Alessandro Diamanti

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Antnee
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Antnee »

Looks like you had a good time. What was all that white flag waving about though?
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by FDiMcA »

QuintonNimoy wrote:
I would agree if I had any faith in Ashton producing a run of fitness and contributing to the season.
Unfortunately given Ashton's status as dead, we only appear to have 2 players for the job. Given that it's common even amongst teams who habitually play with a single striker to switch to 2 up front when expedient we're leaving ourselves tactically bereft of options.

I seriously doubt we picked up someone good enough to lead the line regularly in the premiership from Chelsea's youth team for peanuts.

Ashton's wages may be on the books, but if he's simply never going to play again you can't consider them as being associated with a striker, they're just a loss and the playing squad still needs balancing.

I guess the nub is that from having a bloated squad, to having a trimmed squad, we're now at the point were further cuts are going too far, and having players who simply aren't contributing is leaving us dangerously exposed.

:thup: you see I think of Ashton as Coles back-up. Nouble as the youth player/shadow squad who might later in the season or in Carling cup games, or as a sub in games that are already won or lost get some game time.
I think all 3 of them share the one shirt.

So I feel Ashton is due back Oct/Nov and for that reason we cant afford to replace Ashton one of our highest paid players with a player for Sep/Oct 2 months. When Ashton is a reserve player for club and country (due to Coles asendency) and is back in 2 months time - you cant replace him with someone on a years contract.

The situation with Ashton is considerably better than the one with LBM who really is dead to us.

Now it may be that Ashton breaks down again, or gets fit but like Owen 2008/2009 is a shadow of his former self.
But we cant replace him untill that happens. I would agree that at that point which we will reach witrh certitude by Xmas he needs replacing.

The second striker berth is IMHO nothing to do with Ashton or Nouble.
Each of them are in a drawer marked "Drogba" the former filed not under A for Ashton but under D for Deano; e.g. behind Carlton Cole, and the later filed after Z in a special miscelaneous folder.

The second striker drawer contains an empty folder marked "first choice", and behind that is a folder containing Savio!
The special miscelaneous section of this drawer includes Sears!, and Hines, and lying losse at the bottom is Belamy with "unsuitable" stamped on it in red ink. The second striker situation is alarming.

I agree that we will sometimes play with a second striker, plan B. Perhaps in half our games for half the game.
Chelsea and Man U seem to be moving away from that tactic.

So if that Second striker (plan B) position is only going to be used in some games (now and then), and then often only during the second half, once we have signed that Second striker (a new striker who is nothing like Cole, Ashton or Nouble) then the covering player we have for them is the least likley player to play in all of Zolas 22 outfield squad.

So assume we sign this sceond striker; no matter how infrequently we will use the cover/reserve for them a reserve is needed to give the management options.
The understudy for the yet to be signed second striker is:
Either: That attacking midfielder we are about to sign OR Savio though its a lot to ask Savio a novice to be a solid reliable Premiership squad member , Or Jiminez, or Dyer.

Hines and Sears being not yet part of Zolas key 22.

So we sign a second striker (the famous Bellamy replacement) - only its a player who is a lot more integrated with midfield and more supportive of their strike partner than Bellamy, and cleverer than Bellamy (Gudjohnsen, Chamakh, or Diamnatis)

And we sign an out and out attacking midfielder (Gudjohnsen, Chamakh, or Diamantis), who can double up as cover for the second striker (again Gudjohnsen, Chamakh, or Diamantis).

Ashton remains in the mix hoping for a November return.

and we potentially hit December with

Keeper + Back 4 + Parker (Kovac) = 6 players

leaving room for 5 players (each of whom has an understudy)

7 Noble (Collison)
8 Behrami (LBM)
9 Cole (Ashton)
10 Jimenez (Dyer)
11 Diamanti/Gudjohnsen/Chamakh (Stanislas)

and should Zola want a plan B he has a second striker in
Diamanti/Gudjohnsen/Chamakh (Savio)

======
So we need to sign 2 from Diamanti/Gudjohnsen/Chamakh
The presennce of Kovac, Collison, behrami is irrelevant.

Furthermore:
If its the case that LBM although no longer the attacking threat he was way back At Arsenal is a bit more attacking than Behrami and LBM is effectivley dead to us, then the need to sign at least 2 from Diamanti/Gudjohnsen/Chamakh (all of whom can play attacking midfield OR striker) becomes even more severe.

All summer long Zola has been linked with these sort of players
The club even stated we were after Mancini.

Ashton is potentially a squad member who needs replacing, Faubert and Spector are arguably not good enough, cover for Illunga with more experience than Deprela seems important. There are deals to be done.

