Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

[DaveWHU1964]

AL,

I genuinely admire the way you stick up for your club. Fair do's- I'd be doing the same if it was West Ham involved even if in my heart of hearts I felt that my club was in the wrong. It's what we as passionate, loyal but sometimes blinkered fans do. That's truly not a knock at you btw but just a truth about how fans, including myself, sometimes defend the indefensible. Look at Liverpool's fans' reaction to the Suarez case and dare I say it, our re-action to the Tevez affair -I certainly don't want to reignite that one btw, and I know the cases are very, very different but one similarity is that our officials bluffed, lied and apparently hid the truth. Despite that I continued to defend the club in the hope that I was wrong or that we could bluff our way out of it.

I think this is what you are doing here. I'm sorry, but to consider that Rangers appearance in Division 3 is a 'punishment' is plain wrong. Sevco/ Rangers should count themsleves extremely fortunate to be in the league at all. They had no right to be. As has been thoroughly explained on these pages by more knowledgeable people than me, had the rules been adhered to Rangers would not be gaining admission to the league for at least three years. So rather than being punished Sevco/ Rangers have actually got away with it.

Green and increasingly, McCoist are deliberately fostering the idea that the are being victimised in the hope I suspect, that some will fall for it, actual punishments will be mitigated and fans will blame the authorities and other clubs for, rather than accept that if you finally get caught out for cheating and skewing a level playing field then there are consequences. And yes, if it's shown that Rangers did indeed avoid paying the tax that they should have, I think that those consequences should include taking away trophies that were won using players that the club could not otherwise have afforded. Because not to do so would mean that cheats have been allowed to keep their ill gotten gains and there is less deterrent for other clubs who may be similarly tempted.

[beckton]

However, there is no precedent in football for stripping the titles and I would fully support the club to fight a decision like that.

Rangers being stripped of the trophies they won through cheating wouldn't be setting any precedent. Just a few years ago Juventus were stripped of 2 league titles and there's loads of other examples.

Ally McCoist's went way down in my estimations with his comments on this last week.. A bit of humility having been caught cheating rather than playing the victim would be nice.

[James P]

I do feel it's fair by the way, getting put into Div3 and having to pay all debts sounds like a reasonable punishment

Paying your debts isn't a punishment. You're supposed to pay your debts!

[Claret&Blue,Thru&]

Paying your debts isn't a punishment. You're supposed to pay your debts!

And when did they pay their debts exactly?

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Think UCLA were stripped of their titles for cheating. Having players play for you in whatever sport you are in, who for whatever reason, should not have been playing is cheating.

Several examples of riders being stripped of titles, teams, and University teams being stripped of titles through cheating have been given. Yet you fail to see it. I am all for sticking up for your team. But your mentality and others like you have yet again failed to grasp the facts.

You gained entry to the SFL when you shouldn't have but see this as "fair dos." Again as pointed out paying your tax bill isn't a penalty. You were fined 160 odd K. We were fined 25 M !!!! 25 effin' Million for not being guilty of the crime charged. We were also fined 5.5 M for the crime we were found guilty of.

So your 160K was fairly light. You were deducted 10 points which is already in the rules for going into administration during a season. You were supposed to present 3 years of certified accounts in order to gain entry to the SFL. You didn't be were accepted anyway. What about other clubs who were waiting on a similar entry ? They got shoved to the side presumably to accommodate Sevco.

Why should people feel a bit angry about a lack of justice in general ? The are multiple threads on the NUMB forum about people who didn't get the penalty that hey deserved for committing a crime. We have treated the news of your club similarly. Yet we are accused of having a vendetta. Similarly to McCoist and Green.

But we lay out facts and because of this are accused of "bigotry" and "unfairness" and kicking people when they are down. All we ask/asked if for "justice to be applied." You seem to think that justice in the footballing sense be chucked out of the window.

Small wonder if your views as a fan, are seen as typical of Rangers fans in general when people do not agree with your views. Yet you take the same mentality and argue against facts presented as people ganging up against your poor understood club and feel that paying what should be due as "punishment enough."

When we feel you got more than a fair shake of the stick. Way more than you should have.

