|The very best posts from KUMB over the years ...
I've had a number of people on here disagree with me about the need to maintain a 'not for sale' position on Defoe. I've also seen a lot of people behaving as if the sale has already happened. It hasn't.
I was interested in Pardew's comments yesterday which were a combination of praise for Defoe and just how important he is to the team coupled with an air of resignation about not preventing his departure if he wants to go.
Let me once again make the case for Mr Brown saying no for once in his life:
1. In the Summer we turned down £10 million for Defoe from Manure. No doubt the reasoning was that a clear out of all our talent was madness and that we needed Defoe to lead the campaign for a return to the Premiership. We are now 4 months down the line, still in with a chance of promotion and the money on the table doesn't appear to be much better than what we could have taken in the Summer. OK, we have added in a couple of new strikers, but are you seriously telling me that they have the quality of Defoe?
2. Pardew knows that we are weak in the back four. I reckon that if we do sell, that is where he will spend the money. He will find it hard to get a striker of the quality required and the pressure will be on him to accept the strikers that we have already got at the club. Anybody that wants to see the sale of Defoe does not have the right to come back later and moan about a lack of goals from a Harewood/Connors/Deano combination. I'm not even bothering to think about Mellor as I don't think he's even Nationwide quality from what I've seen. As for Garcia. Well, I don't even need to say what the score is with him. If we get into a critical points battle or play-off situation, these will be the players that we will rely on;
3. The finances of a deal do not look attractive to me. If the Saha bid is £5.5 million, I have my doubts about getting to £10 million (unless the mad Russian decides he must have Defoe at any cost). 15% of any sale proceeds go back to Charlton as well. Compare that with the possibility of up to £25 - 30 million coming back with a return to the Premiership.
4. I've also heard people say this: "if Defoe decides not to sign a new contract, then we are faced with a Bosman situation just like with Joe Cole. It's better to cash in now." Not so, as I understand it as even at the end of his contract, Jermain will be under 23 and therefore his transfer fee will be decided by a FA tribunal. The same tribunal that slapped a fee of £1.5 million on him when we got him from Charlton as a 16 year-old. I reckon they would at least value him at £5 million, possibly more. So the downside could only be £5 million (assuming a £10 million sale now), and we get him for this season and even the next. In reality there are two possibilities here: he might sign a new contract if we are promoted or if we do not make it purchasers will know that his sale will be assessed by the FA and bids will come in accordingly, probably around the £5-6 million mark;
5. There is an intangible benefit as well. I say that the morale of the team and us as fans has been very badly affected by being tagged as a "feeder club". There are times in your life when you have to say no, to retain some semblance of dignity if nothing else. This may be a romantic idea, but I say that it is important to us, particularly after the year we have suffered.
At the end of the day, I accept that if a silly offer comes in then we will probably have to take it. But the logic of the argument above surely suggests that this has to be well above £10 million. At the end of the day, how many quality strikers are actually available out there at the moment? You tell me now if £10 million makes sense at the moment?
It would make sense to one man of course. I think you know who I mean. He's got form for selling at putting f**k all back into the club himself. He also played a crude trick at the AGM by describing Defoe as mentally unstable. This was a calculation that was aimed at making Defoe even more unhappy without - in Brown's calculation - affecting the sale price too much.
Last edited by East Stand Martin on Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
all very good points, but if he doesn't want to be here or play for us how will we ever get the best out of him, in football terms on the pitch not taking monitary things into it, i'd be inclined to see him go
to put it in context, Ian holloway stylee, if my misses told me that she no longer wants to be with me, and wants to go and play with that richer bloke up the road, i'd have no intention of keeping hold of the money grabbing whore, i'd say ta da, put me glad rags on and go out and get a new bimbo in tow who wants me to jump her bones and enjoys being here
so many defoe threads i don't know which one to pick but here goes.
if we do sell jem and i firmly believe we shoud not accept anything less than 10m (net 8.75 by the the time charlton get their cut at 15% of any fee over 1.65m), and even then we should sell to chelsea as they are the only mugs willing to pay the whole amount upfront (manure and arse will pay over 2 years)
more i look at it the less i want to sell, i just do not think there is enough quality out there to buy in for any positions!
To use your analogy, what if your receding hairline and beer belly means that your chances of pulling a replacement are limited?
At the end of the day, your missus may have been screwing around, but Defoe's just talked about being unfaithful. There's also a bit of difference between the marriage contract and the contract that Defoe's signed up to.
Sometimes, again to use your analogy, you have to make up and sort things out.
I know that you want him out, you've been saying so for a long time. I'm gonna ask you this - do you think we would have won that game yesterday without him? Do you think we would have turned around that Sunderland game without him? If - as I now expect - we will be in Cardiff next May in a play-off final, would you like to see him coming out onto the pitch? Be honest now.
when connoley was taken off i turned to chalks like a lot around us and thought of the front men the least creative at that time was defoe, and maybe it was time he was taken off, DC had created a good chance for himself just before that and the keeper had tipped it over,
hyperthetical i know but a stab in the dark yes without him i think we could still in fact would still have won yesterday, there were still occasions a pass would have been more productive than trying to beat another man otr get the shot of, like on friday
getting back to this woman thing
if i had the receeding hairline and the beer belly thing , rather than going for one lively young bird, it may be time to look at a couple of more mature and experienced women who would be grateful of the opportunity
So basically Sicknote,
You've got this good looking bird in tow and you let her go for a couple of mingers. Is that what you're asking us to do? You may not have the receding hairline and the beer belly, but - if you follow my drift - West Ham does in the club's current state.
