Orient as a feeder club

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Doc H Ball
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Doc H Ball »

Heysel76 wrote:Doc H Ball, I'm sure you a nice bloke, i dunno about everyone else, but that picture of Duxbury makes me wanna disagree with you subconsciously lol
I was actually beginning to hate myself so I've changed it.

Anyone seen my dog?
orient slacker
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by orient slacker »

Romford wrote:He doesn't own the ground...Waltham Forest do
Hello all - and especially Romford/Ashers.

I've not come here to troll, and certainly not to blindly defend Hearn, but just to put you right on a few points you were unsure of, from an Os fans perspective.

Re the Brisbane Rd ground ownership, LBWF do indeed own the freehold. But they gave LOFC/Hearn a 999 year lease on a peppercorn rate before he started the redevelopment/flats/offices, so he effectively has a "virtual freehold". He subsequently sold off bits from LOFC's books to developers via a shell company in which he had a stake to redevelop 3 stands. In 2009 he sold the remaining bits (the pitch and ageing East Stand) to Matchroom (ie himself) for £6mm to recoup his previous loans to the club and provide about £2.6mm cash to the club, to cover the usual operating shortfall to compete in L1 for a few seasons.

That cash now appears to have run out, and last year's reported loss was much higher than anticipated, so unless LOFC balance the books we have a big problem. We may be debt free, but we have no assets either. The introduction of the 65% salary rules in L1 this year could help us achieve that, but we'll have to wait and see in the summer what the 12/13 books look like.

Re the feeder club comment. Interestingly, that's what Arsenal tried to do back in 1930 with Clapton Orien in return for clearing our debtst, in one of our earlier, regular, moments of financial disarray - when the Greyhounds folk kicked us out of Millfields Rd. The FL quickly put a stop to that.

Happy to engage in other discussions about what LOFC fans want in relation to the Olympics Legacy, which you probably wont be surprised to learn isn't necessarily the same as what our owner wants.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by mushy »

So Hearn has sold off the family silver and you have no assets left at all.
Thats not good.
Does/Has Hearn ever make money from being your Chairman or is it purely an act of love?
What are your expectations as regards your future and the Olympic legacy.
orient slacker
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by orient slacker »

I think you're right that having no assets - and not owning your ground - is bad news. Although having no debts is both unusual and a good thing. Orient under Hearn have never played the administration game and ripped off creditors like far too many other chiselling owners.

Hearn's got back all his earlier loans, so he's probably just out of pocket for his initial equity investments (around £2.5mm) which are worth zip. He may have made a few bob out of some of the flats and office redevelopments, but nothing significant. I think he initially saw an opportunity to make money out of us back in the mid-90s, but quickly wised up once the ITV Digital/FL deal went south. Since then he's done an OKish job of keeping us ticking over without costing him money.

Re the OS, the majority of Orient fans don't want to move, and think we could survive at Brisbane Rd provided we balance our books (it's the same for all lower league clubs with small crowds, really). Our Fans' are concerned WHU in the OS will flood the market with cheap tickets and make it harder for us to pick up new punters, which is why we've backed Hearn's earlier legal challenge, but provided that doesn't happen too regularly I reckon we can pick up more PL club fans who are fed up with the hype and high prices.

But like your fans, what we think and want is pretty immaterial to what our owners decide. You always have to be careful taking someone like Hearn at face value with every soundbite, but like with yours, a move away from Brisbane Rd would give him a potential exit without losses, provided in our case someone else picks up the tab for rents/another ground.

That's why he was initially angling for the Eton Manor site (now the national hockey stadium) as a freebie. How serious he is about us rattling around the OS when he/we can't afford any rent or reconfiguration costs is anyones guess, but it's possible now that he's just trying to kill the WHU/OS deal and preserve the status quo instead, or after sufficient compo to make him go away.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Mike420 »

If you're so concerned about cheap tickets, you're welcome to offer some yourselves. You have plenty of empty seats or better yet, go back to Clapton.

Your pending demise is obviously all our fault and nothing to with your current financial situation.

Football has no sympathy for the weak. You don't see me crying when we get done by players like Hazard funded by a crook that Chelsea wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. It's not a level playing field. I suggest you get use to it.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by orient slacker »

Mike420 wrote:Your pending demise is obviously all our fault and nothing to with your current financial situation.

