Taster at Roma

All you need to know about West Ham United FC's potential move to Stratford.

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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby mywhufc on Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:51 pm

.

The Rebirth wrote:How can you blame the club for failing to win you over? When they're unable to consult or even talk with us further until the Judicial review is over.
is that a fact though, or do they just choose to hide behind that. What would happen if they did release their plans for the stadium,surely they can just say they were only copying what spurs had done,and since feb we have been the preferred bidder they could of done something. I don't think the OPLC would change their mind over the club at the end of the day consulting with the end users.

The Rebirth wrote:Basically you're just on a list of people who will and do hate it regardless, that's fine each to their own.

And if I'm honest if we get a good crowd due to tickets being cheaper then no. If we just end up with the all old farts (the ones with the money) who turn up every week like we get now who just sit there and f***ing moan all game then yes. I have a feeling and it is generally a fear of mine that we will end up with the latter.
those so called old farts are the ones that have been supporting the club with their money through thick and thin for the past 20 30 40 and some even 60 years, are you saying that if the move happens and they won't go or don't like it and complain they can get lost don't need people like that in the new stadium, thanks for all your support in the past but your complaining is driving the Tourists and day trippers away. Perhaps you would like to restrict it "fans that only sing" only allowed in your shiny new stadium. Remember those moony old gist that you say we have at the moment have helped keep this club going while you picked and chose which games you wanted to attend, until this season of course.

The Rebirth wrote:We will be Arsenal mark II ask anyone was Arsenal a nice place to go 30 odd years ago? No it wasn't so look at it now! Silent, sh*t and you can do whatever you want without fear of the locals £1000 season tickets for people with money... If we could sell ours for a 3rd of that we would, in my mind fill the ground. We have the fans it's just £ signs get in peoples eyes. They need to reconnect with the every day working fan who is on 10-11k PA

All my best mates back home are Arsenal fans they cannot afford to go but if Arsenal needed to (which they don't) they could drop their prices and get another 20k no probs, it's just they would have nowhere to put them currently!
if we sell our tickets for a 1/3 of arsenal and the others in London how do you expect the club to build a team to compeat against them let alone the north west England power teams.
Answer this , when us and totts arse and chelski all have 60,000 seated stadiums in say around 10 years time where would you see west ham finishing in the league, what attendances do you think we would get, what prices are you expecting to pay.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby The Rebirth on Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:10 pm

mywhufc wrote:is that a fact though, or do they just choose to hide behind that. What would happen if they did release their plans for the stadium,surely they can just say they were only copying what spurs had done,and since feb we have been the preferred bidder they could of done something. I don't think the OPLC would change their mind over the club at the end of the day consulting with the end users


I cannot answer that but why would they lie about it? You keep asking questions with no answers yet and using it as the object of your distrust. Tell me another West Ham chairman who was so open?

mywhufc wrote:those so called old farts are the ones that have been supporting the club with their money through thick and thin for the past 20 30 40 and some even 60 years, are you saying that if the move happens and they won't go or don't like it and complain they can get lost don't need people like that in the new stadium, thanks for all your support in the past but your complaining is driving the Tourists and day trippers away. Perhaps you would like to restrict it "fans that only sing" only allowed in your shiny new stadium. Remember those moony old gist that you say we have at the moment have helped keep this club going while you picked and chose which games you wanted to attend, until this season of course.


I know that Nige but they are moany old gits? I don't care they're the ones who in my eyes are complaining about the atmosphere and they don't even make any effort during games. I wouldn't like to restrict anything but I would like the club to explore all pricing options. Make the game more affordable every game for the working class and not the 60k band.

mywhufc wrote:]if we sell our tickets for a 1/3 of arsenal and the others in London how do you expect the club to build a team to compeat against them let alone the north west England power teams.
Answer this , when us and totts arse and chelski all have 60,000 seated stadiums in say around 10 years time where would you see west ham finishing in the league, what attendances do you think we would get, what prices are you expecting to pay.


