Final Polling at Hull game

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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby brownout on Fri May 04, 2012 7:39 am

Pedant wrote:So statistically worthless then.

The term for this is canvassing, not polling.


So yesterday was canvassing for the Mayor of London then was it?
As with WHU'S VIEW? poll, people voted if they wanted to.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Pedant on Fri May 04, 2012 9:50 am

Try not to be an arse.

Yesterday was an election with strict criteria for who was and was not elibilge to vote.

Polling is a specific discipline that requires careful planning and sampling to ensure it provides a representative view (or, as the case may be a full survey ensuring everyone has an equal chance to vote).

Anything else is statistical piss and wind.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Persil Tickets on Fri May 04, 2012 10:27 am

Pedent wrote:

Anything else is statistical piss and wind.



Possibly - and it may not be perfect. But it is still more than the club were willing to organise. Hats off to the people that care enough to put their time and energy into doing this. Rather than damning them I think they deserve some praise.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby adie on Fri May 04, 2012 10:52 am

I'd be surprised to find one fan who didn't know of the polling of fans on whether we should move to the olympic stadium. The board didn't want to know so some fans got off their arse and did it themselves, fair play to them. Some people need to show a bit of loyalty to there fellow supporters and get their head out of the boards arse. The majority of us don't want to move, it's about time someone listened to us.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby szola on Fri May 04, 2012 12:58 pm

Pedant wrote:Polling is a specific discipline that requires careful planning and sampling to ensure it provides a representative view (or, as the case may be a full survey ensuring everyone has an equal chance to vote).

Anything else is statistical piss and wind.


If N is large enough, wouldn't the survey have some statistical significance?
The selection sounds as if its random.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby brownout on Fri May 04, 2012 1:06 pm

Most match attending West Ham fans had a chance to vote.
Of course this it is a self selecting sample because only those who chose to vote did so, but unless voting is compulsary this is the same with any election.
We don't claim that our poll was perfect but it was the most representive poll of West Ham fans to date.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby MD_HM on Fri May 04, 2012 7:05 pm

Last three home games u say?

On my journey to the ground I saw one person in the entire time over all three games so to say everyone who attended knew or had a chance is more bull****.

Just put a sock in it for 17 days and we can all see the plans and put this to bed.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Hammer110 on Fri May 04, 2012 7:58 pm

First hats off to those who bother to organise this.

Yes it's true that polls like this are often be statistically worthless, but not always. If you get a sufficient majority of your target audience to vote and you can validate this it then becomes valid, also polls like this often attract those with polarised views so can give you a good idea of the entrenched opposition to a proposal.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby brownout on Fri May 04, 2012 8:14 pm

MD_HM wrote:Last three home games u say?

On my journey to the ground I saw one person in the entire time over all three games so to say everyone who attended knew or had a chance is more bull****.

Just put a sock in it for 17 days and we can all see the plans and put this to bed.


I said most not everyone.
We polled at three home games plus to a limited extent at Bristol City & Leicester. It was on BBC TV, in the Newham Recorder, and supporters' internet forums. Leaflets were given out at the game before polling started. It was on WHU's VIEWS? website.

I maintain that most regular match going fans knew about the poll and had the opportunity to vote if they wanted.

If you saw one person collecting votes in the three games then you were aware of the poll and had the opportunity to vote (even if you just wanted to say don't know or make a comment as some fans did), if you wanted to.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby mywhufc on Fri May 04, 2012 8:18 pm

MD_HM wrote:Last three home games u say?

On my journey to the ground I saw one person in the entire time over all three games so to say everyone who attended knew or had a chance is more bull****.

Just put a sock in it for 17 days and we can all see the plans and put this to bed.

Due to the limited number of people handing out or collecting votes it wasn't possible to cover the whole ground every game, but the whole ground at some point was covered over the 3 games, so it's not bull **** as you say.
As for put a sock in it, if you don't want to read about it, don't click on this forum. You can just skip blindly by waiting for the plans to be revealed on the 21/5.. Forums I thought were about debate, you spout your ****. I'll spout my ****, we're both entrenched in our view.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Francoisvander or else on Fri May 04, 2012 9:26 pm

MD_HM wrote:Last three home games u say?

On my journey to the ground I saw one person in the entire time over all three games so to say everyone who attended knew or had a chance is more bull****.

Just put a sock in it for 17 days and we can all see the plans and put this to bed.


I'll give you something you have some nerve comming on here ****ing off people for getting off their arse. Where was you when the Bond scheme protests were happening, not on the pitch in the centre circle with me was you? If you was I would be more ashamed of the way you like to dismiss the hard work of your fellow supporters. Maybe you need too look back on the history of the East End then you might realise why so many people feel so strongly about wanting to have their say in a democratic fashion.
Its because protest and democracy are in our blood, be that via Sylvia Pankhurst and the Suffrogette movement or the Battle of Cable Street where my Grandad and thousands of his fellow dockers stood against the facist movement.

I'm sorry my faith in Karen Brady the ex sales and marketing manager for the Sunday Sport during the time they ran headlines along the lines of "World War Two Bomber Found on the Moon" and "Hitler is a Woman" isn't one of undying love.

