1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................

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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby mushy on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:35 pm

Pop Robson wrote:
Is it worth me posting on this topic anymore, I feel my posts get ignored :think:



Of course! The more the merrier in my opinion, all suggestions and hints are more then welcome.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby mushy on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:38 pm

Ironworx wrote:Iron in the Blood by John Powles lists as sources....

Ironworks Gazette 1895-1905

Borough of West Ham and Stratford Express 1887-1894 (That's before TIWFC though)

Borough of West Ham, East Ham, and Stratford Express 1894-1901

West Ham Herald and South Essex Gazette 1892-1899

County Borough of West Ham Guardian 1898-1902

I'm going to try to get over there to put some time in myself, I'll get stuck into the Ironworks Gazette.


Yes and as far as I can see I have been through most of the above, apart from a decent collection of Thames Ironworks Gazzettes, does anyone have any ideas where I could find these?
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:27 pm

mushy wrote:

Of course! The more the merrier in my opinion, all suggestions and hints are more then welcome.


My fault, I only half read Pops post as it was of use to you rather than me. I saw it started with Brian Belton and I assumed it was the bibliography from his book.

Sorry Pop....................
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:55 pm

This is interesting....

http://www.thesnappingbishop.co.uk/blog ... bow-creek/

Its a webpage about a dry dock caisson (entrance gate) that's about a hundred metres upstream or so on the Thames of Bow Creek, it was renovated by the Thames Ironworks.....
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Pop Robson on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:26 pm

Green Hornet wrote:It may look that way to you but all the records indicate that the footage is from the 6th Round of the FA Cup tie March 1st, 1930 at Highbury.
http://www.westhamstats.info/westham.ph ... 1_Mar_1930" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
West Ham were the away team. They didn't score any goals. The team filmed scoring is in white shirts.


Online Records now changed to a home game :thup:

http://www.westhamstats.info/westham.ph ... 1_Mar_1930
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:30 pm

Pop Robson wrote:
Online Records now changed to a home game :thup:

http://www.westhamstats.info/westham.ph ... 1_Mar_1930" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Excellent, another piece of the historical record corrected by this thread....

And - The 1896 kit on Historical kits is correct now too....

Image

That's to add to the now correct 1899 - 1900 one...

Image

I think it's well done all round people :clap:
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Pop Robson on Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:34 pm

Green Hornet wrote:One final item. This is a link to a commemorative Trading Card set on Ebay. It does appear to feature the cover of a West Ham programme and at the very bottom it looks to me like it refers to the next home game which is also Arsenal:: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arsenal-FA-Cup-Wi ... 4001r30969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Too add to GH's discovery

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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:20 am

That's brilliant Pop :clap:

Any thoughts on the castle ? Is that the stylised castle of the times or is it a depiction of the Boleyn Castle ? The Boleyn Castle wasn't a castle in the way that immediately springs to mind, it was more of a fortified house.

One day I'd like to get to the bottom of whether the castle derives from the Castle shipping line or the Boleyn Castle.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Pop Robson on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:36 pm

Ironworx wrote:That's brilliant Pop :clap:

Any thoughts on the castle ? Is that the stylised castle of the times or is it a depiction of the Boleyn Castle ? The Boleyn Castle wasn't a castle in the way that immediately springs to mind, it was more of a fortified house.

One day I'd like to get to the bottom of whether the castle derives from the Castle shipping line or the Boleyn Castle.


The castle on the programme is 'Boleyn Castle' (Green St House) knocked down in 1955!! A real shame as it would be fanstastic to see that as you walk down Green St to the ground

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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ted Fenton on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:02 pm

I remember that it actually did not look all that impressive from the top deck of a trolleybus - route 690 if my memory is correct!
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:24 pm

I remember that vividly.Wasn't there some kind of Electric place or electric fabricator....to the left of the castle as your would look at it..Plus the programme sellers were right there. Trouble was by the time you bought one, wandered in, stood in line you'd read the bloody thing by the time you got inside and so still had another 2 odd hours to kill before k.o.

:cry:
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:17 pm

1955 ? I was under the impression that the Boleyn Castle was demolished long before that, and that it was on the exact site of the ground, I read somewhere that the foundations were still there some distance below the surface.....