Why are you even comparing or trying to model us on emulating those clubs or competing with them?

Chelsea - Cash rich billionaire
Tottenham - Cash rich billionaire
Arsenal - wealthy US billionaire owner.
Fulham - cash rich billionaire owner

So how can I give you a business plan on competing with these? I am not expecting anything I am just hoping they do it well. You've got to have faith.

Our owners are not even worth $1bn combined! If they build up the academy and world class training facilities then I reckon that we can get by like we've always done.

I do not crave success but if we get a cup run or a trip to Wembley once a decade I'd be happy. If we got cash rich investors I'd hope the money would go on the academies here and world wide + the training facility!
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby EvilC on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:07 pm

The Rebirth wrote:No I am saying keep an open mind.

How can you blame the club for failing to win you over? When they're unable to consult or even talk with us further until the Judicial review is over.

Basically you're just on a list of people who will and do hate it regardless, that's fine each to their own.

And if I'm honest if we get a good crowd due to tickets being cheaper then no. If we just end up with the all old farts (the ones with the money) who turn up every week like we get now who just sit there and f***ing moan all game then yes. I have a feeling and it is generally a fear of mine that we will end up with the latter.

We will be Arsenal mark II ask anyone was Arsenal a nice place to go 30 odd years ago? No it wasn't so look at it now! Silent, sh*t and you can do whatever you want without fear of the locals £1000 season tickets for people with money... If we could sell ours for a 3rd of that we would, in my mind fill the ground. We have the fans it's just £ signs get in peoples eyes. They need to reconnect with the every day working fan who is on 10-11k PA

All my best mates back home are Arsenal fans they cannot afford to go but if Arsenal needed to (which they don't) they could drop their prices and get another 20k no probs, it's just they would have nowhere to put them currently!


I have said I will try keep an open mind, but according to you anyone doing that will not be won over anyway, so what's the point?

They didn't consult with us at the important time (i.e. before all this was actually done). We were told "bear with us" after we got awarded it. We were told we would get a stadium tour. Do you think they're doing their best.

Personally I liked Highbury (apart from that it was Arsenal's ground) and hate The Cameldome.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby The Rebirth on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:20 pm

I believe we're still having to bear with them. Ian Tompkins favourite term!
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:34 pm

The simple truth is that the 18,000 who bought season tickets this year , contributed just £6.5m into the clubs coffers .

Even if we sold 54,000 season tickets in Stratford, assuming the same mix of kids, coffin dodgers etc , that gives less than £20m .

The Olympic stadium will generate rather more revenue ( which is not the same as margin) from Corporate entertainment than what joe average will pay at the gate .

We haven't been asked, because to be frank, from an income perspective, we don't matter .They'll fill the ground at a £1 a ticket if need be, but a table for 6 in a restaurant will set your firm back a grand or so no doubt.......

Shirt sponsorship, kit deals, stadium naming rights, broadcasting , corporate entertainment - they are the money spinners , and despite high ticket prices , the average fan is about 6th in terms of revenue generation .

Note : 60,000 gates would make us the 7th best attended club in Europe
Barcelona = 80,000
Dortmund = 80,000
Man Utd = 76,000
Bayern Munich = 70,000
Real Madrid = 70,000
Arsenal - 60,000
Inter Milan = 58,000

All of those clubs are regulars in the Champions league .I would be mightily impressed if we got those attendences at full priced tickets for a mid table Prem club .
The 20th best attended club gets gates of 45,000 with rock bottom ticket prices ( Monchengladbach) .
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby The Rebirth on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:15 am

the pink palermo wrote:The simple truth is that the 18,000 who bought season tickets this year , contributed just £6.5m into the clubs coffers .

Even if we sold 54,000 season tickets in Stratford, assuming the same mix of kids, coffin dodgers etc , that gives less than £20m .

The Olympic stadium will generate rather more revenue ( which is not the same as margin) from Corporate entertainment than what joe average will pay at the gate .

We haven't been asked, because to be frank, from an income perspective, we don't matter .They'll fill the ground at a £1 a ticket if need be, but a table for 6 in a restaurant will set your firm back a grand or so no doubt.......

Shirt sponsorship, kit deals, stadium naming rights, broadcasting , corporate entertainment - they are the money spinners , and despite high ticket prices , the average fan is about 6th in terms of revenue generation .

Note : 60,000 gates would make us the 7th best attended club in Europe
Barcelona = 80,000
Dortmund = 80,000
Man Utd = 76,000
Bayern Munich = 70,000
Real Madrid = 70,000
Arsenal - 60,000
Inter Milan = 58,000

All of those clubs are regulars in the Champions league .I would be mightily impressed if we got those attendences at full priced tickets for a mid table Prem club .
The 20th best attended club gets gates of 45,000 with rock bottom ticket prices ( Monchengladbach) .


Thing is Pinky you can get a ticket beer and a coach trip to some German teams for dirt cheap. It encourages the working class man to go but why our club could not do something similar is something I've always wondered.

I think a few season back it was Schalke who did the Coach + Ticket for like 20 euros
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby beckton on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:51 am

hadleighhammer wrote:Not as laughable as the constant "the stadium will be fine and we should trust G&S&B, they're fans don't ya know" line you take based more on wishful thinking than facts as the plans haven't been revealed. I would look back at your previous laughable posts but they're mysteriously disappeared.




I too remember those posts with the 'FACTS' about the reconfiguration of the stadium after the Olympics. After he deleted the posts they became just 'IDEAS'.


Funny that. :lol:
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby the pink palermo on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:15 am

The Rebirth wrote:Thing is Pinky you can get a ticket beer and a coach trip to some German teams for dirt cheap. It encourages the working class man to go but why our club could not do something similar is something I've always wondered.

I think a few season back it was Schalke who did the Coach + Ticket for like 20 euros


Rebirth , I used to be a regular attendee at Monchengladbachs old ground - and yes it was cheaper to stand on the terraces than British football - even 30 years ago .

I can assure you though that the Corporate side at the Allianz Arena is every bit as expensive as anything at Arsenal - I've been in it .
David Gold was very clear in a fans forum a few weeks ago that it was the Corporate money they were chasing at Stratford - they almost don't care what you or i pay to get in : if the ground is empty , I'm sure they will offer kids for a quid every week , if it's full, prices will rise .
The corporate boxes , however, will be premium priced .
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:00 am

I took in the Hertha Berlin - Bayer Leverkusen game yesterday, which was played in the Olympic Stadium in Berlin.
I imagine that the view would be quite similar to that of the OS, but I can't say I hated it.

Great atmosphere throughout the game, good view on the pitch (although players obviously are far away, but then again, I was seated in the top tier near the back).

But then again, 18 euro for a Bundesliga game, tons of beer in the ground, smoking in the ground,... all adds to the experience and atmosphere (especially the beer, bloody hell :raver: )
You can't get that in the Premier League.

I'm not all against the new ground, but I can totally understand that people who've experienced all the changes that happened to UP would be reluctant to pack up and move.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Doc H Ball on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Worth noting, however, Antwerp Lad that the conversion of the OS in Berlin took 4 years to complete and cost 250m Euros.

Even the roof extension cost nearly 30m.

Still, we're getting retractable seats for 10m apparently :lol:
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:00 pm

Yeah I know, they seemed keen to let every visitor know just how much money they could spend on a stadium like that :lol:

Just saying that atmosphere wise moving isn't an issue, it's the fans that create it.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby hadleighhammer on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:14 pm

Antwerp_Lad wrote:Just saying that atmosphere wise moving isn't an issue, it's the fans that create it.


I keep hearing this but two things puzzle me;

1) What kind of fans do people think G&S&B will try to attract - corporate and tourists who will spend more in the club shop of an iconic stadium, or those who are disillussioned with the corporate, tourist and ultimately sanitised nature of modern football?
2) What kind of stadium is easier to create atmosphere in - a bowl with an Athletics track or a tight knit, purpose-built stadium?

Price may assist in 1) to attract some of those who've left the game, but I think the apathy with modern football stretches further than ticket prices for most, and the OS will do little to solve these issues, and may even exacerbate it.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Doc H Ball on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:00 pm

Antwerp_Lad wrote:Just saying that atmosphere wise moving isn't an issue, it's the fans that create it.


Genuinely good to hear that. We could learn a lot from the way the Germans run their game.

Out of interest, do they have safe standing there?
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby brownout on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:51 pm

Almost every ground in Germany has standing areas.
I went to see Stuttgart v Hannover recently and stood on a convertable terrace. The atmosphere was better than almost every English game.
It cost 13 Euros to stand - and that ibncluded the tram from the city centre.
Seat prices are more expensive but German clubs are happy to have cheap standing - density of supporters is higher than seats so income per area not that much less and it generates an atmosphere that adds to the spectacle for all fans.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby BeastieBoy on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:15 pm

HammerMan2004 wrote:Another crazy fact...at no point have either Roma or Lazio got attendances anywhere near the capacity...

2001–02 59,402 42,684
2002–03 57,160 44,129
2003–04 55,413 49,341
2004–05 49,631 37,516
2005–06 39,726 27,872
2006–07 38,689 25,048
2007–08 35,982 21,607
2008–09 39,396 34,626
2009–10 40,925 36,154
2010–11 33,952 29,122



I know a guy from Rome. He says that everyone in the city is football mad, and they watch it on Berlusconi's channels all day long, but for ages half the fans have boycotted their own two clubs, Apparently, both sets of fans hate the stadium. I think I hear a similar story coming up here about a running track.

Juventus, from Torino, hated their running track so much that they built themselves a new 40,000 seater stadium, A third of the capacity that they could sell for a Champion's League game against the likes of Manure, but it was the biggest plot of land they could build on in the traditional district of the club.
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Pop Robson on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:28 pm

BeastieBoy wrote:I know a guy from Rome. He says that everyone in the city is football mad, and they watch it on Berlusconi's channels all day long, but for ages half the fans have boycotted their own two clubs, Apparently, both sets of fans hate the stadium. I think I hear a similar story coming up here about a running track.

Juventus, from Torino, hated their running track so much that they built themselves a new 40,000 seater stadium, A third of the capacity that they could sell for a Champion's League game against the likes of Manure, but it was the biggest plot of land they could build on in the traditional district of the club.
:raver:

In November 2008 Juventus announced that they will invest around €120 million to build a new ground, the Juventus Stadium, on the site of Delle Alpi. Unlike the old ground, there will not be a running track; instead the pitch will be only 7.5 meters away from the stands. The planned capacity is 41,000. Work began during spring 2009 and the stadium was opened on 8 September 2011 for the start of the 2011–12 season.

Image
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Re: Taster at Roma

Postby Antwerp_Lad on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:34 pm

hadleighhammer wrote:
I keep hearing this but two things puzzle me;

1) What kind of fans do people think G&S&B will try to attract - corporate and tourists who will spend more in the club shop of an iconic stadium, or those who are disillussioned with the corporate, tourist and ultimately sanitised nature of modern football?
2) What kind of stadium is easier to create atmosphere in - a bowl with an Athletics track or a tight knit, purpose-built stadium?

Price may assist in 1) to attract some of those who've left the game, but I think the apathy with modern football stretches further than ticket prices for most, and the OS will do little to solve these issues, and may even exacerbate it.


You have corporate types as well in German football, but they're stuck in their VIP boxes and what not.
Stadiums very much still belong to your average working class fans.

As for the rules against standing areas, I don't think that's as much an issue as some try to make it.
Away games show this, where the vast majority of people tend to stand, it creates a good atmosphere.
If this is done at home games (as at West Ham, with both stands behind the goals) then it's not a problem.

But yeah, it did surprise me to enter Union Berlin's ground (second division) and see that their ground constists of about 70% standing areas.
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