Retractable seating at the OS

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paulhs1
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

WHURS wrote:There is nothing structural about the lower tier so can be removed if they want. It is only considered permanent because it was the only part of the stadium that was due to remain.The undercroft is the permanent struncture that is the foundations of the upper tier. Here is a time laspe video that shows there is nothing about the lower teir that could be considered permanent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10745320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I really hope that I am proven wrong but I just can't see retractable seating being possible for the £10m being quoted.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

paulhs1 wrote:I think I am therefore correct in assuming that to enable the lower tier to retract you would have to dig down into the foundations of the whole of the lower tier. The total build has so far cost 500m so I am finding it very hard to believe that £10m will be enough money to make retractable seating possible.
Again this is my opinion and I am no specialist, I hope the club and it's architects can prove me wrong but I fear that the best case scenario is temporary seating such as the Sevilla pictures in this thread. Can you honestly say that you would be happy with that?
The lower tier is not built into the foundations. If you look at the skyscrapercity website you will see the early images of construction. The lower tier seating is actually hollow underneath and could be easily removed whilst leaving everything else intact. I really can't see the problem in removing it, maybe 2 weeks demolition, cart the rubble out, install retractable seating, job done...
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Pop Robson »

What's holding up the upper tier ?
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WHURS
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by WHURS »

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpg ... 211210.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpg ... 1108_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


These two images give you a good idea as to how the upper tier is supported.

If you watch the time lapse as well the lower tier looks like it would only need to be lifted out not even demolished.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Rays Rock »

Pop Robson wrote:What's holding up the upper tier ?
Sky Hooks :eh:
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Rays Rock »

The lower tier is a common stadium solution using pre-stressed concrete section for seating tiers.

A solid contrete bowl would be too heavy & too expensive to construct.
I doubt there are many stadium grandstands that have been built in the last 50 - 60 years that are solid concrete from top to bottom :eh:
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

Its certainly true that the lower tier is hollow, as opposed to the unsubstantiated rumour that its solid (why on earth would they make it solid anyway?). The cost would be more to do with digging into the earth BEHIND the lower tier rather than digging down, in order to fit the mechanics for the extendible eating.

At the end of the day, anything is do-able with enough money. I think it will eventually get done like the Telstra stadium, but not with the budget of the current owners.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

gavrosh wrote:Its certainly true that the lower tier is hollow, as opposed to the unsubstantiated rumour that its solid (why on earth would they make it solid anyway?). The cost would be more to do with digging into the earth BEHIND the lower tier rather than digging down, in order to fit the mechanics for the extendible eating.

At the end of the day, anything is do-able with enough money. I think it will eventually get done like the Telstra stadium, but not with the budget of the current owners.
How much are the current board willing to plough into the OS? We keep reading that the public purse will pick up £95m for the stadium conversion. The sale of Upton Park should give our board further funds, so how much would this state of the art retractable seating cost? Surely we could afford it if we don't have to pay any other conversion costs?
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

gavrosh wrote:Its certainly true that the lower tier is hollow, as opposed to the unsubstantiated rumour that its solid (why on earth would they make it solid anyway?). The cost would be more to do with digging into the earth BEHIND the lower tier rather than digging down, in order to fit the mechanics for the extendible eating.

At the end of the day, anything is do-able with enough money. I think it will eventually get done like the Telstra stadium, but not with the budget of the current owners.
Mr_Andersonn wrote:[How much are the current board willing to plough into the OS? We keep reading that the public purse will pick up £95m for the stadium conversion. The sale of Upton Park should give our board further funds, so how much would this state of the art retractable seating cost? Surely we could afford it if we don't have to pay any other conversion costs?
A very good question, but more importantly how much is the board willing to plough into upgrading a rented stadium that will be shared by one or more rugby clubs, possibly England cricket, UK athletics and events.
Don't forget the sale of UP will go to the banks to pay down the clubs debts. So the club have to then find the money for retractable seating themselves and then the likes of wasps get to have a free ride with the facilities!
I would hope that the club will put their hands in their pocket but in all probablity we may all end up watching from behind the track!
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

The money doesnt need to go into paying down debts - if they can convince the creditors that retractable seating is worth it (and to do so all they need to do is direct them to any West Ham fans forum) then the banks im sure would not have a problem with extending the loan for the fit-out.

Further, I dont see why any poxy Rugby Union club should be able to free ride on us. They can stay in Wycombe.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

gavrosh wrote:The money doesnt need to go into paying down debts - if they can convince the creditors that retractable seating is worth it (and to do so all they need to do is direct them to any West Ham fans forum) then the banks im sure would not have a problem with extending the loan for the fit-out.

Further, I dont see why any poxy Rugby Union club should be able to free ride on us. They can stay in Wycombe.
I agree but unfortunately it's not our decision. I hope the OPLC don't allow two rugby clubs as the grass would be fu**ed by October and gone will be the days of free flowing football :think:
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

gavrosh wrote:The money doesnt need to go into paying down debts - if they can convince the creditors that retractable seating is worth it (and to do so all they need to do is direct them to any West Ham fans forum) then the banks im sure would not have a problem with extending the loan for the fit-out.

Further, I dont see why any poxy Rugby Union club should be able to free ride on us. They can stay in Wycombe.
Also, i'm even more pleased now that the club have agreed in principle to a fan consultation about the move as it is quite apparent that we all have many concerns. Clearly yours and many others are about retractable seating and not viewing from around the track.

Our meeting is in January where we will be discussing with the club the possible poll questions, it appears that a question focused around retractable seating is of major importance!
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by gavrosh »

Interesting that they are committed to a fan consultation now, whereas they were deathly silent when we originally won the tender. At least it shows someone there has a brain. I expect that the result of it will be a clear case of 'if we dont have retractable seating, we dont want it', which is a great bargaining chip to have against the OPLC, with their 'an American football team might bid for it'. Do me a favour. It's governmental pussyfooting that screwed it all up in the first place, remember?
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by hammersk »

There is £95m for the stadium conversion.However we have countered that for the stadium to be viable, it needs retractable seating and that this should also be factored in to the costs. Altman has in turn warned that the venue is not a slave to football, which of course it is, so we'll see who contributes what.

As for the banks, they want steady cashflows and covenant security - both of which would be substantially bolstered by a larger stadium.

As for the asking the fans, I'd rather they didn't, until we knew exactly what was on offer.
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

hammersk wrote: As for the banks, they want steady cashflows and covenant security - both of which would be substantially bolstered by a larger stadium.
I very much doubt that the banks will be happy to lend to a club with no asset. Look at Coverntry City for a prime example. They have moved to a stadium as tenants are in debt and now cannot raise funds to get them out the mess their in. They are heading for league one!
hammersk wrote:As for the asking the fans, I'd rather they didn't, until we knew exactly what was on offer.
We know whats on offer, a rented stadium that will be shared with possibly 3 or more sporting clubs, no share of events or minimal naming rights meaning no cheap tickets. No retractable seating unless we pay for it. And we are moving from a ground that we have sole use of that is our home to a stadium that will be shared and we play second fiddle to Athletics in!
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by the bubble hammer »

Blinkered springs to mind.
Paulhs1, do you base youre comments on fact or just comments made in the media? Have you seen first hand the new tender documents?
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

I am sure things will unfold further as the end of the tender process nears.

I believe that we could share with rugby, but then lets get the rugby club involved in financing decent retractable seating!
There is also the mention that the main anchor tenant shall receive a fair percentage from the naming rights income, although I haven't seen anywhere what percentage this will be.............
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

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the bubble hammer wrote:Blinkered springs to mind.
Paulhs1, do you base youre comments on fact or just comments made in the media? Have you seen first hand the new tender documents?
To be brutually honest I said this before he knows nothing just like any of us! He has ignored what has been said before also!
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by the pink palermo »

Mr_Andersonn wrote: I believe that we could share with rugby, but then lets get the rugby club involved in financing decent retractable seating!
.
London Wasps are currently up for sale for £1 - with the buyer taking on their debts .

Saracens are losing money hand over fist .
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Re: Retractable seating at the OS

Post by paulhs1 »

the bubble hammer wrote:Blinkered springs to mind.
Paulhs1, do you base youre comments on fact or just comments made in the media? Have you seen first hand the new tender documents?
The Rebirth wrote:To be brutually honest I said this before he knows nothing just like any of us! He has ignored what has been said before also!
The facts are that the deal has now changed and I think most people can see that.
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