The big Mark Noble debate...

[BLT319]

Why is he fickle for merely expressing an opinion Alf?

FWIW I don't agree with the OP's point either but this is a forum where people are invited to share their thoughts. Feel free to disagree but please try to be a little more constructive in future. Thanks.

well i think hes saying he is fickle because we all want players who are loyal to the team and love west ham like we do, and now that there is 1 we want to sell him? slightly fickle.



also that twice more than ive used the word fickle than i have in my whole life, 3 times now.

[Clucking Bell]

The problem with this thread is that almost everyone's made a fair point ..he's the one player on our team that gives me splinters in my arse due to the amount of fence sitting I do when I think about what he brings to the team.

If you look at the good, Zamora and him formed the main attacking threat with Tevez on the run-in during the great escape. On the other hand, he doesn't seemed to have progressed that much since.

I think he also suffers from not doing one thing exceptionally well. At the same age, we could see that Joe Cole was outstanding with the ball at his feet and Fat Frank had an uncanny knack of standing in exactly the right place to smash home a twenty yard shot. Noble isn't like that, he does most things quite well but he isn't fantastic at anything.

If I remember, Sir Trev didn't hold down a regular starting place in the team until he was 23/24 and for a similar reason: he was good at a lot of things and Ron Greenwood couldn't decide where to play him. My view is Clarke and Zola needs to decide the same thing with respect to Noble and mould him into a great player over the next couple of seasons ..... if we're resurrecting this thread early in 2011, it'll be time to get rid of him then.

[Morocco Mole]

The problem with this thread is that almost everyone's made a fair point ..he's the one player on our team that gives me splinters in my arse due to the amount of fence sitting I do when I think about what he brings to the team.

If you look at the good, Zamora and him formed the main attacking threat with Tevez on the run-in during the great escape. On the other hand, he doesn't seemed to have progressed that much since.

I think he also suffers from not doing one thing exceptionally well. At the same age, we could see that Joe Cole was outstanding with the ball at his feet and Fat Frank had an uncanny knack of standing in exactly the right place to smash home a twenty yard shot. Noble isn't like that, he does most things quite well but he isn't fantastic at anything.

If I remember, Sir Trev didn't hold down a regular starting place in the team until he was 23/24 and for a similar reason: he was good at a lot of things and Ron Greenwood couldn't decide where to play him. My view is Clarke and Zola needs to decide the same thing with respect to Noble and mould him into a great player over the next couple of seasons ..... if we're resurrecting this thread early in 2011, it'll be time to get rid of him then.

You make a fair point in that his best position hasn't really been found yet, but that is more the fault of his previous coaches than the player himself. The fact is he's a good footballer who can play anywhere between the two boxes (hence why Wenger likes him). That versatilty hasn't done the likes of Fabregas, Scholes or Pirlo any harm. These are the players he can and should aspire to IMO...

[PaulTheHammer]

The last two posters got there before me on this one. I really don't quite know what the best position is for Mark and I don't think the management know that either. Without pinning that down, Nobes is bound to suffer. I do think that when Parker and Dyer came in, it was expected for them to be the focus of the midfield, that was the plan for the future. I wouldn't sell the lad, not until he's given a definite role and given time to prove himself in that role - whether it be defensive or attacking midfield.

[YGNB]

I agree with the opinions that his best position isn't yet known. TBH I think the last time he impressed me was against Brum away last year.

But he is young and has got potential, I think I prefer him in an attacking role. For the under 21's he is a cut above the rest.

Definitely wouldn't be in our best interests to sell the boy.

[AlfieG]

Why is he fickle for merely expressing an opinion Alf?

FWIW I don't agree with the OP's point either but this is a forum where people are invited to share their thoughts. Feel free to disagree but please try to be a little more constructive in future. Thanks.

Are you on a fishing trip too today UTJ??

You may notice that I did not agree OR disagree with this original (Stupid IMO) suggestion. But thanks for agreeing with me anyway.

Some of the people on here are never constructive and have very little that is positive to say about the club I and many others on this fine website love. If you dont mind, I will continue to add my constructive tuppensworth as usual when I see things that interest me.

As I always say......... Opinions are like arseholes........ Everyone has got one. (Long may that continue eh UTJ?).

[fmgod]

I don't think its in the best interests he leaves West Ham but for him to be a better player he has to leave.

[Tel The Hammer]

What I meant to base this thread on was that I'd rather see Noble go instead of Parker. I'd been out and was a bit pissed when I wrote my original post out and I could've worded it better to be honest. Just look at the time I posted it.

I like Noble and I like the fact he's West Ham through and through. But as I said in my first post I feel he should be showing a lot more at his age of 21. I pointed to Collison and to add another name into the mix I'll add Fabregas - Most modern players in today's game who are really going to cut the mustard are established at 21 years of age. I'm sure there's many more players in the last five years who have been established and were already flourishing before the age of 21, but unfortunately the hangover is stopping me remembering some names right now. I'll post some up later once the head comes round, hopefully!.

The other point I was trying to get across was that for me, Collison has delivered more developed and established performances in the premier league in his short stint in the side than Noble has since we've been back in the top flight.

Just to reiterate my point that I meant to display. I don't want to see Noble sold, I'd just rather lose Noble at this stage of our season than Parker. That's if the money was right and it'd be invested back into the side.

Oh and for the record, unfortunately I feel Noble will never be as good or reach the heights Joe Cole, Michael Carrick or Fat Frank have.

[Morocco Mole]

What I meant to base this thread on was that I'd rather see Noble go instead of Parker. I'd been out and was a bit pissed when I wrote my original post out and I could've worded it better to be honest. Just look at the time I posted it.