Football has no sympathy for the weak.
Of course Orient's current finances aren't WHUs fault. The end of gate-sharing, the advent of the PL, raised ticket costs across the Leagues, games on TV 24/7, media hype for the top division and the Champions League, plus greater leisure options generally, have all played their part in making it harder for the smaller clubs to attract new fans regularly.

Orient already do comps to locals via schools/community clubs, plus some cheaper ticket deals sometimes. The running joke is Orient have a stinker and lose in these matches, and few come back!

The PL and the Big Club owners may have little sympathy for the weak out of self-interest, but is that the fans views of other clubs as well? Most football fans will have been sorry to see Ilford, Leytonstone and Walthamstow Ave disappear (into Dagenham & Redbridge, which was effectively a reverse takeover of skint Dagenham by Redbridge Forest owners who asset stripped 3 grounds), plus many of our other local non-league clubs.

My view is we'd be poorer for losing the full traditional pro 92 club set up, plus the extensive non-League pyramid below that, but in truth clubs have hardly ever gone to the wall since the 1st bout of property-inflation related asset-stripping in the 70s/80s, and they nearly always muddle through. The last ones in the FL were Aldershot and Maidstone, which have now both got back on their feet as phoenix clubs.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by MEM »

Like a few on here used to go to the O's quite a bit back in the 70's and put a few bob in the collection bucket to keep them going. Also used to go admittedly less so while my rugby club's clubhouse was just across the road from them opposite Coronation Gardens right up until 2002. I do feel Mr Hear is driving a rather large and unnecessary wedge between our supporters. I actually think Orient are more likely to pick up a quite a few disillusioned West Ham fans if we move to the Olympic Park and they stay in Leyton. As I have said before I have lots of friends who prefer going to Dagenham and Redbridge now for an old style stand up atmosphere rather than the sterile one the Premier league and the police are trying to create.

And one last point around Barry Boy and his peppercorn rates ~ surely this is tantamount to state aid ~ juridical review anyone?
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Doc H Ball
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Doc H Ball »

orient slacker wrote:
The PL and the Big Club owners may have little sympathy for the weak out of self-interest, but is that the fans views of other clubs as well?
No Slacker - not all of us have forgotten our roots :thup:
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by HarrowInnHammer »

Mike420 wrote:If you're so concerned about cheap tickets, you're welcome to offer some yourselves. You have plenty of empty seats or better yet, go back to Clapton.

Your pending demise is obviously all our fault and nothing to with your current financial situation.

Football has no sympathy for the weak. You don't see me crying when we get done by players like Hazard funded by a crook that Chelsea wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. It's not a level playing field. I suggest you get use to it.
Turn it in. Sound like a scouser thinking everyone is against you.
You preaching and telling a club to move from their own area and community is ironic though.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by WestHamIFC »

Mike420 wrote:..or better yet, go back to Clapton.
:thup:

Probably the most sensible comment on this thread. If Orient are worried that we are a 'threat' then they should f**k off back from whence they came! I, for one, will be cheering them all the way.

Problem solved.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Rocketron »

WestHamIFC wrote:
:thup:

Probably the most sensible comment on this thread. If Orient are worried that we are a 'threat' then they should f**k off back from whence they came! I, for one, will be cheering them all the way.

Problem solved.
Have you not read what orient slacker has actually written?
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by BSB1 »

orient slacker wrote:Orient under Hearn have never played the administration game and ripped off creditors like far too many other chiselling owners.

I take it you've never done business with Mr Hearn. The words "blood" and "stone" are very apt in that regard.



Re the OS, the majority of Orient fans don't want to move, and think we could survive at Brisbane Rd provided we balance our books (it's the same for all lower league clubs with small crowds, really). Our Fans' are concerned WHU in the OS will flood the market with cheap tickets and make it harder for us to pick up new punters, which is why we've backed Hearn's earlier legal challenge, but provided that doesn't happen too regularly I reckon we can pick up more PL club fans who are fed up with the hype and high prices.

So why haven't you picked up more punters? We've been discounting tickets for years including many kids for a quid games each season. U16's can buy a season ticket for £100. It's not distance from each other that's the problem so us moving a mile and a half up the road is irrelevant. People don't go to watch certain matches because it's cheap. They want to watch the team that interests them.

