PSF: Schalke 04 0-0 West Ham Utd (6-7 pens) (02/08/14)

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Coruchy you should have been on here then my friend , let me tell you about dear old Avram .

I was , by the end, the only poster on this site ( 17,000 registered users) that was defending him .I actually enjoyed quite a lot of the football under him - I'm not a pro so watching Obina fire it high wide and handsome from 35 yards was fun - we'd had a shot !

I got slaughtered on here pretty much 24/7 for the whole season .

Which is why I won't listen to others whining about the style of football these days .They got the Manager they deserved .

So you know , I was the first to call Sam out on here for style .We had just done Watford 4-0 away and I wasn't happy with how we had played .

The plain truth is for the vast majority of fans good football is when we win , crap football is when we don't .

Now, I've changed my mind on Sam as I can see a little bit more about what he has tried to do and the constraints that he operates in are signficant , so I'll cut him some slack , and i wish others would as well .

I was on here then. I have been here since about 2003. I wanted Grant out as he was incompetent. However, I still feel the negativity towards Allardyce is greater and more fervent than it was towards Grant. Both on here and in the ground

[Billydinho]

No, you're right, the result of every pre-season game ever played has been sh*t.

Come on now, I know you aren't thick so stop acting it.

You may never go to a football match but I'm sure you have at least a basic understanding.

[the pink palermo]

Claret Parrot I'm sure we all have rational moments when we realise that there is a reason Sam is paid for his opinion while the rest of us pay to express ours but in the excitement :lol: we sort of forget it

With regards to Nolan , I'm sure Sam can see what we see , a player who cannot get forward quickly enough to do the link up play , and lacks a decent touch at critical moments and is therefore unable to bring others into play .

Of course Sam sees it , so does his army of aides .So can every player .And most fans, apart from Rebirth .

But , and here is the thing, Sam has always said he isn't interested in what a player cannot do , he looks at what he can do .

Nolan does make sure we are organised on the pitch .Nolan does have the knack of getting goals at crucial moments or being in the right place at the right time .

It's clear Sam rates those as more important than watching a Tony Currie type player .Personally I'd have broken the bank and signed Dimitar Berbatov and played him there .He's the sort of player I love - barely moves , lazy as f*** ( to the untrained eye ) but creates .

We all want Eric Cantona , but David Batty was a good player as well .The professionals probably like players such as Batty .Frankly , they're more dependable .

[the pink palermo]

I wanted Grant out as he was incompetent.

And now you want Allardyce out ?

How long will the next one get before he doesn't match your ever changing requirements ?

[Crouchend_Hammer]

It's clear Sam rates those as more important than watching a Tony Currie type player .Personally I'd have broken the bank and signed Dimitar Berbatov and played him there .He's the sort of player I love - barely moves , lazy as **** ( to the untrained eye ) but creates .

Would you rather not have a manager who prefers the Tony Currie style player though? A manager who places creativity above solidity?

And not really sensible comparing Cantona and Batty as they are different positions. A team can have two David Battys and a Cantona. I have no problem with having a solid DM but we need creativity and unpredictability further forward

[claret parrot]

I saw a wonderful description of Berbatov a while ago (probably on here)

Called him "a player who'll never go for a cross if he can send his butler to fetch it"

[carnage]

Coruchy you should have been on here then my friend , let me tell you about dear old Avram .

I was , by the end, the only poster on this site ( 17,000 registered users) that was defending him .I actually enjoyed quite a lot of the football under him - I'm not a pro so watching Obina fire it high wide and handsome from 35 yards was fun - we'd had a shot !

I got slaughtered on here pretty much 24/7 for the whole season .

Which is why I won't listen to others whining about the style of football these days .They got the Manager they deserved .

So you know , I was the first to call Sam out on here for style .We had just done Watford 4-0 away and I wasn't happy with how we had played .

The plain truth is for the vast majority of fans good football is when we win , crap football is when we don't .

Now, I've changed my mind on Sam as I can see a little bit more about what he has tried to do and the constraints that he operates in are signficant , so I'll cut him some slack , and i wish others would as well .

Thanks PP, I was going to post exactly this with "I" replace with "PP."

Save me a load of time this Sunday.

[clawhammer]

It may have already been mentioned, but was everyone else's picture on Quest absolutely ***** ?

It was like the old satellite pictures in the seventies from South America

I had the same. If they are trying to raise their profile then they need to improve their picture resolution. It definitely detracted from my enjoyment of the game and made West ham look slow and inept. In H d we would have looked great.

[the pink palermo]

Would you rather not have a manager who prefers the Tony Currie style player though?

Nope . For all we know as a fan Sam may love Tony Currie - he saw him at close quarters , and may love all the creative players we all love to watch .

As a professional though he may take a different view .

A manager who places creativity above solidity?

Well, I did .I was the only one on here doing so .I don't recall too many others, including you banging the drum for entertainment when we were losing away at Wigan .

And not really sensible comparing Cantona and Batty

No less sensible than the vast majority of arguments posted on this website most days .

However , to be serious for a moment , let's take Joe Cole .

Where would you play him in our set up ?