[quote="sicknote"]when connoley was taken off i turned to chalks like a lot around us and thought of the front men the least creative at that time was defoe, and maybe it was time he was taken off, DC had created a good chance for himself just before that and the keeper had tipped it over,
He did well but if you have a look Harewood was free in the box but if you dont shoot you dont score hope he get's one soon
We've already got the ideal man to replace him.... Connolly.
Have to agree with s/n I'm afraid. Having said that, we can't let him go just for the sake of it. It must be for the right price only. Its all very well if his goals help us get promotion but what happens then? We'll still need to strengthen the squad in all areas or we'll just come straight back down again. If I'm honest, as much as I think we need promotion this season, planning beyond next season is far more important and we must do that as soon as possible. In any case, we'll have to sell him in the summer and clubs know it otherwise he'll go for nothing the following summer.
And, of course, always a chance that whilst sorting things out between you, you could lose the beer belly, change the hairstyle and make the good looking bird attracted to you again?
i'd never do a minger sir, they'd have to be a classy sort to get a bit of the sicknote passion going, if the good looking bird, wants to bugger off , then experience tells me she's a wrongun, let her go, you'll never get that sparkle back, well if youre in blackpool on saturday sir, i'm sure they'll be a few mature up for it honeys in flares, not into reducing me odds but feel free to join us
Here are the choices:
Sell Defoe and probably stay down. No money to spend. Try and win promotion next year with basically the same squad.
Keep Defoe and give ourselves the best chance of promotion. £25 - 30 million comes in. We are out in the transfer market and we get to see our club back where it should be with a fighting chance of staying up.
Yes I can fully see the plus points of keeping him but I'm trying to look beyond next season too. We're going to need more than a few signings and a pre-season warm up to form what we will need to stay up (basically half a team), because we are truly a Div 1 side now. If we can get a good price for him now and strengthen the side with players who are capable of making the step up to Prem football, then its a gamble I would be willing to take. But like I said, he should only be sold for a decent price.
Probably wouldn't be the same squad though would it, if we dont go up this season we will probably lose James, Carrick, any out of contract players and anyone who could get us some money to replace the payment from Sky which you get for one season after being relegated. (I think)
Even more reason to keep Defoe - we MUST go up this season !!!
You are right. I was being over-optimistic about retention of the same squad. We would undoubtedly lose the players you mention. Some people seem to think that it is good or instructive to stay down and rebuild for the Premiership. That is wrong. Ask Derby about that or Man City when they went into free-fall. History shows that if you don't immediately bounce back you are likely to stay down there for some time.
lovely thought, bollox would it happen though. mr brown might give pards a couple of quid to buy today's mitchell thomas, but that's about it...
understand your points esm, but the bottom line is the boy don't wanna be here, end of story really. and i've never seen a situation where a want-away player, forced to stay at a club against his wishes, has ever had a positive outcome for club or player.
sod the pretentious little prick, sell him...
Remember Sinclair? He wanted away and was told to stay. He then started performing well. He realised that he had no choice. Defoe will work out the same, becuase if he goes off and sulks and refuses to perform then what is the chance of him getting a move anyway. He's thinking about England - not performing will be self-defeating.
This is about man management. This is why we got Pardew. I have confidence that Alan will get the best out of him if we keep him.
I think of it like this. Let's imagine we had 5m quid and we didn't have defoe. Would we spend the money on him for 18 months, or elsewhere (on a creative midfielder, or on the defence) -- I'm pretty sure we'd think it was as silly as it would be to get Huckerby in.
It then becomes a bird in hand vs bush argument. We have Defoe, who is premiership class (also on relatively low wages), whereas we are likely to have problems persuading players in the premiership to step down to fill the other positions.
So I say, sell to pay (wages or transfer fees) for good players who would be willing to play in D1, otherwise sell in six months (promotion or not)
btw, The transfer fee decided by the tribunal is peanuts.... much less than market value now - it's only meant to cover youth development costs (which charlton paid most of)
But also, be honest, of the current squad, who would be the players you'd consider to be an integral part of the team now? My choices would include Repka, Brevett, Connolly, Etherington, Harewood, James (possibly), who are all tied to us with contracts anyway. The rest we wouldn't really miss or probably won't be of sufficient Prem standard. Thats a lot of replacements we'll need to get in the summer AND get them to gel in a matter of weeks in what will be a shorter pre-season due to the Euro championships. WBA got promoted with a Div 1 standard side...and came straight back down again.
Its six of one and half a dozen of the other really, whether he goes in January or the summer. I'd just prefer to build for a future now rather than later.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest