Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

An archive of news, events and discussion leading up to and post West Ham United's historic move from Upton Park to Stratford in 2016.

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Mr_Andersonn
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

So you are saying our average attendance will actually drop to less than 30,000 ?

Not a chance in my book....
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by EvilC »

Mr_Andersonn wrote:So you are saying our average attendance will actually drop to less than 30,000 ?

Not a chance in my book....
Much like there is not a chance of it increasing to over 50,000 in mine.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by WHUTerry »

brownout wrote:Millwall took the highest club support to Wembley a few years ago - 50,000. So have they got the support to fill a 60,000 seater stadium?
Of course we have large numbers for cup finals but if they weren't bothered enough to go to for example the Birmingham League game in April, or the semi final last year, how often will they go to Stratford?
Out of curiosity I looked up Miillwall's ticket details for that final and season ticket holders could get 4 tickets, members could get 4 tickets and then even general sale could get 4 tickets. We had 1 ticket per season ticket and one for each member. Applying Millwall's ticket allocation, we could have comfortably filled the stadium.

The true gauge of a club's potential is probably the turn out when things aren't going well. We were averaging over 30k after several years of being walloped week in week out in the PL and also in the second tier.

The potential is there.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by prophet:marginal »

Mr_Andersonn wrote:So you are saying our average attendance will actually drop to less than 30,000 ?

Not a chance in my book....
I wasn't making a literal prediction of 30,000 or less, but imagine that, unless its a really big match, there will be massive patches of empty seats in a 60,000 stadium.
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brownout
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by brownout »

We have a core of around 30,000.
We could muster 60,000 for a Wembley final if tickets were available.
A new stadium will add some support, at least in the short term, but we'll also lose some, probably more than the club expect.
If we'd been selling out every week and had a season ticket waiting list as Arsenal did before they left Highbury, I could see that a larger ground would give significantly increased crowds.
There will also be more way fans, partly due to novelty of visiting Olympic Stadium and parlty increased allocations - whether having 10,000 Spurs fans there is a good thing is a matter of opinion.
As it is I can see crowds ranging from 30,000 - 40,000, with the odd one higher for a huge game with large away support. Average will depend on how we are doing but I can't see anything to suggest it will be a huge increase on what we get now and certainly nowhere near the ground's capacity. Get used to away fans singing 'empty seats', 'shall we fill your ground' and 'your ground's too big for you' etc.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

prophet:marginal wrote:
I wasn't making a literal prediction of 30,000 or less, but imagine that, unless its a really big match, there will be massive patches of empty seats in a 60,000 stadium.[/quote]

And these seats will be literally given away by the club / board in order to try and fill the stadium.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by prophet:marginal »

Making the point behind a ST redundant?
Mr_Andersonn
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

prophet:marginal wrote:Making the point behind a ST redundant?
From a certain point of view but as we have said above, the season tickets will cover the premium seating.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by gavrosh »

"We have a core of around 30,000"

When Upton Park was much smaller, you would have had many people arguing that the 'core' was 20k. What we do know from various surveys is that West Ham have roughly 600k fans, about the same as Villa and Everton. Both of those clubs have 40k plus stadiums and both have had plans to move to or develop their stadiums further. Why not us? Further, if as the owners expect we get significant investment from a new partner, that would mean more new 'fans' in the same way that other clubs have conjured them up. You might not like the idea, but it would certainly help your club to see more people come through the gates. Unless of course you have no ambition for the club in the first place?
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by EvilC »

gavrosh wrote:"We have a core of around 30,000"

When Upton Park was much smaller, you would have had many people arguing that the 'core' was 20k. What we do know from various surveys is that West Ham have roughly 600k fans, about the same as Villa and Everton. Both of those clubs have 40k plus stadiums and both have had plans to move to or develop their stadiums further. Why not us? Further, if as the owners expect we get significant investment from a new partner, that would mean more new 'fans' in the same way that other clubs have conjured them up. You might not like the idea, but it would certainly help your club to see more people come through the gates. Unless of course you have no ambition for the club in the first place?
I can't speak for anyone else, but don't object to moving or developing the stadium. I do object to moving somewhere that I suspect is going to be totally unsuitable for football - if this means that I have "no ambition for the club", then colour me bothered.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by EvilC »

Mr_Andersonn wrote:And these seats will be literally given away by the club / board in order to try and fill the stadium.
That won't make a difference if the main reason people don't come at present is because they get **** seats, which is what you said earlier.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Iron-worx »

EvilC wrote:That won't make a difference if the main reason people don't come at present is because they get **** seats, which is what you said earlier.
There are three reasons that people don't come that are all far more main than that....