But like your fans, what we think and want is pretty immaterial to what our owners decide. You always have to be careful taking someone like Hearn at face value with every soundbite, but like with yours, a move away from Brisbane Rd would give him a potential exit without losses, provided in our case someone else picks up the tab for rents/another ground.

Correct. Mr Hearn wants something for nothing or a financial incentive to go away quietly.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Romford »

Welcome Slacker...great to get your thoughts mate.

You will find there are still a few like me who would hate the Os go out of business...although the vast majority of your "fans" aren't helping your chances of much sympathy.

Just how many people that actually still go to games at BR are those that used to go to the Lane or Highbury ?
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by AMC1964 »

I certainly don't want to see the O's go out of business. They used to be a tremendous club and a great place to watch football. However, the fans attempts to conjure up some kind of hated rivalry with us has me somewhat pissed off. Especially as the majority of the idiots over there were banned from the filth about 8 years ago. I also have a significant dislike for their odious little twerp of an owner. He has cost this country millions of pounds of public money with his pathetic attempts to derail an honest process.

The only thing I do agree with him on was his comments about politicians yesterday. Tessa Jowell and Ken Livingstone are the two fucktartds truly to blame for this horrible mess.

Orient Slacker, really enjoyed seeing your views on here, and many thanks for taking the time to put some sensible and reasoned comments on the board.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by mumbles87 »

See now personally I wouldnt have minded a ground share with orient. A club who had never offended. Decent support. I mean if the milans can ground share then two teams with no rivally who are a few divisions apart should be able to.

It could have worked well. Loaning them and dagenham our youth players. Keep them close to home (litterally in the case of orient) so that we could send scouts every week to watch them and make progress reports.

But since their chairman become so arrogent about the whole thing id rather let him moan and we just have the place to ourselfs
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by The Sherriff »

HarrowInnHammer wrote:This ain't a game of football manager, proper premier league arrogance.

Bang on ..... why anyone would want to see another club go out of business or suffer as a consequence of our actions is beyond me.

I find all this deeply uncomfortable. We've sailed close to the wind on a few occasions so careful what you wish for .... Karma and all that ....

I don't have any affinity to Orient or have a strong view on them as a club. Just hope that our projected move doesn't impact them. Our majority owners are just as much of media whores who enjoy the limelight and chest beating as Hearn. What the f*** is he supposed to do? sit and watch his club diminish ...... If this had been done to us we would be crying foul. I wonder if the same people who were getting a sore one over Spurs contesting the OS are the same who wish Orient ill fate?

Everything and anything to do with the OS is tainted in my view, cant see any winners except from the Dildos.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by orient slacker »

So the OS deal seems done and dusted. Seems like a good one for your owners. I genuinely hope its a good one for WHU and its current fans too, though that seems far less certain.

Hearn's soundbites of the last day or so have been all over the show: he'll fight on with the legal stuff; he's virtually conceding he'll lose; we've got to move Franchise Orient to somewhere, anywhere, in SW Essex to survive. It's the usual gubbins spouted off the top of his head. Unless there's some sort of compo deal concluded on the quiet, there's no money to do that. Most Os fans don't buy the doomsday scenario anyway, and we'll fight any attempt to move us away from our current area.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

orient slacker wrote:
The PL and the Big Club owners may have little sympathy for the weak out of self-interest, but is that the fans views of other clubs as well?
No mate. Well certainly not all of us.

I can't stand your chairman but he is just one man passing through. He isn't Orient. Always had a soft spot for the O's- and always will. I hope whatever happens that your club are still about and doing OK.
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by Ticket 2 Ryde »

I don't mind the O's but ole Bazza makes it really hard to have sympathy for them..
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Re: Orient as a feeder club

Post by leyton Hammer »

Live in Leyton, cant stand their muggy fans, pr!ck of an owner or anything to do with them, fu*k off back to Clapton! Jumped into bed with the Spurs once before when Arsenal moved north because they were close by, eventually moved to Brisbane Rd and displaced Leyton FC, hypocrites. Would be cool if the Daves simply bought them sold all their players and ground, problem solved
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