I like Noble and I like the fact he's West Ham through and through. But as I said in my first post I feel he should be showing a lot more at his age of 21. I pointed to Collison and to add another name into the mix I'll add Fabregas - Most modern players in today's game who are really going to cut the mustard are established at 21 years of age. I'm sure there's many more players in the last five years who have been established and were already flourishing before the age of 21, but unfortunately the hangover is stopping me remembering some names right now. I'll post some up later once the head comes round, hopefully!.

The other point I was trying to get across was that for me, Collison has delivered more developed and established performances in the premier league in his short stint in the side than Noble has since we've been back in the top flight.

Just to reiterate my point that I meant to display. I don't want to see Noble sold, I'd just rather lose Noble at this stage of our season than Parker. That's if the money was right and it'd be invested back into the side.

Oh and for the record, unfortunately I feel Noble will never be as good or reach the heights Joe Cole, Michael Carrick or Fat Frank have.

At least last night you had an excuse for talking rubbish Tel

[sanchoz]

For me Mark Noble has been a bog standard premier league player ...

and we are a very average club who should be keeping the likes of Noble, rather then having to spend millions on others

[party iron]

i have been drinking and do not mean to to upset any one but


b*llocks

thank you now i will go to bed :lol:

[mrmoonhasleftthestadium]

Tel are you suggesting that Scott Parker at 21 was a better player than Mark Noble is at this stage?

They seems to have similar stats, so i am wondering. What make's you feel Mark wont be the player Parker is at 29.

[Clucking Bell]

....unfortunately I feel Noble will never be as good or reach the heights Joe Cole, Michael Carrick or Fat Frank have.

But, realistically, does he need to? I don't think that any of those three, for example, ever hit the heights of Devonshire or Brooking. If Noble turns out to be, say, another Geoff Pike, a Neil Orr or a Peter Butler, he'll still have done a good job.

[Tel The Hammer]

Tel are you suggesting that Scott Parker at 21 was a better player than Mark Noble is at this stage?

They seems to have similar stats, so i am wondering. What make's you feel Mark wont be the player Parker is at 29.

That's a good question mate...

I can't really answer it all that well as Parker and Noble, for me, are completely different types of players to one and other. I'd say Parker is more suited to a defensive role where as I see Noble as much more of an attacking type of player. But in answer to the question you asked me, I honestly can't remember how good Parker was at the age of 21.

My whole point was I feel Parker is much more of an important player to us in our current situation as he's the only proven defensive midfielder we have at the club (as I'm not a fan of Mullins). Where as we have Behrami, Collisonand Dyer who could do exactly what Noble does and maybe do it better.

If we could get anything over £5m on Noble and bring in a decent left winger using that amount, I'd be very content.

[Seven Bs]

It would be daft to sell Noble, surely? True, he hasn't really kicked on in the last year, but Zola and Clarke seem to have faith in him, and I'm sure they'll help him to improve. They have also started playing him in a more advanced position, which is where eventually I think we'll see the best of him (he certainly looked like an attacking midfielder when he first came into the side, yet Curbishley seemed to regard him as Parker's understudy). He hasn't shown great form of late, and will never be the kind of pacey player who goes past people, but what we really need at the moment is an effective playmaker with the vision to pick a decent pass in the final third, and Noble is the most likely of our current players to develop into one. We should stick with him.

[Hammer Laffers]

I see the point but I would rather sell Mullins and Faubert before Noble

[Tel The Hammer]

I see the point but I would rather sell Mullins and Faubert before Noble

...and so would I.

[Trap1]

The thread title concerns me as it seems that some of the fans have now become like our present owner and the owner before that. I want to watch a football team being built and taken forward while there now appears to be a mentatilty to constantly cash in with our players once we get bored of them.

There is no such thing about the money being right, its whether you can get a replacement that takes the club forward and I can't see how thats going to happen.

Noble is a player that this season is moving from being the up and coming, to the established pro and with that comes higher expectations. I think the player deserves more time to develop into his role and if we give him that chance then Mark will be a future West Ham captain.

[mrmoonhasleftthestadium]

Thanks for the response. I just wanted to ask as you attend the games and wonder if you want to see a quick fix (in regards to get replacements into get us a trophy). Its just worries me that if we take up the stance of not letting players develop we are really in trouble. For an example i would love to see West Ham win a cup but do we want to find ourselves in the position of Portsmouth with no real squad depth trying to buy back ex players like O Neill just a season after winning the cup. They should be progressing. from what they achieved. I just personally believe that Eggerts 5 year plan statement and the clubs PR have well and truly shot us in the foot. You used Fabregas as an example but that player is head and shoulders above players at 29 and to be honest if we had him he would be now be playing for a team in the top four. Cesc on the training field at 15 has players around him at Barca that were world class and he would of learnt a lot from training day to day in with a top class set up. What pleases me is that Clarke and Zola have played for a team (like it or lump it) that has won cups and titles. I believe that the work West Ham are doing behind the scenes will benefit us with years to come. A continental set up just as Benetiz, Wenger and even Ferguson had to adapt to is the way forward. Gone are the bling days (thank god). Alongside Nani and the god that is Tony Carr we are in a better long term position. It maybe a case of Mark Noble being the player that a younger youth player (Being domectic or a foreign youth player we have on the books) will be looking up to and Mark represents the spirit and ideals of the club and this he shows his true value and potential.

[saludo de carlitos]

If it wasn't for Noble we wouldn't even be in this league. He is one of the only players in the team that looks like he is ever gonna create.