front - but they must work their balls off Bellamy style.

Tomkins=Parker.
Noble or Nolan = Noble
Collison = Collison
Taylor - Behrami but with the ability to pass and shoot.

A diamond is 100% the way and has been for some time! Noble (Passing)/diop (destroyer)/collison (link play)/lansbury(work rate - box to box) would be my choice but it won't happen.
Tomkins is our best defender, leave him at the back. IMO Taylor is a decent set piece taker and that's it. He is another one who holds us back in an attacking sense. At the moment we are to easy to defend against.

[Scaloni Is The Messiah]

Yeah, I think it's been worse than under Curbs. Much worse actually. Even the games I've seen us win comfortably have been horrible to watch for the most part. I've never seen us anywhere near this lacking in invention. Certainly we were never close to it under Curbishley, during whose tenure we had several exciting attacking players who looked like they were capable of doing something with the ball when they had it.

I think we have easily the best resources in this league, which is mostly thanks to Gold and Sullivan risking a lot of their money and our future to get us that. So no, I wouldn't have snapped anybody's hand off for 3rd place at this stage. On paper, we should be in the top two. Sam is considerably short of the target he set himself of two points a game on average.

I know this league is difficult, and I didn't expect promotion to be easy or for us to be playing brilliant football. But at the moment, we barely even qualify as a football team. What passing moves we do put together just end up with one of our defence panicking under pressure (or not even under pressure), passing it back to Green and Green pumping it 80 yards to our striker on his own. That's what's happening ever minute of every game at the moment. I don't care if we win the Champions League doing that - I will get no satisfaction from it. We are better than at least 90% of teams in this league. I do not buy for one second this is our only option, or even the best option, to get back up.

I feel like our midfield serves two purposes at the moment. To try and win the ball back when the opposition push out on the floor and to pick up whatever scraps our forwards can fluke their way. Under Curbishley, we at least had a midfield that tried to be creative and carry the ball from time to time. As I say, I've never known us play the game quite as clinically and unambitiously as we have for the majority of this season.

[Up the Junction]

There is definitely a difference between the way many old school supporters react compared to the newer breed. That's generalising and ageist I know but hey-ho.

There's also a marked difference when those who've actually been to the game get home and start posting, Dave; this thread being the perfect example.

Anyway ... time to draw a line under it, I think and look forward to Tuesday night - when EVERYONE needs to get behind the boys.

[Suffolk Iron]

Definatly alot of old faces there yesturday, thats what away games are all about.

Not sure about being called an old face,, took exception to that, then I looked into mirror and wondered why my Dad was in my bathroom. Thanks Tophammer, you've bu@@ered up my day

[DaveWHU1964]

I agree 100% UTJ.

[Up the Junction]

James May's match report:

http://www.kumb.com/report.php?id=101190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Major]

Just in case you were worried about me I git home safe. And i did get a runny Egg......

Dave / UTJ, bang on the money.

We will win by 2 clear goals on Tuesday the old girl in Leeds said so.

[Devs Hampton]

For what ever its worth I have never ever been of the opinion we will finish in an automatic place. The whole season for me has been a disguise of how poor we have been and I guess will continue to be. I posted weeks ago I felt that our league positon was far more a reflection of other clubs deficiences rather than our own achievements. It appears a number of those clubs have addressed their deficiences and have caught and/or passed us while we stumble along veering from quite good to absolutely dire. Dont get me wrong, I think SA has done a sterling job in reversing our "lose at any cost" mind set from the Jewish Buddah's era and yes, last season we would not have salvaged a point at Elland Road in the same circumstances, but I do not believe it is enough. I have seen some of our poorest performances I can recall (which I mean relevant to the mediocre quality of the opposition in this division) and tactically we seem to shoot ourselves in the foot at any opportunity. I will jump about like a crazy loon with everyone else if we somehow get promoted of course! TID