[DannyboyDJL]

Nolan drew a blank in 30 games last year. This crucial goals thing is getting old now. He got 7 goals last season in 5 games. Sam complains about finishing chances, but continues to play a player who has clearly lost the goal scoring touch. You can't keep buying new striker after new striker and not consider replacing/rotating Nolan.

[the pink palermo]

I saw a wonderful description of Berbatov a while ago (probably on here)

Called him "a player who'll never go for a cross if he can send his butler to fetch it"

Brilliant !

And exactly why I think he's great to watch .I'm distraught he's never played for us , a classic West Ham player if ever there was one .

[MikeNewell'sOldBoys]

Think Berbatov would have been great when we had Zola (instead of Di Michele, Diamanti and Franco supporting Cole). Berbatov in our current situation would be a waste.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

PP - I said I wanted Grant out because he was incompetent. The only two choices in the world are not just grant or Allardyce though. There are options in between. A competent Avram. I suggested McLaren last season and I stick by it.

As for Joe Cole, I would gave given him a go in the Nolan role. It probably wouldn't have worked because he is past it now. But would like to have see him have a go there to see what he could do.
I would also have played him instead of Jarvis and/ or Downing last season. I think we looked more dangerous when he was drifting in than with two out and out wingers. However, I don't think was prepared to sacrifice the solidity Jarvis and Downing provide

[the pink palermo]

As for Joe Cole, I would gave given him a go in the Nolan role.

Where did Jose play him at Chelsea , in his prime .

[Crouchend_Hammer]

He played him wide. Not sure what that has to do with anything though. Many people are of the opinion he never quite fulfilled his potential as a player because Mourinho didn't allow him a free role. He would have prospered much more at Arsenal or Man U IMO.
You asked me where I would have played him for West Ham last season, not for Chelsea 8 years ago.

[the pink palermo]

He played him wide. Not sure what that has to do with anything though. Many people are of the opinion he never quite fulfilled his potential as a player because Mourinho didn't allow him a free role. He would have prospered much more at Arsenal or Man U IMO.
You asked me where I would have played him for West Ham last season, not for Chelsea 8 years ago.

I'm merely having you point out to yourself that another player who many of our fans would play in the Nolan position was played "out wide" by a different Manager at a different club that went on to win lots of trophies .

And people wonder why Sam plays as he does ? And uses the personnel he does ?

The professionals look at the game differently .

Crouchy - I'd play 4-2-4 every week , all out attack , and wouldn't give a toss if we lost 23-22 .

That's why I pay at the gate rather than get paid for my opinion .

Sam gets paid handsomely ( I read on here the thirteenth highest in the world - which is clearly cobblers but it's repeated so often it has become FACT) for his opinions for a reason .I can accept that fans may not like what they are watching - it's subjective - but please , when people start telling me Sam doesn't know what he is doing they lose credibility .

Promoted, 10th, 13th .

Not that bad is it ?

[DaveWHU1964]

There is zero chance of Big Sam changing the style of play, as can be seen here today. He knows his days are numbered; it's going to make him even more reluctant to change.

Sorry but this makes no sense.

[libero]

The idea that CC is no good as a target man and that therefore we should sign a better one, is, in my opinion, missing the point entirely. Football has moved on and teams don't play the classic target man system because modern day defences have worked out how to deal with this archaic "tactic".

Sam Allardyce is - what was the stat? - the thirteenth best paid manager in world football and that's all he can come up with? And it doesn't work, not because CC isn't any good, but because the system doesn't work. Nolan & the other midfield players don't take up goal scoring positions and we fail to score in too many matches.

So what would be the point of splashing out on another CC/AC? Peter Crouch? Please, Sam, don't make me laugh!

What Allardyce needs to do is to work on his attacking systems and get the likes of Zarate, Valencia, Vaz Te, Poyet, Jarvis, Lee and, yes, CC sometimes, involved in more complex attacking tactics. While he insists on having only the one attacking plan - long ball to big bloke, Nolan picks up scraps - we'll be defend against, we'll get very few goals, and the team will bore the pants of everyone.

Our attacking options against Schalke yesterday were abysmal & even if we'd have had Ronaldo, Higuain, Costa, RvP, Messi or Geoff Hurst up front - they simply would not have touched the ball

Deja vu anyone?

[Crouchend_Hammer]

I have never said he doesn't know what he is doing. He has proven to be competent. Grant was very incompetent. Just because he knows what he is doing, doesn't mean I have to like what he is doing though. As I said, there does exist a world outside of the incompetence of Grant and the stultifying competence of Allardyce though

[MB]

The idea that CC is no good as a target man and that therefore we should sign a better one, is, in my opinion, missing the point entirely. Football has moved on and teams don't play the classic target man system because modern day defences have worked out how to deal with this archaic "tactic".

Deja vu anyone?

Yesterday to me showed how we will play away from home against teams who are better than us and it worked. If we play like that at home against Leicester etc then everyone will have the right to be pissed off. FWIW it is those games where i think the Daves are focused on and the ones where the style as much as the result will be judged.

Playing an open game and losing 4-1 wouldn't have shown anything other than that our squad is not good enough to go head to head against better opposition. Anyone who doesn't already know that needs to change their meds.

Yesterday was away at Old Trafford and we got a point...