Avram: the poll

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Avram Grant:

Poll ended at Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:51 am

Should be fired with immediate effect
282
62%
Should be given more time
110
24%
Unsure
61
13%
 
Total votes: 453

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roblo
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by roblo »

I was unluckily enough to go to the last three games. Utter utter garbage, must go.
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Gator_Hammer
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Gator_Hammer »

the pink palermo wrote:Got to be honest and say I'm shocked the way this poll is going .

And not a little saddened . :(

We had a glorious day under John Lyall at the empire stadium in 1980 .

Loyalty brings rewards .

14 games .

14 bloody games .
In your work life, have you never hired someone new/been on a team where someone was brought in and you knew right away that a mistake had been made?

I'm all for loyalty and giving people a chance, but after Liverpool it is very clear that something is amiss. Seems to me a change has to be made very shortly or else we will be too deep in the hole to get out.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by beckton »

MessyHammer wrote:He has had too much time already IMO, everyday I check this site in hope of his departure. GRANT OUT.

Four months into the season, blimey!



Grant in, one because we need some bloody stability and two because many of the suggested replacements are laughable.


Now, if Jose Mourinho wanted to come here. :lol:
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Believer
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Believer »

Give him time but also give him more support.

At Chelsea he had world class players at his disposal and world class facilities within which to work. At Pompey he had a bunch of players who had the weight of the world on their shoulders but they were with him.
Here he has a mixed bag of players - some dross, some unfit, some not interested, some on loan and some just going through the motions. I honestly do not believe that he is the inspirational type. His circumstances at both previous clubs helped him. Either top drawer players who were used to a certain system which he went along with. Or, a load of players who hadnt been paid who thought that if they worked their nuts off would definitely get a move away at the end of the season. I don't think any of that cup run was entirely down to him.

I like some of his ideas but I think that proper coaching in specific areas (defence / attack) will help enormously and hopefully the likes of Upson will be told to either shape up or ship out. The same can be said for Behrami, McArthy, Illunga, the list goes on.

I actually think that Downes, Di Canio and Lomas won't think twice about introducing some youngsters. They will go on about getting the crowd behind them, becoming instant heroes etc. Cole will probably start reproducing cos I think that PDC will give him a hug etc.

Let Grant pick the team and identify signing targets etc but let the others do the coaching alongside him.

There is no "I" in team and the sooner our shower of sh*t realise this, the better !
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Sloop John B
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Sloop John B »

Gone for more time, not because I've faith in Grant but because I think the players are the problem. Replacing the manager is an empty gesture as the real problem will remian.

More than a few occaisions the team has started games well (newcastle etc) which suggests he's got the prep right, they then go on to bottle it, so unless he's telling them to coast it when they go 1 up I can't see how changing the manager (alone) will solve our problems.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by I've got curly hair too »

It's a bit of a shame, after only 14 games, but he looks clueless and doesn't inspire so has to go now. We are deep in it and time is the only thing on our side. Saying that there are not too many alternatives out there....
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by sutts07 »

Sorry Avram... you should never have been given the job as you are not the right man.
Big changes are needed in my eyes... posted this already today...

Bit left field but do any of you think it would be worth putting someone like Alvin Martin or Ray Stewart in charge with the guidence of Tony Carr??

I know they both failed as managers at a lower level (or at least failed to keep their jobs) but I feel they may have taken roles a bit too soon after their playing days and certainly did not have a Tony Carr type figure to oversee their development.

I would love to see a set up that I really feel I could stick by through thick or thin for the next five or six years and feel we will only get that by using someone the fans can call their own. Alvin has a good media presence, knows the game as well as anyone and certainly has the passion for our club.

Tony Carr - Director of Football
Alvin Martin - Team Manager
Kevin Keen - 1st Team Coach
etc...

If Sully-Gold stood up and said this is the set up and we will not review it for five years no matter what happens... I would actually be quite glad. We have had too many men in charge who were just not the right man for our club now. Lets get back to what we know and love.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by hadleighhammer »

I personally blame the players more and can't see us getting anyone better. And the blokes only had 14 games and we really need some stability.

So for me he should stay.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Chelmo Hammer »

Gone for showing him the door. I didn't want him here in the first place. Quite why G&S thought a manger who had just finished 20th in the the Premier League (even though it was with Portsmouth and all their problems) and who hasn't actually managed a team for a full season, was the right man for the job is beyond me.

Spurs match aside I have seen nothing that suggests he is the right man, not a thing. The cup run is an aside, he had excellent cup runs with both Pompey and Chelsea, but at this moment in time it is not what is important. I would no doubt enjoy us lifting the Carling Cup if it were to happen, but it would in no way detract from the absolute shower of **** we have been subjected to week after week in the league.
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the pink palermo
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by the pink palermo »

Gator_Hammer wrote: In your work life, have you never hired someone new/been on a team where someone was brought in and you knew right away that a mistake had been made?