But I honsetly feel untill we have signed 2 from Diamanti/Gudjohnsen/Chamakh we are short of bodies (fit or unfit, good or bad), and getting thoise 2 players is more important than improving on the ones we have.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by FDiMcA »

szola wrote: Yes, Behrami's (and Collison's) role should be different from ex. Dyer. My point was just that if needed, I can see Zola playing him [Behrami] as a wide attacker - if our midfield for one game consists of Collison-Parker-Kovac-Noble-Behrami, I'd like to see the two wings moved up a notch, instead of the other three, and I'll be more confident that such a line-up will work, then having Nouble start


before I know when (if) Ashton will be back, I'll be nervously watching Cole, fingers crossed that he'll make it through yet another game unhurt.
I agree Behrami is incredibly versatile, confident with the ball, and possibly our most industrious player. He is a bit of a managers dream and could be used in a number of roles because of this.

I am not offering a personal opinion on his ability but I feel last season O'Neil saw NRC a bit like that, versatile, enthusiastic, and capable. This season I think NRC will progress back towards that Bryan Robson role Pardew envisaged for him - having learnt last season about full back roles, and various midfield positions.

Behrami is not as attacking as Robson was or NRC wants to be, but he is so good and complete a player that he may well suffer from not getting a position of his own this season.

So I fully agree in your expectations and confidence in Behrami. :thup:
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by FDiMcA »

QuintonNimoy wrote: Refreshingly from pre-season we seemed to have switched from never shooting outside the 6 yard box to shooting on sight which I think we have to do from now on.
The lack of goals from midfield was the most obvious weakness at west ham for many years.
That Zola has fixed up the defence and the Makelele/Parker position, reinvigorated teh Drogba/Cole position and is now ready to fine tune mid-field is obvious.

But as you say its great to see a West Ham manager for once get straight into fixing an obvious deficiency the obvious way.
Zola may well be the most complex and tactical manager we have had since Lyall and Macari but he is not being shy about the need for midfielders to score.
I suppose Jiminez offers a potential Liam Brady or Dalglish style midfield goals, and Noble offers Scholes/Platt or at a push lampard style goals. Collison offers Brooking style, and Berhrami maybe if encouraged Gerrard style.

From looking at our midfield as a goals wasteland for so so many years I expect 2 of them to get 7 or more this season.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Chuck D »

mickfbrown wrote:
You mean an Italian international with over 100 Seria A goals !?

Sounds like premier league quality to me.
Yeah, Alan Shearer was a good goal scorer too, maybe we should have got him in?

Or Matt Le Tissier?

Kevin Phillips?

Andrew Cole?

You reckon a bloke who couldnt get a game at Torino was going to be good enough for the Premiership?

Blimey Mick, you know your football, for sure.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by bristolhammerfc »

I am still struggling to understand Nani's role. He has known about the financial situation since at least January, and "the project", since last September, yet here we are scratching for targets. He should have a list a mile long, with perspective prices, availability etc. Even if our first 50 targets turn us down he should have another 50?

What has he spent all his time doing? :think:
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

Chuck D wrote:
I expected a Premiership quality striker, as we are a Premiership club, I dont think that is an unreasonable expectation.

What I got was DDM.
No...but to expect that of a 32/33 year old DDM was. He relied on pace and trickery, something that has started to slowly desert him. He showed glimpses of it, but he is too old to perform it week in week out. You probably knew nothing about DDM, to know what to expect anyway.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by JonG86 »

bristolhammerfc wrote:I am still struggling to understand Nani's role. He has known about the financial situation since at least January, and "the project", since last September, yet here we are scratching for targets. He should have a list a mile long, with perspective prices, availability etc. Even if our first 50 targets turn us down he should have another 50?

What has he spent all his time doing? :think:
Trying to buy quality with the limited funds he has. Do keep up Bristol.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by resus »

A lot of good points in this thread a very good read indeed. Therefore I am even more unhappy that we didn't go for Damien Duff. He is a player who would have fitted in the role of a creating, attacking and goalscoring midfielder who can also be used as a striker like the already mentioned Gudjohnsen, Diamanti or the even less likely Chamakh. Duff unlike Chamakh and Diamanti is already proven at PL level. I don't now what his price was but Fulham have made decent business there IMO.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Tommy B »

Agree with bristol in the fact that Nani should have loads of options up his sleeve (maybe he does :think: ). He has the best job in the world picking players for West Ham traveling the globe looking for talent you cant get better than that. I just hope that plan J isnt DDM :D
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Happyhammer93 »

resus wrote:A lot of good points in this thread a very good read indeed. Therefore I am even more unhappy that we didn't go for Damien Duff. He is a player who would have fitted in the role of a creating, attacking and goalscoring midfielder who can also be used as a striker like the already mentioned Gudjohnsen, Diamanti or the even less likely Chamakh. Duff unlike Chamakh and Diamanti is already proven at PL level. I don't now what his price was but Fulham have made decent business there IMO.
Agree about Duff I have said before that he is a good player and would fit into our team and when Newcastle got relagated I said we should sign him.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by NeverSayDie »

Happyhammer93 wrote:
Agree about Duff I have said before that he is a good player and would fit into our team and when Newcastle got relagated I said we should sign him.
Haven't we already got 1 ex-Newcastle player earning over £50k a week, who after 2 years is only starting to maintain some kind of fitness. How many games has Duff missed in the last 2-3 seasons?
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Claretdave »

mickfbrown wrote:
You mean an Italian international with over 100 Seria A goals !?

