Retractable seating at the OS

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gavrosh
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

We're going around in circles here. I think its fairly clear that retractable/ extendable seating isnt an option given the budget, hence why the talk has moved across to temporary/ demountable. 3 days sounds like quite a tight schedule but if youve ever seen how quickly riggers work on events, its probably quite doable. the important thing is to make sure that a structure that seats a number of thousands of people isnt going to do damage to the underlying track.
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Rays Rock
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Rays Rock »

Correct again Gavrosh,

The thread will go round and round in circles just like all of the other Stadium threads because people want to keep bringing their own for / against veiws into it.
It would be nice to have a thread that purely discussed the modification of the stadium at a technical level.
Lets be very clear here, nobody on this thread knows how far £10 millon will go to improving viewing distances at the olympic stadium.
Never the less, we can be reasonably certain that we are thinking along the lines of a moveable / detatchable seating system along the lines that you suggested and I have previously dicussed with the club.

I also think it would be very fair to assume that this ammount of money invested into it will mean that we will end up with a system that will look far less temporary than the one at Cagliari. The stands erected at Cagliari are pretty much no different to the type that you would expect to find at the 18th hole at the Open.
We are also led to believe that the club have / are consulting architects from Populus for solutions to the problem. Which again indicates that we certainly won't end up with a strcture that looks like it's made up of scaffolding components.

As an Engineer (Not Civil but Structural Surveyor) I do believe there is a solution that would allow the stands to not have to be completely dismantled / erected every time that they needed to be moved into place.

Digging down would be extremely expensive and to be fair to ourselves, we don't know the exact design to the sub-structure of the current lower tier. But I would Imagine that seeing as digging down was never part of the original design, doing so could end up doing more damage to the sub-structure than good.
Just as a foot note, the water table would'nt technically be an issue with digging down. The Stratford international platform is currently way below the water table level and I believe they have used a continous pumping system to protect the platform. This again would be very expensive on such a large scale at the Olympic stadium though.
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sutts07
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by sutts07 »

Thought of this while looking at the extension built on the Sydney stadium for the Olympics (which was later removed and covered with a roof).

The idea would be very expensive and would involve an innovation within stadium design but if the backers were there (and who is to say they won't be once we have moved) anything would be possible!

The outline of my brainwave was to have bank of seats behind each goal as the upper tier that can be pushed down in front of the existing lower tier.
It would take a fair bit of innovation and design but once upon a time everyone would have thought a closing roof was impossible too!

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Mr_Andersonn
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

Viewing distances are not that bad at the Olympic Stadium guys, check this link out and see what the turks had to put up with a few years back :)

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=roman+ ... 11&bih=413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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MikeNewell'sOldBoys
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by MikeNewell'sOldBoys »

Mr_Andersonn wrote:Viewing distances are not that bad at the Olympic Stadium guys, check this link out and see what the turks had to put up with a few years back

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=roman+ ... 11&bih=413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No roof :thdn:
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hoopsta
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by hoopsta »

Mr_Andersonn wrote:Viewing distances are not that bad at the Olympic Stadium guys, check this link out and see what the turks had to put up with a few years back :)

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=roman+ ... 11&bih=413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still its very close to the action unlike the OS
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Doc H Ball
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Doc H Ball »

Retractable seating is NOT an option. My first post on this site was after a visit to the OS with my brother in law who is an architect who told me very clearly that the lower permanent tier would have to be ripped out to accommodate such. I then got a fair amount of stick from others saying Karren Brady knew what she was doing.

Anyway, it is not possible so forget that.

The stadium tour guides are now openly talking about 'seats behind the goals'. Despite there having been zero consultation, a decision in that regard appears to have been made. But, one thought about this - they will be uncovered. Even an extended roof will not cover the areas behind the goals. Who wants to sit on scaffolding in the rain in a half billion quid White elephant?

It will look ****. We've been sold a great big pup!
gavrosh
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

Do yourself a favour and read the thread - weve gone over this time and again and there are very few people who actually believe that 'retractable' seating (actually extendable seating if you want to be technical) is an option. what we are talking about is DEMOUNTABLE seating, as you suggested, 'seats behind the goal'. It is an interesting point as to what happens with the roof, though. Apparently DG tweeted that the floodlights will remain - if that is the case were either talking about a transparent roof as in Kiev, seehttp://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=505872&page=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) or no roof extension at all. The latter is permissable under premier league rules as all that is required is that the majority of seats are covered (and 55k in the upper tier ensures that). If that is the case then its quite possible that West Ham wont need the loan from Newham, so if it goes back to tender we can bid on our own.
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AJ
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by AJ »

Hate how this whole subject has gone very very quiet from the club, last I remember hearing is that they was looking into it, and what was that last season :|
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Doc H Ball
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Doc H Ball »

gavrosh wrote:Do yourself a favour and read the thread - weve gone over this time and again and there are very few people who actually believe that 'retractable' seating (actually extendable seating if you want to be technical) is an option. what we are talking about is DEMOUNTABLE seating, as you suggested, 'seats behind the goal'. It is an interesting point as to what happens with the roof, though. Apparently DG tweeted that the floodlights will remain - if that is the case were either talking about a transparent roof as in Kiev, seehttp://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=505872&page=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) or no roof extension at all. The latter is permissable under premier league rules as all that is required is that the majority of seats are covered (and 55k in the upper tier ensures that). If that is the case then its quite possible that West Ham wont need the loan from Newham, so if it goes back to tender we can bid on our own.
Read the thread ta.