Harold Trueman once said "Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologise for anything". In a few weeks time the battle lines will be well and truly drawn and we will all have something to fight over. Maybe history will repeat itself and I'll be in the centre circle again, who knows :crest:
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby brownout on Fri May 04, 2012 9:59 pm

I too was on the pitch in the Bond Scheme protests. Unlike the Bond Scheme some fans are for and some against moving to Stratford, plus some undecided or want more information. Hence, despite calls by some to set up a protest group, WHU'S VIEW? has remained a single issue campaign for fans to be asked if they want to move. We have lost some members by keeping to this stance but have retained a core who hold a range of views. We spent 6 months trying to get the club to hold a poll and have been given conflicting information on this by the club - from a definite yes to a definite no. The recent statement to the BBC said they'd hold a poll after 21st May, but there's been no reference to this by the club since.

Hence a group of about ten supporters have spent a great deal of time (and almost £1000 in all) in giving fans the opportunity to state their view for or against the move, based on the information available at the time. Other clubs have consulted their fans before moving. West Ham have had plenty of opportunity to hold a poll (they didn't with the last bid when there was not the OPLC confidentiality issue), but instead have made misleading statements as to the level of support for the move. We have done our best to hold a poll that gave matchgoing fans an opportunity to state their view. The poll wasn't perfect but we don't have the club's data base or the £10,000 it would have cost them to have a poll run by Electoral Reform Services.

Many of the fans who oppose the move will feel far better about accepting it if they know it is supported by the majority of our fans. Our poll will show if this is the case.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby MD_HM on Fri May 04, 2012 10:52 pm

Out of the group of "ten" of you pushing this, how many are for the move and how many against?

Just two figures of for and against please?

As for "war and peace" above, get a grip most of us have no reason to protest at present as nothing has happened and the club have done nothing wrong.

If they want to move us in to an unbranded, white shell then I'll apologise to all concerned and admit I am fully in the wrong..... However I am confident that a majority will be happy once the plans are in the public domain.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Hammer110 on Fri May 04, 2012 11:08 pm

brownout wrote:Many of the fans who oppose the move will feel far better about accepting it if they know it is supported by the majority of our fans. Our poll will show if this is the case.


Unless your poll shows more than 50% of all season ticket holders and members have voted one way or the other it will actually be inconclusive. If we have 20,000 qualifying fans and only 50% voted, 7,000 out of 10,000 against doesn't mean 70% are against, it means 35% are against, the rest are either for, not bothered or couldn't/wouldn't vote. It's also a fact that those happy to go with the flow are less likely to get involved in this sort of thing than those against.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby paulhs1 on Sat May 05, 2012 10:40 am

Hammer110 wrote:Unless your poll shows more than 50% of all season ticket holders and members have voted one way or the other it will actually be inconclusive. If we have 20,000 qualifying fans and only 50% voted, 7,000 out of 10,000 against doesn't mean 70% are against, it means 35% are against, the rest are either for, not bothered or couldn't/wouldn't vote. It's also a fact that those happy to go with the flow are less likely to get involved in this sort of thing than those against.


I agree, although to a certain extent. Just going back to the recent elections, there was quite a low turn out, the same could be said for trade unions when they vote to strike! Also if you look at Mori polls they are done on a token amount. So although there will not be 100% of people voting we should still be able to get a good idea of the overall picture.
Last edited by paulhs1 on Sat May 05, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby paulhs1 on Sat May 05, 2012 10:45 am

MD_HM wrote:Out of the group of "ten" of you pushing this, how many are for the move and how many against?

Just two figures of for and against please?.


9 against and 1 for. When we started we would have hoped for more pro members but it appears that it's mostly anti supporters that want to ensure the fans are asked as it seems the pro are happy to go along with things(at least at the moment anyway).

MD_HM wrote:If they want to move us in to an unbranded, white shell then I'll apologise to all concerned and admit I am fully in the wrong..... However I am confident that a majority will be happy once the plans are in the public domain.


Might be a bit too late then.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Hammer110 on Sat May 05, 2012 10:37 pm

paulhs1 wrote: Also if you look at Mori polls they are done on a token amount. So although there will not be 100% of people voting we should still be able to get a good idea of the overall picture.


Yes they do, but apart from exit polls, most polls done by companies like Mori use a proper sampling method to ensue they get a representative selection of the target audience and even then sometimes it comes out wrong, which is why you often see in the small print for polls or surveys the possible margin of error, which varies depending on the sampling method and depending on that method the number of criteria used.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Pedant on Sun May 06, 2012 1:13 pm

Also if you look at Mori polls they are done on a token amount.
No, they are done on a properly selected sample, know their error margins and have years of expertise behind them.

Why don't WHUView hire NOP or someone to do a proper poll? 'cos at the moment it just looks like you are beating a battle drum, not trying to get an honest answer (as the snide dig about people "going along with the board" shows).

Obviously I would insist that people like me - former ST holder, long since priced out of being able to go more than once or twice a year - are included.
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby paulhs1 on Sun May 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Pedant...would you be happy to cover the cost of NOP to do this poll as you appear quite passionate about them doing one?

Of course we want an honest answer and I would rather the club do a poll but they don't want to consult with the fan base but instead quote that 100% of SAB agree to the move/plans and continuoisly quote made up figures.

You, md_hm and others have tried to discredit whusview from day one so your negativity is no surprise!
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Re: Final Polling at Hull game

Postby Pedant on Sun May 06, 2012 5:30 pm

You, md_hm and others have tried to discredit whusview from day one so your negativity is no surprise!
All I asked was what you sampling strategy is.

You answered by attacking the board.

WHUsview are the ones with an axe to grind, so it is up to them to pay for a proper poll.

I notice you ignored the bit about those who are priced out. Not proper fans, eh?
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