ELQ2: Birkirkara 1-0 West Ham Utd (3-5 pens) (23/07/15)

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Hatcham Iron
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Hatcham Iron »

think we will find that was a wake up call and i hope we start putting out a proper first team from now on.we have so many new players that need bedding in and i think slaven has seen this and we will see a
west ham first eleven in the next round not a west ham pre season mix up.this side i rekon is going to take time before we see the best of it we are all going to need a bit of patience dont lets prove mr lampard right keep the faith. :crest:
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

Bob/John

They can only do it a bit at a time, within the restrictions of their budgets, and in line with whatever they think the priorities are for a season. A £25m budget goes not very far on attacking players when a decent centre forward is at least £15m and a wide player is £10m plus.

I think Ogbonna allows the other three CBs to be used a bit more sparingly, and hopefully with less likelihood of their bodies failing.

Obiang gives a Kouyate alternative.

Payet takes what was Nolan's traditional position, but is a very different type of of #10.

The three big holes that need filling are Downing, Song and Carroll.

The owners have been very disciplined with their spending at all times, and have followed a clear path of picking key positions to upgrade (and make considerably younger) each summer.

I think some players will still go, but it will be a lot of loan in/loan out deals and perhaps a bit of part-ex bargaining.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Turns to Stone »

bubbles1966 wrote:
I think Ogbonna allows the other three CBs to be used a bit more sparingly, and hopefully with less likelihood of their bodies failing.

Obiang gives a Kouyate alternative.

Payet takes what was Nolan's traditional position, but is a very different type of of #10.


The owners have been very disciplined with their spending at all times, and have followed a clear path of picking key positions to upgrade (and make considerably younger) each summer.

I think some players will still go, but it will be a lot of loan in/loan out deals and perhaps a bit of part-ex bargaining.
Agree with this 100%, Bubbs. I can't help but think though that from what I saw of Burke last year, the greater urgency was at the opposite end of the pitch to Ogbonna.

Reminds me a little bit of when we spent £15m on James, Repka and Hutchison and ended up with Ian Pearce playing up front.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by tommyd2nd4th »

Now that was ****ing awful. Honestly I cannot put into words just how bad we were. I mean I probably could try but I imagine this comment would be banned.

A few weeks ago I joked about playing the 'big boys of Europe' in these early rounds, with the notion that it wouldn't be easy. A joke. A half hearted attempt at humour. Of course we would get through the first 2 rounds with relative ease.

And then tonight, dear old West Ham. How you amaze me at times with the depths you can plummet to. Hanging on against, not even the runners of the Maltese league, the runners up, to the runners up! Absolute shambles all round.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Scratchy »

I think the reason it was so shocking is partly because we were pretty rubbish, but also partly because of expectations. Our opponents are still professional footballers, giving their all and defending for their lives. We don't have world class players to steamroll through them and win 6-0. Should we have been more comfortable? Definitely. But hopefully our experiences so far will have tempered expectations a bit. I'll be happy to get through against Astra, however we do it.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by likemydreams »

Scratchy wrote:I think Poyet putting himself forward to take the last and ultimately crucial penalty, and then slotting it away as cool as anything really speaks volumes about his character. I've got a good feeling he's going to develop into a quality player.

^^^^^this^^^^
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by WHUJohn »

bubbles1966 wrote:Bob/John

They can only do it a bit at a time, within the restrictions of their budgets, and in line with whatever they think the priorities are for a season. A £25m budget goes not very far on attacking players when a decent centre forward is at least £15m and a wide player is £10m plus.

I think Ogbonna allows the other three CBs to be used a bit more sparingly, and hopefully with less likelihood of their bodies failing.

Obiang gives a Kouyate alternative.

Payet takes what was Nolan's traditional position, but is a very different type of of #10.

The three big holes that need filling are Downing, Song and Carroll.

The owners have been very disciplined with their spending at all times, and have followed a clear path of picking key positions to upgrade (and make considerably younger) each summer.

I think some players will still go, but it will be a lot of loan in/loan out deals and perhaps a bit of part-ex bargaining.
I'd prefer to be called Leroy if poss, thanks.. :thup:

I think you've hit the nail on the head in part though there Bubbaroo, when you said "in line with what they think their priorities are" as I personally don't think THEY should have any priorities, I believe that should be down to the management team but of course, when the management teams is only on two year contracts, it's no surprise that the squad is grossly unbalanced as we are seeing now.

