The big Mark Noble debate...

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Chuck D
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Chuck D »

Morocco Mole wrote:
Your turn now Chuck. Explain to me how Collison has been a 'revelation' in comparison to Noble? Feel free to use stats.... :wink:
Well Morroco, thats a good question, glad you asked....

In comparison to Noble.

This is Collison's first full year, its Nobles fifth. It would be reasonable to expect that a player in his fifth season in the first team would be more capable than a player in his first - no? Perhaps some would argue that its not Jack's first season as he played two games (compared to Nobles 21 - including on loan games - in his first full season). Even so, the difference is marked.

Collison - 16 (inc 2 as a sub) games, three goals in the league. Better than 1 in every five starts.

Noble - 21 games (one as a sub), three goals in the league. Almost 1 in seven. One of those is a penalty. So one goal every ten games from open play.

Also, Collison has performed at the highest level in his first full season, whereas Noble was playing at a lower level.

Plus, for a player in his first season, Collison is outscored by only DDM, and Cole.

Finally, from a totally subjective view, Collison at no point has looked out of his depth, hasnt thrown himself into tackles that he shouldnt, nor has he lost composure when he has lost the ball.

I'm here to help. :lol:
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Chuck D »

Shreddie

I'm not saying that he wont.

Simply asking why everyone is convinced that Zola/Clarke will succeed where two well thought of managers have failed with Noble.

Sometimes, the problem isnt the manager.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Iron Spine v2.0 »

wibble
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by I am law »

Collison - 16 (inc 2 as a sub) games, three goals in the league. Better than 1 in every five starts.
As much as that stat is very welcome (because I often wondered before Christmas whether Noble and Parker both played too deep), do you not think that Noble is required to stay further back down the pitch, as part of team tactics?

If I am right on that, he's surely going to get fewer goal-scoring chances from open play.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Morocco Mole »

Chuck D wrote: Well Morroco, thats a good question, glad you asked....

In comparison to Noble.

This is Collison's first full year, its Nobles fifth. It would be reasonable to expect that a player in his fifth season in the first team would be more capable than a player in his first - no? Perhaps some would argue that its not Jack's first season as he played two games (compared to Nobles 21 - including on loan games - in his first full season). Even so, the difference is marked.


Collison - 16 (inc 2 as a sub) games, three goals in the league. Better than 1 in every five starts.

Noble - 21 games (one as a sub), three goals in the league. Almost 1 in seven. One of those is a penalty. So one goal every ten games from open play.

Also, Collison has performed at the highest level in his first full season, whereas Noble was playing at a lower level.

Plus, for a player in his first season, Collison is outscored by only DDM, and Cole.

Finally, from a totally subjective view, Collison at no point has looked out of his depth, hasnt thrown himself into tackles that he shouldnt, nor has he lost composure when he has lost the ball.

I'm here to help. :lol:
Collison is a better athlete, Noble has more skill. Personally I'd like to think they will be both playing for West Ham for many years to come....
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Chuck D »

As I see it, three midfielders move up the pitch together, with one holding.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Chuck D »

Morroco

Do you think that Nobles much vaunted (and shown on Sky) love of pie and Mash is holding him back?
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by I am law »

Chuck D wrote:As I see it, three midfielders move up the pitch together, with one holding.
But is that what you see when you've watched us with both player in the team.

Or is that how you see it should be?

I don't think that, in the 5 years Noble has been in or around the first team, he has, for instance, followed up someone's shot and reacted first (as Jack did against City).
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Morocco Mole »

Chuck D wrote:Morroco

Do you think that Nobles much vaunted (and shown on Sky) love of pie and Mash is holding him back?
Well it's never done me any harm..... *belch*


(and it's Morocco... :D )
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Chuck D »

IAL

Agreed.

Point is, I cannot imagine for one moment that someone (any of his three managers) has suggested that Noble not do that.

In fact, maybe they did. Cos he scored a goal when Keen was in charge.......just like the one you described.....
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by bubbles1966 »

Morocco Mole wrote: Noble has more skill.
Mmmm........ not sure about that one.......

Collison's composure and finishing is at least as good.......while his ability to carry the ball and dribble past the opposition is better.....

Noble may be a better passer.....
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Bamber Gascoigne »

Nobles passing today was awful
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by I am law »

Chuck D wrote:IAL

Agreed.

Point is, I cannot imagine for one moment that someone (any of his three managers) has suggested that Noble not do that.

In fact, maybe they did. Cos he scored a goal when Keen was in charge.......just like the one you described.....
Ha! I knew, as I pressed 'submit' that there must be one memorable example of his doing that. IIRC Neill did something similar in the same game. Not that I went to that match.

As much as it seems unlikely that we'll see much of it this season, perhaps Dyer will turn out to be the player to whom Zola will give 'tip of diamond' detail.

A 'front 6' of

- - - - - - Kovac - - - Parker - - - - - -

Collison - - - - Dyer/Savio - - - Behrami/Noble


- - - - - - - - - Cole/Ashton - - - - - - -

:think:

Not bad, especially if Ilunga can get forward on the overlap and Neill can pick his passes from deeper on the right.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Morocco Mole »

I like:

------------Parker------------
-------Noble--Collison-----
Dyer-----------------------Savio
------------Cole---------------
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by bubbles1966 »

Bamber Gascoigne wrote:Nobles passing today was awful
In fairness - he didn't have much to hit up front. It looked like we were playing with 9 men a lot of the time.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by I am law »

Morocco wrote:-----------Parker------------
-------Noble--Collison-----
Dyer-----------------------Savio
------------Cole---------------
No Valon?

He's a starter every time, when fit, for me, much as I am a Nobes fan.
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Morocco Mole »

I am law wrote:No Valon?

He's a starter every time, when fit, for me, much as I am a Nobes fan.
Yeah, my bad....Behrami for one of Noble/Collison depending on form.. :thup:
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by bubbles1966 »

If Kovac fits in

then

-----------Parker - Kovac ---------
-----Dyer------Collison-------Savio
-------------------Cole -----------------

Behrami and LBM depend on us needing defenders while Noble is competing for the Collison role...
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by Morocco Mole »

bubbles1966 wrote:If Kovac fits in

then

-----------Parker - Kovac ---------
-----Dyer------Collison-------Savio
-------------------Cole -----------------

Behrami and LBM depend on us needing defenders while Noble is competing for the Collison role...
I don't see Kovac starting if everyone's fit. He's a just a tall Mullins (without the passing :wink:)
In that system, I'd have Noble in ahead of Collison all day long. Collison is box to box, not a number 10.....
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Re: Flog Noble if the money's right...

Post by m-h »

I don't think that, in the 5 years Noble has been in or around the first team, he has, for instance, followed up someone's shot and reacted first (as Jack did against City).[/quote]

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