Avram: the poll

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Avram Grant:

Poll ended at Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:51 am

Should be fired with immediate effect
282
62%
Should be given more time
110
24%
Unsure
61
13%
 
Total votes : 453

Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Pop Robson on Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:37 pm

Avram Grant rubbishes claims he's been handed ultimatum by disappointed West Ham board

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z18OL9pbJS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even on the o/s http://www.whufc.com/articles/20101217/ ... 84_2246799
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby daniel on Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:01 pm

Here's a piece by an Israeli sports journalist about Avram and his survival skills. I'll only ranslate the relevant parts.

Avram Grant and the 'Tiki Taka', by Ronen Dorfan.

I must say that the ridiculous dismissals of both Big Sam and Chris Houghton have lead to a new found appreciation of Avram Grant and his work method. I suppose he is one of a chosen few who really understand the game.

Sure- there are other managers who really work, say Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola. The rest of 'em are just involved in a massive game of survival.

You'd think that such game is winnable, i.e keeping your job. Say with hard work or success. But the latest dismissals prove that it's not so. Would you really be surprised if one of Roberto Mancini(Tevez is unhappy) or Carlo Ancelotti(Big game coming next, should he lose to a random Vidic header) will be the next to go? Nobody knows.

In that respect, Avram Grant is the greatest innovator of the manager's role in England nowadays. He's shown said greatness early on by undermining Jose Mourinho in his Chelsea days. He quickly realised no manager is safe, especially if he could get the 'special one' fired. With this realisation, you'd be a fool to put your money on him being the next to go. That's underestimating him.

He also likes to keep it fresh these days. In the old days, he loved to talk about "a process". Nowadays, he only breaks it out when facing a fellow relegation battler. When his team is defeated by a top side he'll be the first to remind us that "These are not our rivals. They're in a different league." But when he faces a lower table team, there's danger. So he'll point out that his team are going through "a process", "we're building something here". He won't overdo it though, as the fans will be wise to it.

But Grant is always on top of his game, unlike some of his fellow Premiership managers. From day one of any job he gets in football, every line, quote, spin are only directed towards survival. Refereeing mistakes, potential sacking of club employees at Pompey, The Holucaust, Yom Kippur. Grant has proved time and time again that no excuse is too cynical. His game isn't total football, it's total survival.

He's a genius for example at talking about a certain scenario that's bound to happen in the future. Not the near future, nor the distant. Close enough to delay any potential sacking, but not distant enough to scare the owners into thinking they might be stuck with his for years to come. A great example is his talking about "3 new players in January". Who are they? What positions? How and will they improve the team? It doesn't matter. All we need to know is that something is going to happen in January. Let's just keep him in his position 'till January, it's right around the corner.

The above is an example of an offensive move. Taking the initiative in the "keep your job" playing field. But defence is at least as important. There's a sense the with all these managers becoming available, Grant's position might weaken. Does he run or hide? No, he has "showdown, crunch-time talks" with the owners. Which results in a one win from next three ultimatum.

So he can relax a bit, he's got 3 games now. If he wins one he's done his job. Lose- well it's xmas, any potential replacement is on holiday, with the wife and kids. And so comes the Semi Final. Football wise- it would make sense to concentrate on staying up. But Zola stayed up and where is he now? So he'll say "I came here to win things and this is the first step". And then he pushes the owners into a corner. And suddenly Chelsea are looking for a manager, so it won't make sense trying to replace Avram because any decent manager would rather manage The Blues.

It's a game of cat and mouse. Convincing the owners that they are on the verge of sacking you. That there's a significant date in which something will change, something will happen. And then breat out the Jewish holiday, the refereeing mistake, the win in the micky mouse cup. That's how you get a stay of execution.


here's the link to the piece(it's written in Hebrew):

http://debuzzer.com/dorfan/9754
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby chalks on Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:37 am

ok so the consensus seems to be either:

a) He's ****ed this job up big time

or

b) What chamce has he stood, the squad he inherited was awaful, give him a break


So lets look at it from another angle.

If Blackpool this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they would be doing as well as they are?

If Newcastle this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they'd be doing as well as they are?

If Bolton this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they'd be doing as well as they are?

Answers on a postcard please
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Sloop John B on Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:03 am

chalks wrote:So lets look at it from another angle.

If Blackpool this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they would be doing as well as they are?

If Newcastle this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they'd be doing as well as they are?

If Bolton this season were managed by Avram Grant, do you think they'd be doing as well as they are?

Answers on a postcard please


Obv that's impossible to answer. But what you can say is that the foundations that the above teams successful seasons are based on were built last year.