I don't believe like you said that there has been any real plan where recruitment is concerned, maybe up until last summer only.

They are still dictated to by Agents, our recruitment team still involved agents heavily.

That's no good, there is always bias within the signings this way because of a pound note, and that ultimately hurts us as it hurts the squad.

For me it's really simple, they need to spend more money if they want to sell us as a proper team in a proper stadium.

If they don't they can continue with the season long loans from the UAE (two in yow years now) and allowing managers to persist with freebies that are 3 years old, as we saw last night.

It's not good enough in my eyes, the recruitment policy is nowhere near good enough and that, going back to my/your first point, is because these people for some reason think they are qualified to get involved with it when they quite clearly aren't.

I don't personally believe what Bilic has said about Lanzini for example, I think it's lip service as exactly the same happened last season at this time with Zarate and that most certainly wasn't down to the then management team or the management teams recruitment set up, as it barely had one.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hammerleroy »

Ingatestone Hammer you'd better start ironing the spuds shirt. With Valencia having an extended holiday after strolling around for Ecuador, just how much recovery time do these highly paid professional footballers need by the way (although I think he's back now), Sakho's stupid sending off and dare I say no AC then surely we'll have no choice but to play Maiga. We must play two up top against the Romanians and try to get a decent lead 'cos we won't get away with what we did yesterday in Romania for sure as they must be a step up from the Maltesers. In fact my local lot Barton Rovers are a step up according to one on their players who lives in my close. He simply couldn't believe what he saw! . So get that shirt ready :(
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by WHUJohn »

Nice name ^^ .. :thup:
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Slavish »

F.U.B.A.R. wrote:Never understand the notion of calling out players who are not good enough..

What does it achieve?...Apart from a list of scapegoats..

Saying "get rid" of so and so is such a negative way of looking at things and unrealistic.. Are we supposed to just release with out any replacements?
I think the only time it's acceptable to call out players is when the transfer window is wide open.

You said yourself... "players who are not good enough".

The term "Get Rid" is just me making it clear that I'm not on the fence about the players concerned, but I'm certainly not suggesting we pay off their contracts without having suitable replacements.

But they absolutely do need replacing, and if QPR can be sold on Jarvis again, if Bolton have an interest in Nolan, if Zarate or Amalfitano can be sold or part-ex'ed, or if anyone at all wants to pay a percentage of Maigas wages, then we'd surely be happy to pursue any or all of those avenues - subject obviously to having suitable replacements, permanent or more likely on loan, lined up.

I'm convinced that last nights team had a number of players that our Manager wanted to make his mind up on one way or the other, while still confident they could get the job done. The fact they came so close to not getting the job done, has probably made his thinking crystal clear. Now it's about seeing if we can shift them, and get better in. Because that window is wide open.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by roblo »

tommyd2nd4th wrote:Now that was ****ing awful. Honestly I cannot put into words just how bad we were. I mean I probably could try but I imagine this comment would be banned.

A few weeks ago I joked about playing the 'big boys of Europe' in these early rounds, with the notion that it wouldn't be easy. A joke. A half hearted attempt at humour. Of course we would get through the first 2 rounds with relative ease.

And then tonight, dear old West Ham. How you amaze me at times with the depths you can plummet to. Hanging on against, not even the runners of the Maltese league, the runners up, to the runners up! Absolute shambles all round.
1. We qualified.
2. It's pre-season.
3. Those that made the trip had a great trip.

Cheer up!
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

WHUJohn wrote: For me it's really simple, they need to spend more money if they want to sell us as a proper team in a proper stadium.
Absolutely.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Slavish »

I'd still like to find out more about where exactly we are at in terms of FPP - as much as I'd love to harass our owners into spending more (they'll eventually get it all back with grundles on top), I'm loathe to do so without having a clearer understanding of our FPP position.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by beckton »

roblo wrote:
1. We qualified.
2. It's pre-season.
3. Those that made the trip had a great trip.

Cheer up!


:thup:
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

WHUJohn wrote:For me it's really simple, they need to spend more money if they want to sell us as a proper team in a proper stadium.

If they don't they can continue with the season long loans from the UAE (two in yow years now) and allowing managers to persist with freebies that are 3 years old, as we saw last night.

