The big Mark Noble debate...

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stu1
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by stu1 »

fjthegrey wrote:I think Noble has been a victim of our system, same as Collison.

Both of them are too expansive to play as holding players. Both aren't quick or mobile enough to play wide, and neither score enough goals to play as the main link between attack and midfield, (not that anybody in our midfield scores any goals.)

In a basic 4-4-2 with both as central midfielders and two proper wingers, I think they would look better.

People are forgetting that Noble had an excellent game against Chelsea when we drew with them, and he has had niggling injuries all season. Selling him would be a drastic move, but if we intend to keep the system we are playing now, he needs to adapt his game to suit a specific role.
Guarantee if you played Collison more centrally you would get a hell of alot more goals out of him, plus he has our most assits this season.Collison needs to be played in a central advanced role to get the best out of him.

Collison has very good feet, and is not that slow id say he is just average. Has an eye for a pass and generally can finish, to compare him to Noble in an attacking sense is very harsh, as he is clearly far better in this department.


Noble has 13 in 137 with Collison 5 in 43. Not too far different, but of Noble's goals how many are pens at least 4 and he has been playing at AM for basically his whole career whilst Collison has been pushed out on to the wing. Im sorry but 1 goal in 10 from your AM who is also your pen taker is just not god enough.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by tjr008 »

He's a good and tidy footballer. With a change of pace he'd be very good. But he doesn't have it.

However I still rate him for his good ball control and link play.

West Ham's Leon Osman. 25-30 games a season.
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Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Blame the manager

Blame the manager

Blame the manager..

:lol:
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miles
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by miles »

:lol: This 'kin thread.
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nr2iron
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by nr2iron »

I think a lot of you are missing the bigger picture,we are not playing well to be honest and the midfield is struggling to get to the dizzy heights it had for a period last season when it was outstanding and imho Collison is the weak link at the moment,since his fathers death he has been anonamous in most games and at villa was truely awful hardly touching the ball in 90 minutes which puts more pressure on the other midfielders of which we all now Kovac is not good enough,Behrami is now getting back to fitness and i expect to see him improve as he plays more but we do not have the quality in depth to drop Noble so perhaps play 4-3-1-2 at home with Parker-Behrami-Noble and Diamante in front of them linking up with(when fit) Cole and Franco.Noble will never be a Stuart Robson or a Alan Devonshire but has qualitys of which we need more at the moment which is fighting spirit rather than play someone who at the moment has non.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by libero »

I've always thought the the problem of so many WH fans undervaluing Mark Noble comes down to 2 very basic things:

1. Many people seem not to understand the type of player he is and the kind of role he can have with us. He's not a Brooking, Devonshire, Joe Cole, Di Canio, Diamanti type player - never has been, never will be. He's a short passing, tough tackling, possession regaining and holding, hard working midfield type of player. A Frank Lampard type of player (another player unappreciated when he was at WH). He has a greyer role in the team, and is more useful in away games and home games against the top 4 clubs.

2. And he's local. There are some people (not all fortunately) who just can't stand a local boy doing well - small thinking parochial jealously gets in the way of appreciating the guy as a footballer. Same happened with Bobby Zamora and probably a few more.

Personally, I think he's a great asset and should be treasured, even made club captain. In my opinion his best role is not at the tip of a diamond midfield and I see him more of a Parker/Kovac in the future, but whatever, he's a great squad player. We should be supporting players like this, not continually questioning his value to the club :think:
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by QuintonNimoy »

libero wrote:1. Many people seem not to understand the type of player he is and the kind of role he can have with us. He's not a Brooking, Devonshire, Joe Cole, Di Canio, Diamanti type player - never has been, never will be. He's a short passing, tough tackling, possession regaining and holding, hard working midfield type of player. A Frank Lampard type of player (another player unappreciated when he was at WH). He has a greyer role in the team, and is more useful in away games and home games against the top 4 clubs.
Agree he is probably not a mercurial creative player in the sense of Brooking or DiCanio. I'm not sure he has yet developed into the role you describe either though. His tackling is still wild at times, and I feel Zola's influence has been very bad for one of his worst habits, which is holding onto the ball for too long. Kovac, for all his other faults, tries to give the ball quickly to someone who can do something with it. Noble doesn't (presumably thinking he is the one to do something with it), he holds it wandering from side to side, looking for a long pass (which he's not capable of making with any reliability), and when we're against a top side or away our counterattacking pace peters out immediately he gets the ball. Compared with Parker who surges quickly forwards bridging the gap from defence to attack and midfield to strikers he's inneffective.

I think the view of him as an attacking player comes from the Tevez inspired great escape where he linked effectively with Tevez and was routinely a goal threat himself. It's hard to imagine the Mark Noble of today making the same runs and passes as he did then. Maybe a more direct coaching influence might benefit him.

His biggest problem it seems to me is that he doesn't have the complete skill set to fulfill any one position, and as a jack of all trades is cursed to be a permanent sub. He's not a great runner with the ball, an average passer, not a great tackler, he dwells on things too much and isn't decisive enough. It sounds like I'm being harsh on him and I don't mean to, I think he has good qualities but I don't think they complement eachother.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by libero »

Quinton

Yes, I think that's a very fair and insightful post and I think you've highlighted why he hasn't seemed to move forward as much as we'd have liked. I think that he will improve with age and with good coaching, and I'd like to see fewer people knocking him and more people being constructive as you have been in your post. He does suffer from 'jack of all trades' as you point out, but that also makes him a great squad player.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by daniel »

1. Lampard a tough tackling, holding midfielder? Never. Noble isn't half the player Lampard is, and he never will be. He is an ok defensive midfielder and ***** anywhere else.