Ah, I thought so: '...In the sixteenth century it was home to a rural estate, known as Green Street and Boleyn Castle. Although there was never a castle there as such, there was a large house and an adjacent castle tower which was known as Green Street House, Boleyn Castle or Ann Boleyn's Castle.'

The main house looks to have been demolished before the tower.....

Yes, there it is 1880: '...The Boleyn Ground takes its name from the imposing 16th century house owned by Richard Breame, a servant of Henry VIII’s, that stood on Green Street until it was demolished in 1880.'
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Pop Robson on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:37 pm

Plenty here below is a snippet; from http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=42741

The estate called GREEN STREET or BOLEYN CASTLE appears to have been built up in the 16th century, all or most of it being copyhold of the manor of East Ham Burnells. It lay near the southern end of the street from which it took its name.

In 1863 the house and grounds, were advertised for sale. They do not appear to have changed hands then, but in 1869 they were bought from the Morleys by Cardinal Manning, for use as a Roman Catholic reformatory school. After the reformatory was closed the southern part of the site was used for a Roman Catholic church and primary school. The house, after being used c. 1907–12 as a maternity home, was leased, with some adjoining land, to the West Ham United football club, which sub-let the house to the Boleyn Castle social club. The social club occupied the house until the Second World War. (In 1955 the house, which had become very dilapidated, was demolished.

The sale catalogue of 1863 lists all the rooms in the house and its outbuildings, and describes the gardens, which contained several fine cedars. When the Roman Catholics bought the house they demolished the gateway and erected a range of buildings along Green Street.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:24 pm

Interesting. Given that it was an estate it's odds on that various buildings were built and demolished over the years. The only bit that sounds anything like a castle though is the tower demolished in 1955. Pity my grandads no longer with us as he lived directly opposite the ground in the 1930s and no doubt could have added something.....
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby The Old Mile End on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:01 pm

Actually I don't think it was totally demolished in 1955. I moved to East Ham in 1971 (from Mile End of course) and used to walk past the ground every day on my way to school and then work for years.
There was a building - some kind of telephone exchange, that was virtually opposite the undertakers and Barnaby Rudge (Hairdressers). This buidling had one wall that had battlements on the top of it. This was the wall that faced the ground and ran parallel to the school that was next door for some years (now it is the car park to the DM Stand).
I remember noticing these battlements after looking out for them when reading about the Boleyn Castle. The wall was about two storeys high.

I don't know how old this building was, but it fits the description for a maternity home as referred to by Pop. 1971 is only 16 years after 1955 and that building was certainly old at the time.

Thing is, this wall stood for many years and was only replaced in relatively modern times (maybe in the last 15 years or so). I had emigrated by then and so only noticed it gone between visits.

So, it is possible that parts of the old house or grounds stood until the 1990's.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:45 pm

Yes, it sounds as if were dealing with a sizeable estate originally that was demolished over a period of maybe over 100 years. I remember the telephone exchange and must have seen the castleated wall but don't remember it, the tower was demolished two years before I was born.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby cockney hammer on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:57 pm

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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby The Old Mile End on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:26 am

Well done CH - again!!

This looks like the building I was referring to. The one furthest in the photo - you can clearly see the top of the side wall. It might be that they just built it in the same style as the tower down the street. However, it would seem to me that it was originally a part of the estate.

I dont know exactly where the tower stood - but assuming I am right about the building, then the ground entrance is just to the right of the tower. One of my books shows an old photo in training of a player holding up a ladder with two other players on it. This photo seems to be in the grounds of the old castle. It would appear to be between the tower and the building next to it. The players probably trained on the grass in the estate grounds maybe as late as WWII - maybe until we got Chadwell Heath.
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby cockney hammer on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:41 am

tome, the photo you are talking about the players up a ladder i am sure that is in the good old day's thread?
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Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was (Probably).................

Postby Ironworx on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:39 am

I've been thinking about this. We know that the estate was there in the times of Anne Boleyn which was the beginning of the 1500s, and it must have been a sizeable estate just on the area that we know it covered. There must have been some number of buildings built and demolished over that period of time, so its of no surprise that there should be foundations of something under the ground itself.

The only castle like building we know of was the stand alone tower, which appears more castle like in appearance than in effective use as a castle - I wonder if it was the gatehouse when built ?
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