It's not good enough in my eyes, the recruitment policy is nowhere near good enough and that, going back to my/your first point, is because these people for some reason think they are qualified to get involved with it when they quite clearly aren't.

I don't personally believe what Bilic has said about Lanzini for example, I think it's lip service as exactly the same happened last season at this time with Zarate and that most certainly wasn't down to the then management team or the management teams recruitment set up, as it barely had one.
I get where you're coming from, and sympathise with a lot of it. :)

I think Bilic is doing a pretty good job of saying these are all his players when we have been linked to some of them for a long time - Hernandez, Payet, Obiang.

His explanation of Ogbonna was the most convincing one.He talked at great length about how he watched him at Torino when Italy were in Croatia's 2012 group, and spending nearly £8m on a centre back is a departure from the owners' norm.

As for the squad depth, it is cash, pure and simple.

Most of the top 6 have £10m-£15m players in reserve because they make more money and don't blow it all getting relegated.

I keep reading that the owners' are going to spend £50m this summer (I guess net). If they do, it should make a big difference. I'm sceptical, TBH.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by -DL- »

Colours never run wrote: Don't patronise me with that 'c n b specs' b*llocks. Just agree to disagree, because it wasn't as clear cut as you'd like to believe.
It's not patronising. It is being viewed through claret and blue specs - just like it would be if the roles were reversed and Tomkins was the ne thrown to the floor. If the chap had stayed on, I would bet my bottom dollar that the main consensus amongst West Ham Fans would have been the bloke should have gone.

I've not said it was clear cut either, but Tomkins over reacted, and put the bloke on the deck. It would have been some Oscar winning bit of acting for the player to have gone down like he did.

The more I see it, the more I come to the conclusion that it was definitely a red card offence, and credit to the ref for booking the Maltese bloke also. The ref didn't have the best of games, but during that incident, he got it spot on.

Whatever level of professional football, you can't manhandle a player to the floor like that and expect to stay on the pitch.

Tomka the plonka.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Jumby »

I hope one day we'll look back on this and say that this was the moment we nearly blew it, before being able to sit back and reflect on a winning Europa League campaign.

Last night was obviously f**king shocking, I'd say the most embarrassing result in the clubs history, no English side has ever lost to a Maltese side and probably won't again for decades. I'm also worried that the Romanians will turn us over, Inverness are better than Birkirkara and they lost to our next opponents, unless we play a strong side we're probably going out. To threaten as little as we did was absolutely pathetic, Jarvis and Maiga have to go, they can't play for us again, how many times now has one of us said this, and we're never proven wrong.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

I've not said it was clear cut either


But that's exactly how you describe it. Make your mind up.

And I look at all our incidents objectively. For someone who apparently sees things through West Ham tinted glasses was appalled at Nobles behaviour when dealing with their overweight forward and just as I was when Tomkins made a fool of himself when falling theatrically to the ground up at Goodison last season. So knock it on the head.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Iron Mark »

Should have been a yellow to both in my opinion. Either that or Tomkins should have thrown himself to the ground when their player was the aggressor and got the Maltese player sent off. Only difference to what Tomkins done and what their player did is that their player ended up on the floor.
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by WHUJohn »

bubbles1966 wrote: I get where you're coming from, and sympathise with a lot of it. :)

I think Bilic is doing a pretty good job of saying these are all his players when we have been linked to some of them for a long time - Hernandez, Payet, Obiang.

His explanation of Ogbonna was the most convincing one.He talked at great length about how he watched him at Torino when Italy were in Croatia's 2012 group, and spending nearly £8m on a centre back is a departure from the owners' norm.

As for the squad depth, it is cash, pure and simple.

Most of the top 6 have £10m-£15m players in reserve because they make more money and don't blow it all getting relegated.

I keep reading that the owners' are going to spend £50m this summer (I guess net). If they do, it should make a big difference. I'm sceptical, TBH.
Ogbonna I have no problem with at all, that makes sense completely due to the previous Euro Groups plus he's a defender and Bilic I'd hope would have control where that's concerned.

It's these South American loan/freebies that freak me out, especially when we are relying on them instead of actually spending £6-8m or whatever it is on people like Kevin Miralles.

Call me paranoid, but it stinks of a deal being done because it works on a computer game.
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