Frank Lampard - Research Question

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Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby HeadHammerShark on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:43 pm

All - I'm writing a retro piece on Frank Lampard Jr and trying to get to the bottom of the abuse that he suffered while at the Club because, primarily, I don't really remember him getting the level of stick that he states. So, a couple of questions, if I may:

a) 15th March 1997 - he broke his leg at Aston Villa and claims he left the pitch to cheers. I've asked on Twitter and there is a very mixed response to whether that is what actually happened. Were you there and, if so, what is your memory of it? (NB: this was his third ever league start for West Ham and 18th appearance of any kind, so the commonly accepted notion that people hold that he was unpopular because Redknapp kept leaving him on when he should have been substituted can't really apply here).

b) Just generally - are there *specific* instances people can remember of him getting abuse above and beyond the customary frustration that all players face? (and yes, I've seen the Scott Canham Rollerbowl video!). Again, I'm trying to establish whether I have rose tinted glasses and am choosing to recall the whole thing in a different way than it is now portrayed.

Thanks all, and apologies to the mods if this didn't need a new thread, but I couldn't find one that seemed to fit.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Bramwell on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:52 pm

HHS - not a wholesale crowd reaction, but I recall watching a home game with Bolton Wanderers where FLJ picked up the ball deep into his own half, ran out wide with the ball, played it inside, carried ON running the full length of the pitch to make himself available for a pass, and eventually received the ball out wide again in the attacking third. So by now he has run - both with and without the ball - from around 10 yards outside his own penalty area to around 10 yards from the by-line. His attempted cross was poor and was easily cut out - cue a chorus of moronic abuse from the East Stand Upper where I say in those days. All that the majority sat around me could see was that poor, final ball. All I saw was a player who had almost run the complete length of the pitch and was now hands on haunches, blowing out of his Madley.

I knew THEN that this affair would end badly.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Doc H Ball on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:04 pm

This is my take HHS.

I was in the away end at Villa and there were some cheers when he was carried off. 'Course nobody knew he'd 'broke a leg' and some were venting at the apparent nepotism playing him in a struggling team. It was nothing like he pretends.

I think some fans looked at Lampard as an assistant coach and knew it came from Redknapp's favour rather than on merit and took it out on his boy.

I was also at the Rollerball forum. There was the famous Scott Canham comment from one attendee but again Frank's blown it out of proportion for his own ends. To his credit, Harry pulled the bloke up and said words to the effect of 'mark my words this lad will be a regular for England' to some laughter. Just shows how much he knew and we didn't.

I hope you get to put the record straight a bit. When Redknapp walked, his brother in law inevitably went with him. For Frank to say he'd never play for us again was understandable but proved him guilty of the same family loyalty he denied.

When he arrived at Chelsea he slated our training in comparison, missing the irony. He's said a lot of other things as well exaggerating what happened to justify it including writing countless articles on how the 'abuse' was the making of him. No it wasn't - it was having a father working in the game, having football in his genes, being given a chance, taking it and turning into a brilliant player and all at lil' ol' West Ham who 'mean nothing' to him.

He's a smug **** who cut off his roots.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby sicknote on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:07 pm

I was at the villa game, whoever told him that was doing our support no favours at all, or him , we all clapped him off the fact back then he had to come to the tunnel right next to the away support, meant that he was clapped off all the way along the pitch and tunnel, nothing was ever said about this ever, until the book was written , suddenly this story came out , and was published in the paper who paid for the privilege of doing so , and milked this story for all it was worth, it did not happen


We were proud of him coming through our ranks as much and probably more so due to his dads popularity with the support, as we were for rio, michael carrick and joe cole, but he was always subject to much more critic, as with the territory of being his dads son and his dads style, there was a comparison, sadly as well there by a few was nepotism, and having uncle pucking the team and dad coaching, it was hard for young frank to escape that, but we were as a fan base imo proud of the lad,

He was mostly cricised a bit for being always picked even if he had a poor game, but if you looked at possible replacements it wasnt a plentiful amount of attacking midfielders in our squad

He was often accused of marking the ref, which then meant he was hiding, this was coupled with the thought he doesnt get dropped, bit harsh in hindsight, as he tended to sit in behind the front two, which invaribly is where the ref was, but it did sometimes look like he was out of games, but as a kid learning that was to be expected

The teenage puppybfat thing, never was an issue at our place, but as soon as he went to that club in west london, it was raised