If we can scrape through this season (big if) and add to the squad I think Grant will look like a much better manager next season.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby chalks on Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 am

Sloop John B wrote:Obv that's impossible to answer. But what you can say is that the foundations that the above teams successful seasons are based on were built last year.

If we can scrape through this season (big if) and add to the squad I think Grant will look like a much better manager next season.



Built last year when each had new managers. Last year each of those managers showed promise, made astute signings and showed capabilities of being a good manager.

Our manager hasnt got a clue. :lol:
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Tarbs on Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:30 pm

I don't think it matters who we have in charge...I think we are where we are because our squad is just not good enough. Apart from the obvious players like Parker and Green, not many of out players would get in other teams starting eleven.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:32 pm

Tarbs wrote:I don't think it matters who we have in charge...I think we are where we are because our squad is just not good enough. Apart from the obvious players like Parker and Green, not many of out players would get in other teams starting eleven.


Well they would, it's just that that team wouldn't be very good either...

:lol:
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Hammer83 on Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:30 pm

Tony Cottee has told talkSPORT West Ham must act now and get rid of manager Avram Grant.
The Hammers are stranded at the foot of the table after a woeful start to the season.
And former Upton Park striker Cottee is urging the club to bring in a new boss before the January transfer window.
“It’s the time to do it. If you’re going to do it you’ve got to do it in conjunction with the January window,” Cottee told the Sports Breakfast boys.
“They’re bottom of the league, they haven’t won away from home for 27 games I think it is now, and all the West Ham fans just expect to go down at the moment.
“Something’s got to happen, they’ve got to change something or other and the only change they can make really is replacing the manager.
They’ve got some tough games, Fulham away, then they’re home to a team in form in Everton, then they're home to Wolves, which is a massive game, followed by Newcastle away and Arsenal at home so the games don't get any easier.
“If you’re going to change the manager change him now, at the start of January, and get the new manager in place and give him some money.”
Cottee believes the Hammers have a good enough squad to survive in the Premier League, and insists a change of manager would solve their problems.
"They need a bit of inspiration the players," he added. "I think there’s some good players there but it’s just been very disjointed since the start of the season.
"The manager might be a nice fella but he doesn’t inspire me and if you’re a player and you're not getting inspired and motivated it rubs off in the performances.
"Martin O’Neill’s out there, Sam Allardyce would certainly keep the club up, so there’s some decent managers available and if there is a time to do it then the time would be now."


Well said TC :thup:
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby dapablo on Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:51 pm

Hammer83 wrote:"Martin O’Neill’s out there, Sam Allardyce would certainly keep the club up, so there’s some decent managers available and if there is a time to do it then the time would be now."


But they won't want to come here you stupid boy pike, and "certainly" is a ridiculous word to use.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby aaronwhufc on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:43 pm

Talksport are discussing this tonight should anyone wish to tune in.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby beckton on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:45 pm

aaronwhufc wrote:Talksport are discussing this tonight should anyone wish to tune in.



Thanks but no thanks. :D
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby chalks on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:00 pm

dapablo wrote:and "certainly" is a ridiculous word to use.



No its not, the manager in place at the moment is certainly going to get this club relegated
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby theflafson on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:13 pm

"certainly" is a ridiculous word to use. :thup:
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby hammerdivone on Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:16 am

True, I would have used guaranteed
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby theflafson on Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:13 am

That's like saying that if we had Fergie, we would be guaranteed to survive. There is no such thing.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby westhammer32 on Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:22 am

Is it me or does Cottee only ever come out and say negative stuff about the club? :think: Anyone know the last time he actually said anything positive? I see him last year at a charity event in Corringham he was the speaker and even then he kept laying into the club and whats wrong with it, never the good things we do.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby westlondonhammer on Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:10 am

theflafson wrote:That's like saying that if we had Fergie, we would be guaranteed to survive. There is no such thing.


Mate, ignore these miserable scrooge's and enjoy christmas
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby dapablo on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:32 pm

westhammer32 wrote:Is it me or does Cottee only ever come out and say negative stuff about the club?


It does appear so doesn't it, crying shame foe someone I once respected. Everyone knows it's not a happy place, never is when your fighting at the bottom of the table, but actualy glorifying at our distress brings bile to my throat.
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Re: Avram: the poll

Postby Gerblatz on Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:19 pm

westhammer32 wrote:Is it me or does Cottee only ever come out and say negative stuff about the club?


Wasn't he one of the former players that was ousted from his PR role at the club when Brady was slashing costs?

A constant disappointment to see Cottee talking down the club; wasn't he also part of a consortium that were rumoured to have wanted to take it over at one stage? :think:

I get the distinct impression that he's got an axe to grind...whatever his reasons.
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