Carlton'sGoal wrote:Just to add to how much of a shift he's put in, in the last 2 games he has run the equivalent of going from Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium 5 times.
Or from the last row in 222 to the pitch just once!
Great to see him back on pace though. Agree with above - his game demands structure around him, which is important for any player of his position (re: Obiang)
So pleased he has got back and improved. That said he can easily be improved upon in Jan. We won't make progress unless we are ruthless. Sentiment should not come into it.
Carlton'sGoal wrote:Loved the effort last night, ran himself into the ground like he always does when we need him, although am I the only one who thought he made some odd decisions with the ball when we were under the cosh.
That'll always happen once fatigue and tiredness sets in, especially against super fit talented sides who keep the ball for fun like Arsenal and Chelsea. It's just a case of players playing through it as best they can because the demands on the body and mind will test anyone. Regardless of who it is, you have allow the occasional poor pass or decision.
Carlton'sGoal wrote:Just to add to how much of a shift he's put in, in the last 2 games he has run the equivalent of going from Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium 5 times.
And he alone in our playing squad would know the way there and back.
Colours never run wrote:That'll always happen once fatigue and tiredness sets in, especially against super fit talented sides who keep the ball for fun like Arsenal and Chelsea. It's just a case of players playing through it as best they can because the demands on the body and mind will test anyone. Regardless of who it is, you have allow the occasional poor pass or decision.
Yeah true, tired minds and that. It was more when we were on top against Chelsea he gave it away sloppily a few times. As I said though, just an observation, not knocking the man. I think he's quite near getting back to his best if the last 3 performances are anything to go by.
still say that marks "improvement" of form is because we now have a team set up to defend as a team.. rather than leaving one of the slowest players we have trying to chase shadows.. he played well last night because he could get in great positions with others in the team applying pressure.
for example when Lanzini took out Wilshire for the booking that was clearly what hes used to having to do.. because now mark was there ready as we are defending as a team!
basically team looks more together now which allows Noble to pull the strings more.
Another thing that for me shows that the man has some class is that when he has been left out he has never complained. He is our longest serving player, who has come up through the academy, is captain and yet doesn't feel that his place in the team is a foregone conclusion. He is reliable (over the long term - I'm not saying that he never has a bad game), efficient, hard-working, values that I think Moyes will appreciate and most fans do too.
He's a man who leads by example and whatever his deficiencies, he remains a great servant to our club.
I would love to see a few more like him come through.
westham,eggyandchips wrote:
Is this a new law they're implementing?
No it's just this modern generation raised on Sky Sports media hype and Fifa in which the whole game about pace and power is cloudying young minds in to how football is played, the youth solution in a lot of cases is just add pace, stick your 100m sprinter in, yeah great they might smashed the ball over the top but will put it into row z every time. Give me footballers like Mark every day of the week or in some cases you get both like a Ronaldo, Bale, Lewandsoki etc
fmgod wrote:No it's just this modern generation raised on Sky Sports media hype and Fifa in which the whole game about pace and power is cloudying young minds in to how football is played, the youth solution in a lot of cases is just add pace, stick your 100m sprinter in, yeah great they might smashed the ball over the top but will put it into row z every time.
I'm pretty sure you're describing English football in the later 80's and 90's. Football in England is a lot more technical focused since the youth shake up at the FA. The days of having a big center half boot it to the quick striker are being consigned to the history books.
Carlton I would say the quick players have moved into the midfielders/wingers and full backs though rather than being your centre back and striker. also the percentage of English players in the top league and playing often is massively different to back in the 80's, I mean the percentage of poor footballers that play full back or wingers and can't actually do their job but have ridiculous pace is very high
The first tournament I can remember is 98 and pretty much every player in the England squad is a good footballer, even your pacer players like Owen,McManaman are phenomenal footballers.
fmgod wrote:I mean the percentage of poor footballers that play full back or wingers and can't actually do their job but have ridiculous pace is very high
I would say that this is down more to a change in formation, I get what you mean though. You get a lot more wingbacks who cant defend as they have been moved back from being traditional wingers. The obsession with pace is more down to formation though, rather than ability, if you want to play wingbacks then they are going to have to be quick to get up and down, it just happens to be that players like that don't usually have to improve their technique as much because they can rely on pace. I can think of plenty of players down the years who have gone from hero to zero over night due to losing a yard. I don't think that pace has become a modern obsession. In top teams i'd say it's more the oppposite, Darren Bent was rapid but he wouldn't have got near anywhere near the spurs team nowadays.
Suppose looking at it from a foreign perspective though, Barcelona was built on technical players then even your likes of Alves were pacey but superb footballers, Real Madrid currently, Juventes, Bayern Munich. The difference in this country we have adopted a much more physical and pace centric style that has been detrimental the last few years for both English clubs in Europe and England as a national team. I mean things will turn around a bit now as you've got top managers like Pep playing football as City, Chelsea are quality apart from maybe Moses and Kante more athletes, Liverpool have some superb technical players and United well it's Mourinho.
I think as a footballing country we need to go back to scouting actual footballers not athletes and then turn them into footballers, it's why we dominate youth groups, as we're bigger, stronger, faster, fitter but by the age everyone catches up, we are chasing shadows and the ball moves quicker than the man.
What a man, what a club legend in my eyes
Has a bit of an iffy spell (as everyone has), knuckles down, gets on with it, comes back into the team and puts in a real shift. His pass to Hernandez was a thing of beauty, not long after the threw himself into a block at the other end
There should always be a place for Noble in the team, and I am absolutely gutted he never got the cap he deserved
fmgod wrote:it's why we dominate youth groups, as we're bigger, stronger, faster, fitter but by the age everyone catches up, we are chasing shadows and the ball moves quicker than the man.
That I agree with, I think it's shifting though since they changed the youth set up in the mid 2000s. Players like Phil Foden and Jadon Sancho are definitely products of a technique centric training set up.
Hopefully so, the other night made me laugh, you had Rashford(next England saviour) who is mainly pace based but on the same pitch Jesus who is class and only a youngster still and Sane only 21 and Martial who is 22(not lived fully up to the hype yet)
Anyway I'll let this thread get back Noble, pleasure Carlton