1. Some have been priced out.

2. Getting to and from the ground, it's a ****ing nightmare of a place to get to from many places.

3. If you're not able to attend often enough to make a season ticket worthwhile then you never get to see the more attractive games.

A move to the OS might address 1. and definitely will address 2. and 3.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by EvilC »

Iron-worx wrote:There are three reasons that people don't come that are all far more main than that....

1. Some have been priced out.

2. Getting to and from the ground, it's a ****ing nightmare of a place to get to from many places.

3. If you're not able to attend often enough to make a season ticket worthwhile then you never get to see the more attractive games.

A move to the OS might address 1. and definitely will address 2. and 3.
You'll have to speak to Mr Andersonn, who appears to disagree.

I'd also add that the quality of the team and how they are performing makes a far bigger difference than anyone acknowledges, and that if the stadium isn't up to scratch we'll soon find out the difference that viewing from a different postcode from the pitch makes.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Mr_Andersonn »

I am only debateing the subject.

I am not particularly agreeing or disagreeing with any of the comments here.

Many points are quite valid and some more than others but we will have to wait and see what happens.

It will be very intersting to see the attendances!
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by MEM »

One thing we are not privy to that the board have in abundance is access to a number of databases including information on season ticket holders, club members and occasional match visitors both past and present. They also have access to the facebook members information and other such social networking information. From all of this demographic information they will have a good idea of where are fans live, their age and age bracket, gender, how many times they come per season , what games, days and times, how many family members there are, who comes together, who buys tickets for friends. Both the two Dave's and Brady are very experienced in the retail and marketing space and will have good idea of how to go after their target markets.

I think with the much better transport links into Stratford, from a much wider area, we should add quite a few who can't be bothered with logistics of getting to UP. The international link makes it so much easier for our huge fan base in North East Kent to hop on a train at Ebsfleet and 7 minutes later they will be walking to their seat at Stratford. Likewise for the counties North and North East of London and the continent. Crossrail will make it so much easier in the long run for all of our West of London supporters ~ just go and see how many groups of Europeans over for a few days come in via Eurostar and visit Westside. I think Westside will attract many more casual visitors as people can make a day of it before and after the match; shopping, restaurants, casino' s cinema etc I think this will help to. And lets not forget the corporate side with links into the City and Canary Wharf I hope there will good demand especially for night matches, straight from the office with clients and in the corporate area in 10 minutes.

Add 5,000 on for being/staying in the premiership and 15,000 coming 6 - 10 games per season from a fan base of 600,000 and we are not far off filling it with a generous allocation of away fans. for the smaller games.

I guess it all depends on what the stadium looks like if and when we go there ~ Time will tell :wink:
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by prophet:marginal »

prophet:marginal wrote:Making the point behind a ST redundant?
Mr_Andersonn wrote:From a certain point of view but as we have said above, the season tickets will cover the premium seating.
How far from the pitch are the 'premium/ST' seats?

How much do you expect the seats in other areas to be, cost-wise?
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Denbighammer »

gavrosh wrote:"We have a core of around 30,000"

When Upton Park was much smaller, you would have had many people arguing that the 'core' was 20k. What we do know from various surveys is that West Ham have roughly 600k fans, about the same as Villa and Everton. Both of those clubs have 40k plus stadiums and both have had plans to move to or develop their stadiums further. Why not us? Further, if as the owners expect we get significant investment from a new partner, that would mean more new 'fans' in the same way that other clubs have conjured them up. You might not like the idea, but it would certainly help your club to see more people come through the gates. Unless of course you have no ambition for the club in the first place?
Villa did expand their ground, they rebuilt the Trinity Road stand, extending it over the road behind which is what we should consider with the East Stand now the bus garage has closed. They do have planning to take the ground to 50,000 but there is no demand for it and there never will be when you consider that they always had 2,000-3,000 empty seats even when doing well under MON.

