Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby the pink palermo on Wed May 30, 2012 7:41 am

The players revert to their correct wages in a couple of days which ought to put pressure on whoever is funding Rangers cash reserves, so , no doubt they will be attempting to offload players .

Can't wait until the first players agent asks for a "loyalty" payment in exchange for agreeing to leave the club, after all they don't do walking away .

£1m a month minimum in terms of cash burn - and that assumes they have revenue from ticket sales , without it the cash burn is higher .

If I were a players agent, i'd be advising my client to sit tight ,tell everyone he loves Rangers, couldn't bear to leave , but had already sacrificed 3 months pay for the cause ......

My prediction is if they get out of the first administration , a second will follow, follow quickly
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Wed May 30, 2012 8:56 am

the pink palermo wrote:£1m a month minimum in terms of cash burn - and that assumes they have revenue from ticket sales , without it the cash burn is higher .

They should have ticket sales, Ticketus have decided to bang their heads against the Craig Whyte brick wall and let Rangers be.

This is by far the most interesting thing to happen in Scottish football for quite some time. If Rangers are as guilty as they appear to have been for the last 10 years the action taken by the SFA should amount to nothing less than a purge. If it doesn't it really is the final nail in the coffinof Scottish football, although to hammer it in they'll have to exhume the grave first.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Wed May 30, 2012 10:44 am

This is what Regan sad a while ago, after Celtic tore their defence a new one.

However, with regard to the timing of the suspension we must accept that if our rules cannot be enforced in a court of law then they cannot be imposed and it is foolish to waste money defending such a point.


Wonder if they will now change their point of view :think:
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Wembley1966 on Wed May 30, 2012 10:49 am

QuintonNimoy wrote:They should have ticket sales, Ticketus have decided to bang their heads against the Craig Whyte brick wall and let Rangers be.

Whilst Ticketus have said that they are going after Craig Whyte (more in the case of a liquidation) - they have not explicitly stated that they are a creditor and wish to be included in the CVA.

10. The Ticketus claim is estimated as per the principal sum outstanding. Ticketus final claim is to be determined, it may be higher if liquidated damages are due, or lower if their claim is found to not be valid against the Company.

Duff & Phelps have included them in the creditors, but if they don't claim, that's £26m available to the rest of the creditors and £26m less income from season tickets for the next 4 years. A CVA without Ticketus included is the worst possible outcome for Rangers - other than expulsion for all the other things going on.

Also they're not going to get ticket sales with all the uncertainty going on and not whilst they don't have a license to play in the SPL next year - awaiting audited accounts to be submitted by the revised deadline of 15 June, and any potential fall-out from yesterday's Court of Session ruling. The CVA won't happen - the creditors vote on the proposal on 14th June and without the CVA they go into liquidation. That means they don't have to publish the accounts - and there's something in them that they don't won't people to see - possibly an auditors comment about a company's ability to continue as a going concern or a specific payment made to somebody. These are last years accounts - not current ones so would have been finalised last year. If they were going to publish the accounts they would have done so by 31 March so they could compete in Europe next season.

The CVA is set up to fail.

And remember - this has all been planned for the last few years with liquidation the objective - wipe out all the debts and start with a newco in the SPL. Keep the club going until the Big Tax Case is announced and blame HMRC for putting them into liquidation. They assumed that they would get revenues from the Champions League and not get knocked out before the group stage like they did - and then they got knocked out of the Europa League straight-away in August without making the group stage of that. That's a £10m shortfall in income that had to be found from somewhere - so they didn't pay their VAT & PAYE and as a result HMRC forced administration on them. Since then the objective is to try to keep going - hence the charade of the administrators not putting creditors first and raking up £5.5m in fees, legal and professional costs and potential buyers coming and going and last and final deadlines being constantly put back until along comes someone else that will buy Rangers with Rangers own money! No one wants to be seen to kill the company off - but the Big Tax Case decision is not forthcoming so someone has to. - HMRC that won't accept the CVA?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Headtheball on Wed May 30, 2012 10:59 am

Haven't Duff & Phelps shot themselves in the foot by taking the SFA /SPL to court over the transfer embargo?
Even though they won the case, they have acted against their own football association by taking it to a court of law. This is forbidden by UEFA and FIFA rules and the precedent has been set before whereby UEFA tell the national football association to expel that club or all other clubs and the national team are barred from European football.
The decision to expel Rangers may now have moved from the SFA to UEFA as a result of this short sighted court case.
I'll suppose we'll know if this is true in the coming weeks.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Wed May 30, 2012 11:37 am

Headtheball wrote:Haven't Duff & Phelps shot themselves in the foot by taking the SFA /SPL to court over the transfer embargo?
Even though they won the case, they have acted against their own football association by taking it to a court of law. This is forbidden by UEFA and FIFA rules and the precedent has been set before whereby UEFA tell the national football association to expel that club or all other clubs and the national team are barred from European football.
The decision to expel Rangers may now have moved from the SFA to UEFA as a result of this short sighted court case.
I'll suppose we'll know if this is true in the coming weeks.


FIFA already spoke out against Rangers taking the SFA to court, but that's partly because the SFA did not give Rangers the option to take this case to the CaS I think.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby James P on Wed May 30, 2012 11:54 am

On Betfair, Celtic are 1.21 to win the title next season. Given all this Rangers madness is there any reason why this isn't free money?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Wed May 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:Whilst Ticketus have said that they are going after Craig Whyte (more in the case of a liquidation) - they have not explicitly stated that they are a creditor and wish to be included in the CVA.

