West Ham Utd 0-1 Stoke City (31/08/13)

[richneal]

Some of us are saying that Saturday's peformance was an outlier - things will be okay in the long run.
Others are saying that this is just a taste of things to come - in short, we can expect a lot more of the same this season results-wise and performance-wise.

I just reviewed many of the predictions/comments in the 'Where Will West Ham Finish' thread started by DWW a while back: from the numerous dire expectations listed in that thread it seems as though many of us felt that this season would be an ugly, mediocre one at best. As always, it seems as though our pre-conceived notions and opinions affect our stance on any given match or any given season: the glass is half-empty or half-full as we seek to justify our previous predictions, opinions, and public statements.

I'm one of those people that wasn't comfortable or confident with our style of play the last couple of years, so everything I say should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Kudos to Allardyce for getting the players to finish 10th last season - he got the team punching well above our weight, quite remarkable when you think about it, so he deserves a collective pat on the back for that.

But . . . Saturday's game was remarkable as I don't think I can remember seeing a single shot from us that was on target. Did we even make their keeper work once? I only watched the game once on satellite, so maybe I missed something.

Performance-wise, I'm of the opinion that if we play like that a few more times this season we probably deserve to be relegated. Now I really don't want to be a doom and gloom merchant, but I'm anxious to see what Allardyce's plan B is. Did we see it on Saturday? Any ideas what it is? What should it be?

[SpongeBob's Pants]

I agree with much of what you say Wizzo. That's why I put 'virtually' before 'start again'. Whilst we did lose our best players imho- Parker and Ba, for me much of the rebuilding involved strengthening the mentality of the likes of Carlton. From what I saw that season it worked, the most obvious beneficiaries of this 're-programming' were Reid and Tomkins.

But I take your point- I was reacting to the comment that seemed to make out we are an established Premier League team when sadly we aren't.

England internationals such as Carroll, Downing, Jarvis, J.Cole. Established, long term PL players such as Nolan, Jussi, Collins, Noble, Diame, etc. International players such as Reid, Rat, etc.

Why shouldnt we be an established PL team exactly?

[DaveWHU1964]

England internationals such as Carroll, Downing, Jarvis, J.Cole. Established, long term PL players such as Nolan, Jussi, Collins, Noble, Diame, etc. International players such as Reid, Rat, etc.

Why shouldnt we be an established PL team exactly?

It depends what your definition of 'established' is. For me I can't see how we can call ourselves established when last year we were scrapping to get out of he Championship. We are a decent team (despite the awful weekend performance) but then so are Swansea. And I wouldn't count them as established either- they've just not been in the top league long enough to call them that.

The Mancs are established, Liverpool, Arsenal of course. Eveton are established. Whilst the likes of us have come and gone they've all been in this league for so long that they deserve the word 'established'.

All imho of course, your definition may well be different to mine.

[SpongeBob's Pants]

It depends what your definition of 'established' is. For me I can't see how we can call ourselves established when last year we were scrapping to get out of he Championship. We are a decent team (despite the awful weekend performance) but then so are Swansea. And I wouldn't count them as established either- they've just not been in the top league long enough to call them that.

The Mancs are established, Liverpool, Arsenal of course. Eveton are established. Whilst the likes of us have come and gone they've all been in this league for so long that they deserve the word 'established'.

All imho of course, your definition may well be different to mine.

I get exactly what you mean. But i would counter that by saying we only spent one season in the championship. We were an established PL side before then, and imo we are now also.

With the players we have, i think we are (or should be viewed as) an established PL side.

Like you said, its how you view it though i guess.

[ryanrc]

I was at a festival all weekend so I've just managed to watch a recording of the game. I'm starting to get really fed up with Nolan. I defended him for a long time but apart from scoring goals, he can do absolutely nothing at all which is not good enough for a midfield player. He also doesn't score anywhere near enough goals to justify how crap he is in the tackle, or how bad he is at passing. He will never be dropped for someone that can actually play football unfortunately and I'm starting to get bored of it all. We can't rely on being a good team only when AC is playing.

[Bobby Orangeboom]

I was at a festival all weekend so I've just managed to watch a recording of the game. I'm starting to get really fed up with Nolan. I defended him for a long time but apart from scoring goals, he can do absolutely nothing at all which is not good enough for a midfield player. He also doesn't score anywhere near enough goals to justify how crap he is in the tackle, or how bad he is at passing.

Me too, but he completed 21/22 passes on Saturday so that isn't actually the problem.

[ryanrc]

Me too, but he completed 21/22 passes on Saturday so that isn't actually the problem.

He gave the ball away a couple of times far too easily either with a ***** touch or a bad pass. To be fair, he wasn't the only one lacking enthusiasm on Saturday I'm just digging him out because I've felt he's deserved to be dropped for a long time and is largely ineffective without Carroll there.

[speculator]

I've only just come back from France so only just seen the Sky highlights (or low lights if you prefer). Interesting to see the best striker at Upton Park on Saturday was sitting on the bench, shame we never went in for Crouch as a back up for play one, miss two, Carroll.

We looked very ordinary, a team adrift, wondering what to do with the ball with no Samson up front to ping it to. Maiga looks like he'd struggle in the reserves.

Jussi was to blame for the goal in my opinion - showed Pennant way to much off his left-side and then couldn't get over quick enough to recover it.

Pleasing to see some youngsters getting a chance.

Just when I thought it was a bad weekend I hear CFC is coming back! Now it's a bad week. :shock:

[ryanrc]

After slagging Nolan off earlier in this thread, fair play to him for this.
http://www.whufc.com/articles/20130904/ ... 84_3446943" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Holds his hands up to his pass and I think he knows his performance wasn't good enough and hopefully he'll be motivated by that for the next game and can lead the lads out by example. I also like his comments re: Vaz Te and I hope Vaz doesn't get booed by our lot when he next comes on.