Everton is a totally different case, they play in an archaic ground and were looking to move to a totally new borough. However, at least they were planning on moving to an actual football stadium, it was just in the wrong place.

We all have ambitions for our club but I fail to see why moving into an unsuitable home just because its bigger is 'unambitious'. If ambition is to have the extra revenue (its what we all dreamt of as kids :lol: ) of 3,000 extra away fans taking the piss, just so we can occasionally sell 50,000 tickets to see us play Man Utd then fine but thats not my idea of ambitions for West Ham at all.
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Mike420 »

How do you know it's unsuitable till you've seen the plans? Wouldn't it be wise to reserve judgement till all is revealed should we win the bid?
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by Francoisvander or else »

[quote="MEM"]One thing we are not privy to that the board have in abundance is access to a number of databases including information on season ticket holders, club members and occasional match visitors both past and present. They also have access to the facebook members information and other such social networking information. From all of this demographic information they will have a good idea of where are fans live, their age and age bracket, gender, how many times they come per season , what games, days and times, how many family members there are, who comes together, who buys tickets for friends. Both the two Dave's and Brady are very experienced in the retail and marketing space and will have good idea of how to go after their target markets.

I think with the much better transport links into Stratford, from a much wider area, we should add quite a few who can't be bothered with logistics of getting to UP. The international link makes it so much easier for our huge fan base in North East Kent to hop on a train at Ebsfleet and 7 minutes later they will be walking to their seat at Stratford. Likewise for the counties North and North East of London and the continent. Crossrail will make it so much easier in the long run for all of our West of London supporters ~ just go and see how many groups of Europeans over for a few days come in via Eurostar and visit Westside. I think Westside will attract many more casual visitors as people can make a day of it before and after the match; shopping, restaurants, casino' s cinema etc I think this will help to. And lets not forget the corporate side with links into the City and Canary Wharf I hope there will good demand especially for night matches, straight from the office with clients and in the corporate area in 10 minutes.

Add 5,000 on for being/staying in the premiership and 15,000 coming 6 - 10 games per season from a fan base of 600,000 and we are not far off filling it with a generous allocation of away fans. for the smaller games.

I guess it all depends on what the stadium looks like if and when we go there ~ Time will tell

you are deluded, you talk bollax, you are David Gold and I claim my £5 :wink: As mentioned countless times what's the extra revenue numbers that Gold and Sullivan are anticipating, they won't say so ask yourself the question why not? There is no confidentiallity clause in respect of estimated revenue so why are they so quiet on what would be a big influencing factor in swaying fans towards a move. If they turned round and said the move will help us attract World Class players some people might then look at the stadium as a means to an end, amazes me that for 2 guys with a business background when it comes to financial matters affecting fans they seem very quiet. To be honest I don't give a f*** about some Johnny come lately's getting cheap ticket either from home or more laughingly from abroad, they will f*** off soon enough when they realise we are a crap and enduring another relegation battle, leaving those of us with claret and blue in our veins watching second tier football in a less than half empty stadium.
MEM
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Re: Decision on stadium likely to be delayed

Post by MEM »

Francoisvander or else wrote:quote="MEM"One thing we are not privy to that the board have in abundance is access to a number of databases including information on season ticket holders, club members and occasional match visitors both past and present. They also have access to the facebook members information and other such social networking information. From all of this demographic information they will have a good idea of where are fans live, their age and age bracket, gender, how many times they come per season , what games, days and times, how many family members there are, who comes together, who buys tickets for friends. Both the two Dave's and Brady are very experienced in the retail and marketing space and will have good idea of how to go after their target markets.