Sounds like premier league quality to me.
DDM and DT would have been one of the best front pairings in the world in 2001/2002.

In 2008/2009 they were not up to Premiership standard, a few glimpses of magic apart.

Edit - have just noticed on or two others made the same point!
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by beckton »

Claretdave wrote:
DDM and DT would have been one of the best front pairings in the world in 2001/2002.

In 2008/2009 they were not up to Premiership standard, a few glimpses of magic apart.

In line with West Ham traditions, well done Nani. :lol:
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Ray Stewarts Right Foot »

Haven't we already got 1 ex-Newcastle player earning over £50k a week, who after 2 years is only starting to maintain some kind of fitness. How many games has Duff missed in the last 2-3 seasons?[/quote]

Exactly ...he is no more than average now and there would be no benefit putting him in front of Stanislas or Collinson both of whom are on a fraction of his wage. Duff had one decent season at Chelsea and two good seasons at a poor Blackburn side.

I can see people are starting to panic and just throwing names around to just to make a signing. I will wait til the end of the day on the 1st to see where we're at - last August we made the our best signing for a long while right on the deadline with Ilunga.

Diamanti seem's to have a decent pedigree and fit's the formation Zola is trying to play. I think this might be a busy week for us potentially.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by last.caress »

A busy week indeed. A few days of fee haggling, a few more days waiting while Duckers flies out (allegedly) to seal the deal, with just enough time left to a) realise the guy never wanted to come, b) listen to Duxbury's apologists bleat that "at least we're TRYING to shoot for the moon, would you rather we re-loaned Henri Camara?" (as though it's a question of either/or between the two extremes, when somewhere in the middle was the possibility that we could have spent the time since Bellend scarpered identifying genuinely attainable squad-strengthening targets), and c) sign Henri Camara, on loan, two minutes before the deadline.
I know that was all a bit prematurely negative, but it's all feeling a bit 'familiar' at the moment...
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Chuck D »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:
No...but to expect that of a 32/33 year old DDM was. He relied on pace and trickery, something that has started to slowly desert him. He showed glimpses of it, but he is too old to perform it week in week out. You probably knew nothing about DDM, to know what to expect anyway.
You seem to have missed the point. Whether or not you or I knew anything about DDM is irrelevant. If you want to spend your weekends watching lower level Italian teams playing each other good luck to you.

What I know is that after seeing him at WBA (you know, watching West Ham not Serie A), it was clear that he had no pace, and his bicycle kick that cleared the ground was a sign for the future.

Its not his fault that he wasnt good enough. He seemed to try gamely, but generally ended up on his arse.

Its the fault of the scouting network that thought he was good enough.

As I said - and you agreed - it was reasonable to expect a premiership side to sign a premiership quality striker. Not one who - to quote you - relied on pace and trickery earlier in his career, and didnt offer either (perhaps one game against Collocini aside).
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by bristolhammerfc »

JonG86 wrote:I am still struggling to understand Nani's role. He has known about the financial situation since at least January, and "the project", since last September, yet here we are scratching for targets. He should have a list a mile long, with perspective prices, availability etc. Even if our first 50 targets turn us down he should have another 50?

What has he spent all his time doing? :think:

Trying to buy quality with the limited funds he has. Do keep up Bristol.

Bloody hell he's earned his wages so far :eh:
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by Chuck D »

JonG86 wrote: Trying to buy quality with the limited funds he has. Do keep up Bristol.
Its that word trying again isnt it Jon?

If you fail your degree, will you walk into a job interview and say "well, I tried really hard, but I failed" and expect a job?

Thus far it seems that so far this summer, he has spoken to Beckham, Mensah, Fanni, Bojan, Eidur, Toni, Mancini, Chamouck, Kelvin Davis, Diamante, a french bloke out of contract, Lucas Neill, Salgado, and most likely a few others.

He has persuaded Nouble (who already knew Clarke), Jiminez (who said he would walk over broken glass to play for Zola - at least according to Scott) and Daprela to join the cause.

Seems anyone who doesnt already know Zola/Clarke, play for Jose, or is Swiss doesnt take the bait. And even some who do tick those boxes dont want to know (Mancini & Eidur).
Last edited by Chuck D on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alessandro Diamanti

Post by bristolhammerfc »

Great post Chuck,

If a manager lives and dies by results, how is the Director of Football judged?
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