2. That's just silly. There have been plenty of local boys doing well over the years(he isn't one of them btw), and no seemed to have a problem then.


Bottom line is, he's not good enough as CM/AM, and we've better players in defensive midfield.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by double pie'n'mash luv »

libero wrote:I've always thought the the problem of so many WH fans undervaluing Mark Noble comes down to 2 very basic things:

1. Many people seem not to understand the type of player he is and the kind of role he can have with us. He's not a Brooking, Devonshire, Joe Cole, Di Canio, Diamanti type player - never has been, never will be. He's a short passing, tough tackling, possession regaining and holding, hard working midfield type of player. A Frank Lampard type of player (another player unappreciated when he was at WH). He has a greyer role in the team, and is more useful in away games and home games against the top 4 clubs.

2. And he's local. There are some people (not all fortunately) who just can't stand a local boy doing well - small thinking parochial jealously gets in the way of appreciating the guy as a footballer. Same happened with Bobby Zamora and probably a few more.

Personally, I think he's a great asset and should be treasured, even made club captain. In my opinion his best role is not at the tip of a diamond midfield and I see him more of a Parker/Kovac in the future, but whatever, he's a great squad player. We should be supporting players like this, not continually questioning his value to the club :think:



Well, stick him on the bench behind those two then, as he is certainly no better than Parker in that role, and let either Collison or Diamanti Play the forward midfield role. Collison was'nt great at Villa, but then he ain't a winger, plus, always has Noble nicking that position, ahead of him.

To your second point. I think everyone on here wants Noble to succeed, because he is local. As i've said already, i'd love him to be able to boss midfields, but it ain't happenning, is it. If you really think it is, your watching a different player.
I'm not jealous, i just love the club more than an individual.

It's no good having a hard working player, but who's ability's really are'nt up to the job in hand. He can run for 90 mins, but if he keeps on giving balls away, all that hard work amounts to nothing.

There's a difference between slating someone and being realistic



Edit: Quintin, the problem is that he is'nt a permanant sub is he, he get's played ahead of other players. This thread would'nt exist if he was only playing as a sub :lol:
Last edited by double pie'n'mash luv on Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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smuts
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by smuts »

libero wrote:
1. A Frank Lampard type of player (another player unappreciated when he was at WH). He has a greyer role in the team, and is more useful in away games and home games against the top 4 clubs.

2. And he's local. There are some people (not all fortunately) who just can't stand a local boy doing well - small thinking parochial jealously gets in the way of appreciating the guy as a footballer. Same happened with Bobby Zamora and probably a few more.
1. Sadly he doesn't have the ability to pass it over 10 yards like Lampard does........and get on the score sheet on a consistent basis.

2. If anything Noble gets an easier ride off of Joe Punter because he had come through the ranks. There are people over there who slate anything in a Claret and blue shirt....but when it comes to Noble won't say a word.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by QuintonNimoy »

double pie'n'mash luv wrote:Edit: Quintin, the problem is that he is'nt a permanant sub is he, he get's played ahead of other players. This thread would'nt exist if he was only playing as a sub :lol:
:lol: I must have been hallucinating that we had options again.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by double pie'n'mash luv »

QuintonNimoy wrote: :lol: I must have been hallucinating that we had options again.


You on them shrooms again :lol:
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Similar to Darren Fletcher then...and we all know that HE'S *****...

:?
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SenzaPaura
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by SenzaPaura »

double pie'n'mash luv wrote:
It's no good having a hard working player, but who's ability's really are'nt up to the job in hand. He can run for 90 mins, but if he keeps on giving balls away, all that hard work amounts to nothing.

There's a difference between slating someone and being realistic
The thing is, this thread was started at a time when Noble was consistently our best passer by a distance, in terms of creativity and raw stats. That's why I'm very suspicous of most of the claims here.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by rare as rockinghorse shat »

SenzaPaura wrote:The thing is, this thread was started at a time when Noble was consistently our best passer by a distance, in terms of creativity and raw stats. That's why I'm very suspicous of most of the claims here.
He's never, at any point in his West Ham career, been our best passer or most creative player.

For a start, both Nigel Quashie and Jack Collison are better passers of a football and one of them doesn't even play.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

SenzaPaura wrote:The thing is, this thread was started at a time when Noble was consistently our best passer by a distance, in terms of creativity and raw stats. That's why I'm very suspicous of most of the claims here.

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote: He's never, at any point in his West Ham career, been our best passer or most creative player.

For a start, both Nigel Quashie and Jack Collison are better passers of a football and one of them doesn't even play.
Not exactly true mate...One just doesn't actually play for West Ham right now..the other might as well not be......

:lol:
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by Tel The Hammer »

Ooooooooh, get 'Ouston...

The man who takes any given opportunity to slag everyone of our players, all apart from Noble.

I bet you can't wait for Parker to pick up a slight knock so you can slate him again, can you 'Ouston?

You disgust me.
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by FDiMcA »

libero wrote:Quinton
:thup: to both of you, interesting comment not available in teh Match Programme, MotD, or The Sun; Thank You
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Re: The big Mark Noble debate...

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Tel

you forgot the smiley......

You obviously spent too much time with your bird this weekend..you've lost your sense of yuma.......

:wink:
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