As for him moving to that club, he had to, the fact we got the money we did at the time was good business, his dad and uncle had been sacked the club was in a financial mess and we had already shown with Rio we were not going to turn down a big fee for our youth, so show no signs of ambition, he took that move with both hands and proved how good a footballer he was, and begrudgingly as i despise that club, he was a top player for them in a sea of forign superstar high cost players, and if anything shone above them all, for that as a club WHUFC should take some pride in our clubs early development of him as a man and footballler


At Tony Carr's testimonial he came with John Terry and Joe Cole and showed his respect by donnig the testimonial kit with the other two, being all introduced to the crowd and all responding to the warmth shown, we as a club should be proud of him, he has been quoted and advised poorly in his years when speaking about our club and us, he is the pantomime villain


But a hell of a player

That penalty miss at the bridge in the league cup was magic :wink:
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby WorcesterWHU on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:11 pm

I can't really remember much animosity towards Frank whilst I was going - maybe more at aways that I didn't go to, I don't know. At the time I always felt we were a better team when he was in it, despite thinking he went missing when he was in it.

I always felt any perceived animosity was overblown and over-embellished, personally. And I've got no beef with Lampard to be honest.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby cockney hammer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:13 pm

like the doc i was at the villa game and where i was standing there was no booing just clapping as he was taken off


he had a pop at the coaching staff saying they was eating bacon rolls etc was it not his dad on the coaching staff


he never ever has a good word to say about west ham united i find him a really nasty bit of work if it was not for west ham he would not have had the career he did
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby ajhammer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:25 pm

Regarding question 2: this wasn’t when he was playing for us so I’m unsure as to whether this has any relevance to your research however after we lost 1-0 to Chelsea at Stamford bridge (jimmy walked saved a lampard penalty and kezman scored for them iirc) westham we’re leaving the stadium and lampard was sat on a balcony sipping champagne when he was spotted the usual “big fat frank” and “10 men couldn’t carry” started ringing round. I just remember him raising his champagne glass to us. I was very young at the time so memory may be hazy but in that instance the abuse he received wasn’t any more hostile than we give other players we dislike.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby essexguy on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:44 pm

Yes I remember him getting a lot of stick because some fans thought he was being kept in the team because he was Frank Lampards son.

He was always the first player for fans to start getting on his back when the team weren't playing well. Don't really blame him for hating West Ham as I don't really blame West Ham fans for hating him.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Georgee Paris on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:47 pm

It might have been after the villa game I was sitting in Brentwood Pizza Hut enjoying a pepperoni passion when I noticed a young frank in the corner with a pal of his. I was surprised to see he was taking full advantage of the ‘eat as much as you like’ £5.00 buffet deal. There was no stopping him. He easily consumed his own weight in pizzas. After his meal he was ruined. It was all the staff could do to roll him to the front door. He didn’t even leave a tip. His mate worked in the construction business and told staff to leave him propped up outside the front door and he’d be back in a moment to drop him home. You can imagine the ‘Towie’ crowds faces nowadays had they witnessed that bloke driving up Brentwood high street...and even they would have been amazed to see that man struggling to lift him onto the forklift truck.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby webby the iron on Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:40 pm

Sat in the BML when he was playing. Remember him getting a fair bit of stick if ever something didn’t go his way on the pitch, but it was all based around the perceived special treatment he received because of his Dad. He couldn’t win in many respects.

Personally, I think it was partly down to the fact that this was a time where there was a real influx of influential and ‘exciting’ foreign players and that made the unproven British players seem a bit underwhelming.

One comment I always remember is someone shouted “come back when you’ve got a beard”. Again, clearly a reference to his much admired Dad.

Hasn’t done himself many favours since he left though, with a bit too much embellishment,
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Westcliffspur on Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:05 pm

I never heard him booed at Upton Park and I must have seen 50 odd games with him playing. i had a drink with a group of old players and West Hams fans years ago after he stopped playing. I found him very uptight and almost depressive. I don't know if he was suffering depression back then (and it was no one else's business really but I've wondered a few times since if he was suffering from depression then. He obviously shouldn't have been drinking like that if he was.) I liked him as a defender and always thought he put in a good shift but admittedly that was at Upton Park or at White Hart Lane, Highbury or Loftus Road..
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby HeadHammerShark on Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:17 pm

Westcliffspur wrote:I never heard him booed at Upton Park and I must have seen 50 odd games with him playing. i had a drink with a group of old players and West Hams fans years ago after he stopped playing. I found him very uptight and almost depressive. I don't know if he was suffering depression back then (and it was no one else's business really but I've wondered a few times since if he was suffering from depression then. He obviously shouldn't have been drinking like that if he was.) I liked him as a defender and always thought he put in a good shift but admittedly that was at Upton Park or at White Hart Lane, Highbury or Loftus Road..