They have said they won't pursue their contract for the ticket sales with Rangers though, so that barrier to them getting tickets is out of the way. That was the point I was making.

Regarding the CVA the new Rangers owner has been wielding the Newco threat since day 1. If that's a path that he is seriouly willing and able to go down (a complex consideration) then the matter of future ticket sales to the CVA is less important because there won't be any. It may just be a bargaining position or it may be his real intention, time will tell. If he ends up paying out millions in future ticket sales then he'll have made a huge misstep in my opinion.

It's also worth remembering as Gnome has stated that HMRC now has powers to pre-tax new enterprises where a history of unpaid tax exists. It would be interesting to see if they can slap a new Rangers with a multi million pound tax bill before they kick a ball.
Last edited by QuintonNimoy on Wed May 30, 2012 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Wed May 30, 2012 1:03 pm

James P wrote:On Betfair, Celtic are 1.21 to win the title next season. Given all this Rangers madness is there any reason why this isn't free money?

Depends on what you think the SFA may or may not do to keep Rangers both in the league an competitive, or how much Celtic will cut back their squad with no Rangers to compete with.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Wed May 30, 2012 1:53 pm

Would Celtic cut their squad as they stand to lose substantial revenues from not making the CL group stages ???

Getting other Scottish clubs kicked out of European competition would suit Rangers while they got back on track shirley ?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Wed May 30, 2012 1:57 pm

At this point the only thing standing in the way of Celtic not making the CL group stages is their own ability of bottling it.

FIFA have as of today not made any attempts to kick Scottish teams out of European football.

I also don't think Celtic need to downsize, they have sound financial grounds and don't need to cut their squad.
It could impact their possibility to get new players, but even then I think they won't be hurt that much.

After all, it's not like they didn't manage over the last few years :clap:
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Wed May 30, 2012 2:36 pm

AL

FA's aren't suppose to allow their member clubs to sue through the courts if I read that correctly. I remember the ***** that was going on when we were being sued. Th Blunts were'nt supposed to sue their FA's so there are rules in place to cover it.

Am sure some of our other posters have covered that route before, if not on this thread then for sure when our things was going on
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Wed May 30, 2012 4:31 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:AL

FA's aren't suppose to allow their member clubs to sue through the courts if I read that correctly. I remember the ***** that was going on when we were being sued. Th Blunts were'nt supposed to sue their FA's so there are rules in place to cover it.

Am sure some of our other posters have covered that route before, if not on this thread then for sure when our things was going on


I know, but the SFA didn't give Rangers the option to take it to the CAS (which would be allowed if I recall), this is something FIFA said themselves.

So they took it to a civil court, and that's why FIFA got pissed.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Wed May 30, 2012 4:55 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Would Celtic cut their squad as they stand to lose substantial revenues from not making the CL group stages ???

Why bother? Commit to big wages far beyond those needed to secure the domestic silverware and still risk CL elimination against FC Zog from the Albanian league or pocket the difference from the lower wages as the ultra loyal throngs still pack the stadium.

I'd probably put my feet up and exercise option B, but I am a lazy man.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby York Ham(mer) on Wed May 30, 2012 7:34 pm

Something to watch out for, Mark Daly, the BBC Scotland Investigates reporter, has tweeted: "Revealed: the emails which set out the deal between Craig Whyte & Duff & Phelps in the days leading up to administration. Online at midnight."
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Wed May 30, 2012 7:37 pm

I think that even the SPL champs have to play qualifiers and both them and Rangers record in that part isn't exactly over flowing with great success in general.

Isn't the Group stage worth 10M min now ? That's a lot of dosh for anyone, and even more to those in the SPL.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Swiss Pauli on Wed May 30, 2012 8:22 pm

Prize money from the group stage would be around £14m plus £800k for a win and £300k for a draw. Add £1-2m in gate money and you have a serious boost to a club that turned over £52m in the 2010-11 season (with a similar amount likely for 2011-12, based on the interim results for July-Dec 2011).

Celtic are trying to offload some fringe players and sign a couple of 'quality' players this summer. Given their budget, it's more likely to be a Thorgan Hazard than an Eden Hazard.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Wed May 30, 2012 8:55 pm

Rangers sanctions light, says ex-SFA boss (BBC)

''Football would survive without Rangers, maybe not at the same level, and the game would may be lose some fans - but so be it,'' he said.
"If you look after the sport the money will follow you, if you look after the money you'll kill the sport.''
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Wed May 30, 2012 10:02 pm

Scottish Premier League clubs have taken on responsibility for deciding on newco applications but have rejected plans for fixed penalties for such clubs, chief executive Neil Doncaster has announced.

That means the clubs themselves will vote on whether to admit Charles Green's Rangers into the SPL if he fails to secure a deal with creditors and buys the club's assets through a new company


So basically they want the option of deciding whatever. If nothing is in writing (they have already climbed down from a 15 point penalty to a 10 point penalty) then they can treat each case "on it's own merit."

As I said, I would put 100 quid on them playing in the SPL, no sanctions except the 10 point penalty and that's it. Lots of gobble deegook, lots of hand-wringing and eventually no transfer ban.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby York Ham(mer) on Wed May 30, 2012 10:32 pm

To adopt sanctions for a newco would mean accepting the principle that a newco could join the SPL. The result of today is that there is still no guarantee that a newco will be allowed in.
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