West Ham Utd 3 Birmingham City 3 (09/04/12)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Heart0fIron on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:42 am

Yep, it seems to me Sam opening with an attacking formation and 2 strikers to get the fans going, and for the first 20mins we dominated without taking advantage. Unfortunately we're at that stage in the season where these individual errors cost us hugely and in this case have meant that we take 1 point instead of 3.

Interesting how no one criticises hoofing it in the box when it's looking effective.

Whether we get promoted or not, having better wide players and some kind of midfield magician (Morrison?) will make all the difference in breaking teams down at home and I'm sure Sam will be looking to strengthen these areas.

Also it would be great to have a DM with good distribution. Maybe a cheeky bid for Schweinsteiger? :think:
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby upton o'good on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:27 am

Romford wrote:Am i the only person who believes in not changing a winning team ?


To bwe fair that didnt work terribly well for us after the fine away performance at Blackpool. (And we had more recovery time after that match).

Also think Allardyce's hand may have been forced a bit by problems at right back. Demel anonymous at barnsley , and had to be subbed. And at home the expectations on a full back to get fwd are higher...
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby hongkonghammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:40 am

can't agree with you swash. i think the last few games have proved we are good enough to pass away out of the division. the problems come from try to play in the wrong areas. First two goals came from full backs playing balls into tight areas and across the defence, as soon as they are intercepted oppostion is straight on the centre half if yo uare playing a high line as we were vs Brum then the fall backs have to play accordingly and choose safe options, even if that means sometime hit balls into space down the line.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby beckton on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:50 am

upton o'good wrote:Also think Allardyce's hand may have been forced a bit by problems at right back. Demel anonymous at barnsley , and had to be subbed. And at home the expectations on a full back to get fwd are higher...



I can't believe Allardyce picked Tomkins with expectation of him getting forward better then Demel, that's just not his game at all.

I'm convinced we started with that back 4 from the defenders available to counter Zigic.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Yea Why Not on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:54 am

beckton wrote:
I can't believe Allardyce picked Tomkins with expectation of him getting forward better then Demel, that's just not his game at all.

I'm convinced we started with that back 4 from the defenders available to counter Zigic.


Another thing that got me.... from a losing position with Taylor on the bench Sam decides to replace McCartney with Danny Collins

Tomkins should play center half and only center half. He isn't a good enough 'footballer' to play anywhere else
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Romford on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:55 am

upton o'good wrote:
To bwe fair that didnt work terribly well for us after the fine away performance at Blackpool. (And we had more recovery time after that match).

Also think Allardyce's hand may have been forced a bit by problems at right back. Demel anonymous at barnsley , and had to be subbed. And at home the expectations on a full back to get fwd are higher...


You have a point there RE Blackpool...

Doesn't Winston Reid play at RB for his national team ?

Why play Tomkins there...
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby EastleighHammer16 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:56 am

beckton wrote:I can't believe Allardyce picked Tomkins with expectation of him getting forward better then Demel, that's just not his game at all.

I'm convinced we started with that back 4 from the defenders available to counter Zigic.

Demel has been injured for months, do you honestly believe he was going to be able to start 2 games in 4 days?
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby beckton on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:03 am

EastleighHammer16 wrote:Demel has been injured for months, do you honestly believe he was going to be able to start 2 games in 4 days?



I don't know but I didn't say he could.

I replied to someone suggesting that Tomkins was selected ahead of Demel as he would get forward better.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby EastleighHammer16 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:07 am

beckton wrote:I don't know but I didn't say he could.

I replied to someone suggesting that Tomkins was selected ahead of Demel as he would get forward better.

Apologies :thup:
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Sloop John B on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:08 am

Romford wrote:You have a point there RE Blackpool...

Doesn't Winston Reid play at RB for his national team ?

Why play Tomkins there...


One of the CB's had to goto RB, Tomkins looks the most comfortable on the ball so maybe that's why, leaves your two more physical 'blockers' in the middle. Collins over Taylor?? Again bit strange...Collins more pace than Taylor??
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Aceface on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:13 am

Romford wrote:You have a point there RE Blackpool...

Doesn't Winston Reid play at RB for his national team ?

Why play Tomkins there...


Don't know what they've done recently, but in the World Cup NZ used 3 CBs across the back - Ryan Nelsen in the middle with Reid and Tommy Smith from Ipswich on either side of him. So not really a true right back at all. But probably why Avram decided to commit the first of his many pieces of managerial malpractice last season and throw him in at RB against a marauding Young and Downing on his prem debut and wreck his confidence for the next six months..
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby upton o'good on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:41 am

Romford wrote:Am i the only person who believes in not changing a winning team ?


repeat post
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby hadleighhammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:02 pm

beckton wrote:I'm convinced we started with that back 4 from the defenders available to counter Zigic.


Said exactly the same. Was also a tactic Grant tried....
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby taffhammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:06 pm

swash wrote:To me, the first half finally proved the problem Allardyce has got.

The fans want the players to get the ball down and pass it, Alardyce knows they are not good enough to play that way.



I think you under estimate the level these players are at, of course they can pass the ball about. The problem is the pace of the game they adopt when passing it around.When away we play it the perfect way, the home team have to try and take the initiative and that suits a slower pace from us as we don't need to be quick to hit them on the break .Also we can wear them down by keeping the ball.Which we do perfectly.
At home the problem is we play the same way,which with most teams playing with 5 in the midfield and sitting back means they are hard to break down. The solution is to play almost the same way but with a lot more pace and urgency or play with three proper forwards and lump it, keeping them on the back foot as in the second half. Solution one is more for the purists.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby LeonRivers on Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:13 pm

romford wrote:
Doesn't Winston Reid play at RB for his national team ?

Why play Tomkins there...

Not quite. He plays as the right of three central defenders.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Didn't see or read the game so I am afraid a sweeping generalisation is applied.


Teams don't usually go from being able to pass the ball on the deck to not passing the ball on the deck and vice versa.

It depends upon several factors, a couple of which are the amount of pressure applied to the man on the ball (and the area of the field where it is applied) and the opponents closing down passing lanes.

Against Barnsley (which I did see) we got all day on the ball and the opportunity to pass at will. I don't know about the Brum game because as I say, I didn't see any of it or even hear a commentary. BUT. If Brum were more organised and applied pressure on the ball high up the field it could mean that players were more hurried. If they closed down passing lanes early and often it is then down to the movement of players without the ball to create spaces and open up passing lanes. Maybe this led to mistakes by players in deep positions misplacing passes to opponents allowing them to create opportunities close to our goal.
I asked my forwards where possible to close down and harry the opponent as close to their goal as possible. If we won the ball back we were that much closer to our opponents goal and more likely to create a goal scoring opportunity. (See Barca ~ not that I'm Pep Guardiola at all) but it does require a huge amount of physical effort and incredible fitness. Of course you can also do it in stages and/or specific areas of the field and not all of the time too.

That's no critique of any player or the team in general or the manager. Just generalising about how one team against two different opponents can look completely different in playing styles.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby swash on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:09 pm

The other massive factor is control.

A really good passing team like Arsenal at their pomp hit their short passes hard, so the recipient has to have excellent control.

Look at a replay of Brum's second goal, and Carlton's efforts at controlling the ball and you'll see the problem.
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:22 pm

Doesn't Chalks call him "Carlton Can'tcontrol ?"

:lol:
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby swash on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:37 pm

He can trap the ball 20 yards :D
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Re: West Ham United v Birmingham City: Match Thread

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:44 pm

Still possibly the best through ball Defoe has ever received.. The right pace the right accuracy.....

:lol:
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