Thanks for this - just so I can be clear, are you referring to Frank Sr or Jr here?

Cheers to others for the responses. I appreciate you taking the time.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Up the Junction on Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:57 pm

This clearly hadn't affected Frank Jnr to a great extent by August 2000, when he stated "I'm West Ham through and through, and I am happy to stay."

http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=124040

HHS, assuming you haven't tried this already, if you drop "lampard" in the 'Search KUMB' search box to the top right of your screen you'll get a list of related stories pubbed here on KUMB. There's a one or two in the archive that may also be of interest to you. :thup:
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Westcliffspur on Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:14 pm

Head Hammer Shark

Sincere apologies. I missed seeing the junior in your question. I was talking about his father.

That's why I was so surprised because the father was always so well liked in my experience.

So sorry mate.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Rio on Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:40 pm

Sicknote’s nailed it.

The Villa Park incident has suffered through the mists of time. One or 2 comments may have been made, but whosale booing is nonsense, and only serves to fuel a post West Ham agenda he’s had.

Any stick at home games was only in proportion to what everyone received. Again it’s been heightened, but everyone on the playing staff got it.

When I popped to the training ground Frank was one of the most polite and accommodating to the kids who wanted an autograph/photo.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Kentish Hammer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:24 pm

I wasn't at the Villa game so can't comment.

I was a season ticket holder at the time he came through tho and I don't think the stick he got was bad at all. Andy Impey certainly got it a lot worse.

What I will say is that the reason he ended up getting so much abuse when he returned in later years was because people like me, who did nothing but support him 100% and encourage him in everything he did when he played for us, had to then listen to him slag the club I love off endlessly and behave like a child whenever he scored against us (which was nowhere near as often as people seem to think by the way).

He took the abuse he received from a minority (of fans) as a reason to lay into the majority. For that he is a pathetic, scummy bell-end.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby hammer1975 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:50 pm

Similar to Kentish Hammer

Think everyone knew the lad had talent but at a young age he had a tendency to go missing a little in games (can’t have helped that Rio came through at the same time and was like a seasoned pro from day one). Don’t recall him ever being booed for starting but some took Redknapp’s aversion to subbing certain players too far and you could hear ironic cheers from a small minority on the odd occasion they were subbed.

That being said I know many fans who were big fans - posters on walls and all that jazz

People seemed understanding that he had to go when Redknapp did - IIRC most were surprised we got so much after selling Rio for £18m

Contrast that with now - a media theme of criticising West Ham and the West Ham fans since he left has turned the majority against him. I donwonder whether he felt that public criticism of West Ham added to his bond with Chelsea and England fans in a ‘young man that overcame the odds’ kind of way.

He thanked the West Ham fans for messages of support when his mum passed, felt for him then and it seems like he does have some love for the club deep down.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby mike1961 on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:04 pm

I remember Frank jnr being booed at Upton Park on a fairly regular basis - it used to annoy me because I rated him and thought he deserved a chance to prove himself. I went off him completely when he left us and started bad-mouthing us.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby Gerblatz on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:22 pm

I wasn’t at the Villa game, but wonder how well a young player suffering the agony that accompanies a broken leg, was able to discern between the the claret blue of Villa and our fans at the time. Is he certain it wasn’t Villa fans giving him the stick? From my recollection of the time there was some vitriolic comments about the nepotism, but nowhere near as he has made out. His story telling lost him far more respect.

The only other event I can tell you about was when he had already left for Chelsea. My brother had ordered a takeaway from an Indian restaurant in Gidea Park and went to pick it up. Inside, sitting at a table were both Franks Snr and Jnr. On seeing them both, my brother said ‘It’s good to meet you Frank’ Young Frank put his hand out to shake my brother’s hand upon which my brother had already gestured his open hand towards Frank Snr and shook his instead, saying what a pleasure it was to meet him. He hadn’t recognised Frank Jnr at first. :)
Last edited by Gerblatz on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frank Lampard - Research Question

Postby johnnyb on Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:42 am

My take on him is that he has always exaggerated the abuse he says he received from West Ham fans. He left because his dad and uncle were sacked and you can understand that, at least I can. Imho he was a very good player but to me has always had a high degree of smugness about him. His dad was proper West Ham but having met him, I could see where his son got that smugness from. Plus his dad was a useless coach.
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