I'm all for loyalty and giving people a chance, but after Liverpool it is very clear that something is amiss. Seems to me a change has to be made very shortly or else we will be too deep in the hole to get out.
GH

I've always made sure I hired the right people - but not one person was ever the finished article after a couple of months .Every single one of them improved with longevity of tenure .

Liverpool is the only game I've missed this season, I've been at the rest , including the pre seasons . I saw Grant at first hand try the squad in every conceivable combination , different formations, assessing the calibre of his squad .

He was thorough , dilligent and professional .I accept fully he lacks something in the "show me your medals" category , but so do most of our players .I understand the impact this sometimes has on players , but the Manager cannot be expected to do the teams running for them .

My take on Saturday, was not that we found out that Grant was a poor Manager, more what a key player Parker is .
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-DL-
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by -DL- »

I voted for give him more time. I am of ther firm opinion that are players are so non-commited, it doesn't matter what manager we have. Let us go down, regroup in The Championship, get up in two seasons, after clearing out all the dross, and replacing them with adequate players that make up a good team, rather than mainly not very good players, that don't play as a team, like we have now.

Two **** seasons, two different managers, the common denominator being, the playing staff is mostly the same.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Dazzaboy »

Has to go now, I can't see how he can inspire this team and turn things around, we are in a **** spot right now. Im going for sack grant, get someone else in now who has enough time to work with this team until January where he can recruit some steal in the transfer window. IF we are to stay up we need a few players who are going to get stuck in week in week out and help grind out a few results. Getting a new man in now will give us a little time to identify new players.

Kevin Davies type player upfront. We need to sort our poor defense out also.
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Al
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Al »

Unfortunately I made the trek to the Liverpool match.

Someone who still insists on playing 3 strikers and Kovac in midfield away from home against a big team, after how it's been going, tells me he is:

- clueless
- does not learn

Gotta go for me.
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vind
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by vind »

Really difficult decision.There have been times when we have played some good stuff but the problem is we have not moved on as a team and look like going backwards.

However as someone who lived through the Lyall years, I don't believe in instant dismissals, and there are not many out there who inspire confidence in me. Maybe curbs, but given the tough time he had here (undeservedly) I can't see him jumping at the chance
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Lancaster Hammer »

Seemed a dead man walking in his post-Liverpool interview. My impression is that he is devoid of ideas and needs to be put out of his misery.
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Hammer83
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Hammer83 »

rottiel wrote:Didn't inspire me when appointed.

Definitely does not inspire me now.


:thup: I also feel the exact same about the owners before they joined and now.
Last edited by Hammer83 on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gator_Hammer
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Gator_Hammer »

the pink palermo wrote:
GH

I've always made sure I hired the right people - but not one person was ever the finished article after a couple of months .Every single one of them improved with longevity of tenure .

Liverpool is the only game I've missed this season, I've been at the rest , including the pre seasons . I saw Grant at first hand try the squad in every conceivable combination , different formations, assessing the calibre of his squad .

He was thorough , dilligent and professional .I accept fully he lacks something in the "show me your medals" category , but so do most of our players .I understand the impact this sometimes has on players , but the Manager cannot be expected to do the teams running for them .

My take on Saturday, was not that we found out that Grant was a poor Manager, more what a key player Parker is .
I've been in professional situations where new people came in and it was clear immediately that they were good on paper/interviewed well but had no business being in the job. Sometimes these people were my supervisors, in one instance they were my equal. They were always given a chance and in everyone of them the situation went downhill very fast. The bosses, of course, allowed them to develop as you say and in all but one instance they finally had to cut their losses and let them go. The single instance is still in progress and the situation has continually deteriorated to where this individuals department is essentially irrelevant. There are certainly situations where you stand behind your selection and do your best to develop them. West Ham's situation is not one of them.

There is no perfect parallel, but there should really be no growing pains or development issues in Grant's case. West Ham is the third team he has managed in this league. He kept on a number of key backroom staff to ensure continuity. He has received nothing but support from the bosses and was given a modest, yet reasonable transfer kitty. While I certainly do not expect us to be pushing for a CL spot, we should be far above 9 points from 14 games.
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Jigga
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Jigga »

Forget loyalty.

Premiership survival is the most important thing.

For that reason Avram has to go.
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Hammer83
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by Hammer83 »

It is interesting the way the two Daves are handling this compared to last season, which saw them provide public out-burts on a regular basis and the disgraceful way they treated Zola which was uncalled for.P.s I am not saying I want Zola still here just to save any confusion like this manager now he isn't good enough.

But now with this manager who is doing as bad (well worse as we had more points at this stage last season) as Zola we don't hear word out of them their silence is deafening.
Last edited by Hammer83 on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Post by wolf359 »

I've got curly hair too wrote:It's a bit of a shame, after only 14 games, but he looks clueless and doesn't inspire so has to go now. We are deep in it and time is the only thing on our side. Saying that there are not too many alternatives out there....
Agreed :thup:
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