I think with the much better transport links into Stratford, from a much wider area, we should add quite a few who can't be bothered with logistics of getting to UP. The international link makes it so much easier for our huge fan base in North East Kent to hop on a train at Ebsfleet and 7 minutes later they will be walking to their seat at Stratford. Likewise for the counties North and North East of London and the continent. Crossrail will make it so much easier in the long run for all of our West of London supporters ~ just go and see how many groups of Europeans over for a few days come in via Eurostar and visit Westside. I think Westside will attract many more casual visitors as people can make a day of it before and after the match; shopping, restaurants, casino' s cinema etc I think this will help to. And lets not forget the corporate side with links into the City and Canary Wharf I hope there will good demand especially for night matches, straight from the office with clients and in the corporate area in 10 minutes.

Add 5,000 on for being/staying in the premiership and 15,000 coming 6 - 10 games per season from a fan base of 600,000 and we are not far off filling it with a generous allocation of away fans. for the smaller games.

I guess it all depends on what the stadium looks like if and when we go there ~ Time will tell

you are deluded, you talk bollax, you are David Gold and I claim my £5 :wink: As mentioned countless times what's the extra revenue numbers that Gold and Sullivan are anticipating, they won't say so ask yourself the question why not? There is no confidentiallity clause in respect of estimated revenue so why are they so quiet on what would be a big influencing factor in swaying fans towards a move. If they turned round and said the move will help us attract World Class players some people might then look at the stadium as a means to an end, amazes me that for 2 guys with a business background when it comes to financial matters affecting fans they seem very quiet. To be honest I don't give a **** about some Johnny come lately's getting cheap ticket either from home or more laughingly from abroad, they will **** off soon enough when they realise we are a crap and enduring another relegation battle, leaving those of us with claret and blue in our veins watching second tier football in a less than half empty stadium.
What like this do you mean ~ http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pre ... r-sullivan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Oh and before I start yes a statement like we aim to make millions out of a government sponsored stadium should really help things along with people like Barry Boy. Err Mr Government we hope to make £100M profit a year but only if you give us sole rights to stadium branding and reduce the rent to a minimum ~ should go down a treat in the negotiations. And as for the bit in bold above suggest you pop along to one of Golds shops buy yourself some nice handcuffs and some claret and blue bondage gear at let your ultra-ambitious Spurs mates use you as their whipping boy ; < p. Did you notice the Lazio and Roma ammers at Wembley ~ we have lots of supporters clubs in Europe and the Eurostar will soon stretch over to Germany and down to Italy ~ your own avatar brings a load over a couple of times a year.

Glass half empty or half full ~ know where mine is ........... where's yours ???? ; < )


West Ham co-owner David Sullivan insists the club is ready to establish itself in the Premier League once again.

The east London outfit secured a return to the top flight after beating Blackpool in Saturday’s Championship play-off final.
West Ham co-owner Gold welcomes financial boost of Premier League return

And, with the Hammers having made a bid to occupy the Olympic Stadium in the future, the former Birmingham owner predicts a bright future.

"West Ham are coming again. The days of decline are finished," he told The Daily Mirror.

"There is a very big gulf to jump but that is what we must aim for.

"And once we get all the debt paid off, which we hope we can do in three or four years, we can then build a team to take on the bigger clubs.

"It might be five or six years away but I don’t think the aim is to survive every year and scrap along at the bottom and pray you have a cup run."

Sullivan bought the club in January 2010 alongside business partner David Gold and inherited large debts from the previous owners.

However, he believes a period of consolidation in the top division will allow the club to compete with the top sides.

"If we can survive one year [in the Premier League] we can really start to build and move to the Olympic stadium," Sullivan added.

"I think the opposition is that we are not allowed to defend our corner at the moment because we cannot show people what we have got.

"I would say to the West Ham fans that if they like Wembley, they will like our new stadium because it will be very similar.

"The similarities are amazing and if we get the plan that we want it will be very special and our fans will be very proud of it and it will be an enormous legacy for East London.

"It is a wonderful stadium and if we are going to compete with Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Manchester United and Man City then we have to have a bigger stadium. And that is the aim."

The Hammers are favourites to move to the Olympic Stadium but have faced several obstacles in their fight to do so, having initially been granted the right to move to the ground only for the process to be blocked by legal challenges from Tottenham and Leyton Orient.

The bidding process is due to conclude in October, with the stadium scheduled to re-open in the summer of 2014.
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