At first, lots of people let themselves think retractable/extended seating was viable. The club have done nothing to dispel that despite clearly having been told it is not feasable. Their silence on the plans to 'adapt' the stadium has been deafening.

What we are left with is, as you say, the prospect of demountable seating and the possibility of a partially extended roof. In other words, temprorary scaffolding of some sort. Hardly in keeping with the image of the ground the club wants to project eh?

I could not open your link and so have not seen what you mean about a transparent roof, but unless it encloses the stadium, those demountable seats are going to be uncovered and open to the elements.
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WHURS
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by WHURS »

Its definaletly frustrating but, I wouldn't expect anything to happen or be publicised by anyone until the lease has been signed, and that won't happen untill all this legal stuff that is still going on has worked its self out one way or another.

im pretty sure the club are desperate to do something but their hands are tied.
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Doc H Ball
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Doc H Ball »

WHURS wrote:Its definaletly frustrating but, I wouldn't expect anything to happen or be publicised by anyone until the lease has been signed, and that won't happen untill all this legal stuff that is still going on has worked its self out one way or another.

im pretty sure the club are desperate to do something but their hands are tied.
Well, I understand that argument, but it hasn't stopped them using the stadium as a logo, entering a lease for West Ham Westfield or having computer graphics showing a very different type of ground. If you look at the Official Site, you would think we were moving in tomorrow.
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mywhufc
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by mywhufc »

WHURS wrote:Its definaletly frustrating but, I wouldn't expect anything to happen or be publicised by anyone until the lease has been signed, and that won't happen untill all this legal stuff that is still going on has worked its self out one way or another.

im pretty sure the club are desperate to do something but their hands are tied.
that club dont want to release a proper plan until the lease is signed because then its too late. we all new what the Spurs stadium was going to look like west hams owners hid behind the secrecy wall because they had no plan at first it was lets just get it and then try and make it work. they have had plenty of time to release details of what they plan to all fans not just the supporters panel, yet still nothing.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Rays Rock »

I'm intrested to know why people think they should be consulted about how the stadium move / development is caried out.
Obviously, some fans want the chance to say a straight no to the move, but the notion that fans should be consulted as to how the stadium is developed is frankly ludicrous. It's quite clear from this thread alone that most fans don't have enough knowledge or understanding of the basic principles needed to even make the most basic of suggestions on stadium design / construction and expenditure.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

Good point, Ray. The people that they should be asking are architects, and seeing as they have Populous on board, who designed the thing in the first place, we're in about as good hands as we can get. Mind you, they also are consulting Westfield, which is more of a worry if you look at how cheaply theyve done the mall in Stratford. Its an absolute scandal, that.

Here's the link to the Kiev ground. If only we'd been gifted this:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 72&page=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by ForeverHammers »

mywhufc wrote: im pretty sure the club are desperate to do something but their hands are tied.
that club dont want to release a proper plan until the lease is signed because then its too late. we all new what the Spurs stadium was going to look like west hams owners hid behind the secrecy wall because they had no plan at first it was lets just get it and then try and make it work. they have had plenty of time to release details of what they plan to all fans not just the supporters panel, yet still nothing.[/quote]

All in good time....
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by eastsider »

"gavrosh"]Good point, Ray. The people that they should be asking are architects, and seeing as they have Populous on board, who designed the thing in the first place, we're in about as good hands as we can get. Mind you, they also are consulting Westfield, which is more of a worry if you look at how cheaply theyve done the mall in Stratford. Its an absolute scandal, that.

Here's the link to the Kiev ground. If only we'd been gifted this:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 72&page=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]


Does not seem much better than the OS if any to me...... I am for the move to Stratford 100% I quite like its design and it cannot come soon enough IMO. This Kiev stadium still has a track etc so same situation with distance from pitch surely applies?
So dismountable seating would have to be fitted there also??.......
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by StiffUpper »

Major difference I noticed is that our stand curve away from the straights where at Kiev the stand are square to them which is much better. You're nearer the edges on those sides.

The long jump triple jum pits are in that curve at the OS so if 1 or both of those stands were straightened then they'd have to be moved I imagine.
gavrosh
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

Yeah that's a major part of it. Notwithstanding that there's a bloody great running track between the stands and the pitch, they had to go ahead and add another 10 metres on each side. well done indeed.
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Doc H Ball
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Doc H Ball »

Rays Rock wrote: the notion that fans should be consulted as to how the stadium is developed is frankly ludicrous.
You're an engineer right? When you get commissioned, I presume that those that commission you have consulted with the end users before deciding on a build. Nobody, for example, should build a stadium for cyclists without consulting with cyclists as to what is needed.

Fans should be consulted so that what is built, as far as possible, suits their needs and wishes. That's not revolutionary politics but market common sense I would have thought. Wanting to be close to the pitch and not sit in an uncovered temproray stand through winter is hardly ill informed opinion.

The fact that we have gone from discussing a multi million pound state of the art athletics stadium to discussing scaffolding type seating options is indicative as to why exactly there needed to be fan consultation throughout and not let engineers/construction companies/politicians to run away with their own schemes.
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