Shakes head and rollie eyes emoticon.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The last remaining task is to ensure that the sporting records are adjusted to account for the 5 SPL titles, 4 Scottish Cups, and 6 Scottish League Cups won during the 11 years of paying players with money they did not have. Drastic player cuts, or insolvency, sometime in the 2006-08 period would have been a virtual certainty if Rangers had not been avoiding tax. It is worth emphasising that had Rangers paid these players the same net salaries during the EBT period of 2001-2011, their wage bill would have been almost £50m higher (unadjusted for inflation). That extra £50m would have had to have been paid by Lloyds / HBOS or a chainsaw taken to the playing squad. This is the value of the financial advantage gained prior to Craig Whyte taking over at Ibrox.

[Wembley1966]

What I find most shocking is that, despite all the talk about it, nobody has even thought about starting legal proceedings against either David Murray or Craig Whyte for their crimes.

HMRC were all talk with 'We'll get out money from Whyte', but that seems to have been the end of it.

They will start legal proceedings and try and get money out of Whyte.

HMRC specifically objected to the CVA so that they could appoint BDO as liquidators who have full legal powers to do a very thorough forensic financial analysis of what had been going on, including the specific circumstances surrounded the take-over by Whyte - and also Green's takeover. There is also the fact that Rangers have still not published audited accounts that were due in March this year (that had they stayed out of administration would have meant they would have been expelled from the SPL anyway) and there's something very messy in there that someone didn't want making public - BDO will find out. Until Rangers are liquidated BDO can't start to do anything - Duff & Phelps are still running the show as administrators.

Not only will Murray come in for some detailed investigation from BDO, but also 'if' the findings of the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) - aka 'The Big Tax Case' are made public he will be greatly implicated as will his company - Murray International Holdings. It will also implicate a number of other people - players, managers and ex-managers - hence why Sevco were desperate to avoid any sanctions arising from the alleged use of dual contracts.

Just be patient - these things take time, but HMRC will already have briefed BDO on where to look first. The full investigation and subsequent legal proceedings could take up to 10 years to conclude!

[devonshire flu]

Does anyone know when the oldco are due to be liquidated?

Oh, and I agree with the point that being forced to pay your football debts isn't a punishment.

So far Sevco have been punished by losing 10 points for going into administration. That's it. And they still finished second.

Other punishments: £160K that they haven't paid. Transfer ban that hasn't started. Out of SPL 'cos the oldco went to liquidation. Into D3 was a result: Spartans can't get in and they have the 3 years accounts that are supposedly needed.

So, as of now, years of cheating has resulted in a meaningless minus 10 points. And Green & McCoist still claim to be aggrieved.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

..........
Into D3 was a result: Spartans can't get in and they have the 3 years accounts that are supposedly needed....................

Grounds for legal action?

[York Ham(mer)]

Does anyone know when the oldco are due to be liquidated?

Before the end of this month, I've heard.

And the way, Servo Scotland changed their name to The Rangers Football Club Ltd yesterday. At the same time, Rangers Football Club PLC - that's the one in administration - changed their name to RFC 2012 PLC.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

The Scottish Premier League has announced it has appointed an independent commission to look into alleged EBT (Employment Benefit Trust) payments and arrangements made by Rangers in relation to players. The commission will determine whether the club breached the relevant SPL rules in relation to alleged EBT payments and arrangements for players between 2000 and 2011.

The commission will have powers to determine what sanctions, if any, are appropriate if they decide that any breaches occurred.

The SPL probe was launched in early March and delayed for months by the failure of Rangers' administrators to hand over documents.

There has been talk of the Ibrox club being stripped of titles if found guilty and the issue is a sticking point regarding Rangers newco's bid for membership of the Scottish Football Association.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/ne ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[York Ham(mer)]

Tomorrow's Scotsman, echoing what C'a has posted.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

The commission will have powers to determine what sanctions, if any, are appropriate if they decide that any breaches occurred.

That's the only bit that bothers me....

[evomutant]

The commission will have powers to determine what sanctions, if any, are appropriate if they decide that any breaches occurred.

That's the only bit that bothers me....

That's just token "fair trial" b*llocks.

They know, and we know, and they we know that Rangers are guilty and deserve the book thrown at them. But they can't actually say that.

Yet.

[Matt of iron]

Thought you guys might like this.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Gotta be summat wrong with my browser/browser settings.

Matt. Nowt shows up.

[Kent Bubble Blower]

Gotta be summat wrong with my browser/browser settings.

Matt. Nowt shows up.

Nope, it's not you. It's not a picture he's linking to but some page on Google mail.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

cheers mate

been having a bit of a disastrous computer time so I did automatically think......

[Matt of iron]

Works now guys.

[Kent Bubble Blower]

LOL