--S A L V A T I O N--

A selection of the very best posts and/or most memorable threads on KUMB since the current Forum launched in 2002.

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Adam 'The Smudge'
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Post by Adam 'The Smudge' »

Frank, you really have , yet again lived up to our expectations. 8)
You deserve to have a stiff drink, lay down, and sleep hibernatiously 'till May. Then when you awake, you'll find you are hurting no more and that as you predicted, WE SURVIVED. :lol:

You should have been a journalist. :!:
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Post by Amsterhammer »

I agree entirely with everything my slightly less bald chum just above wrote.

A respectful tip of the hat to you, oh sage McAff!!!!


:seeth: :seeth: :seeth: (until something changes)
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Post by FDiMcA »

PhilipG

: I dont do the lottery, I dont need to I back Romfords tips instead!

I absolutley agree with you about players attitudes. Hutchison is on about his 900th club, and James for all he says has a clause enabling him to leave, and saw it as a step down from Villa just as that was a step down from Liverpool. There are about 7 players who im certain care Moncs, DiCanio, Cole, Defoe, Schemmel, Winterburn, Pearce. Of those 3 will leave/retire in the summer,and 1 will be sold for an outrageous amount (but still too little) - no doubt legendary Ha :x mmers fan Roeder will instruct the replacments in pride and passion!

Northern Paulo

: I was sort of attempting to take the emotion out of this is which is why I have avoided putting Leeds and Villa in the reckoning - its interesting that the longer you look at Birmingham and Fulham and where and how they got their results, objectivley they are in trouble. Its interesting that both of us subjectivley think Sunderland are down - but objectivley they may be in quiet a strong position.

I suppose we need Bolton to loose tonight otherwise we might be bottom at Xmas whatever Saturdays result is.

Andrew

:"I admire your nostradamus-like interpretation of the remaining fixtures for the relegation candidates, but I am always cautious of reading too much into fixture lists and trying to anticipate how other teams will perform. There are just too many variables at work here, injuries suspensions, mamagers being sacked, individual motivations etc. "
:

Absolutley agreed but I have been fastidious in NOT speculating on results in this thread. My handicapping system was based on current league position. If I was doing it in Nostradamus mode I would have had Leeds mid-table and Boro chasing Europe for a start. I absolutley promise you I have not been gazing at crystal balls - the entire sentiment of this thread is to move away from Roeders 'spin', and any attempt to predict results and especially to predict a required points tally and work through the fixtures guessing scores has been avoided.

This thread will not bare record to a hunch from me a prediction it will show admist all the "Give Roeder more time" storys following Salvation, that the task of surviving was not lucky it was logical.

The illogical aspect in this season will not be our survival but teh fact that we are not challenging teams like Everton further up the ladder.

I apreciate your thoughts and just wanted to clear that up not to disagree in any way

All the best to us all and CMmmooon Leeds tonight.
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Post by FDiMcA »

William Hills:Sunderland lifted to 17th, out of the relegation zone. They're now 11/10 for the drop, ahead of West Ham at 5/6 and dead-certs Bolton (1/3) and West Brom (1/5). Despite all the troubles at Elland Road, you can still get 5/1 on Leeds being relegated.

My totting up of the coming fixtures put WBA, and Bolton in real trouble, and the bookies back me up. Although West Ham start Xmas at the bottom, it is arguably more pertinent to monitor their relative position to the likes of Fulham, Birmingham, and Sunderland over the coming fixturexs. Any strengthening from West Ham relative to these sides should see West Ham slip out of the relegation zone in the bookies charts if not imediatley in the league table.

==============

Recent Form

....................... Pld W D L F A GD GFA GAA PpG Pts Rank

Birmingham.......8 3 2 3 6 9 -3 0.75 1.12 1.37 11 10

Sunderland.......8 2 3 3 6 10 -4 0.75 1.25 1.12 9 14

Bolton............... 8 1 4 3 9 14 -5 1.12 1.75 0.87 7 17

Fulham.............. 8 2 1 5 8 13 -5 1.00 1.62 0.87 7 18

W.B.A...............8 1 2 5 5 11 -6 0.62 1.37 0.62 5 19

West Ham.........8 0 2 6 7 18 -11 0.87 2.25 0.25 2 20


Fulhams
Last 5 Away
5 0 1 4 4 11 -7 0.80 2.20 0.20 1 20
Boltons
Last 5 Away
5 1 0 4 6 12 -6 1.20 2.40 0.60 3 18

A) West Ham are in the RELEGATION zone.

B) West Ham are 4 points and a positive 4 on to their goal difference away from being out of the relegation zone.

There is one game left before West Ham start the second half of season 02/03.

C) The next game is at home v Bolton. A SIX POINTER

D) The league table

team................ (GD)....Points

S Birmingham....(- 4).....+8
S Fulham...........(- 1).....+7
S Sunderland.....(-14).....+2

R West Brom.....(-14).....0
R Bolton............(-13).....-1
R West Ham......(-17).....-2

E) Upcoming Key matches

Birmingham City v Charlton Athletic
Newcastle United v Fulham
West Bromwich Albion v Sunderland 6 POINTER
West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers 6 POINTER
West Ham United v Fulham 6 POINTER
Bolton Wanderers v Newcastle United
West Bromwich Albion v Arsenal
Birmingham City v Everton
Sunderland v Leeds United
Blackburn Rovers v West Ham United
Charlton Athletic v West Bromwich Albion
Everton v Bolton Wanderers
Fulham v Manchester City
Manchester United v Birmingham City
Southampton v Sunderland
_________________

F) Handicaping: Points awarded for difficulty of remaining fixtures: Highest points = hardest run-in.

GOOD:WEST HAM 240

GOOD:SUNDERLAND 250

OK:FULHAM 260

DANGER:WBA 265

DANGER:BIRMINGHAM 285

DANGER:BOLTON 300 (game in hand)
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Post by FDiMcA »

Birmingham City v Charlton Athletic: MASSIVE GAME C'MON CHARLTON.
Newcastle United v Fulham (No chance for Fulham)West Bromwich Albion v Sunderland 6 POINTER (Who cares)
West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers 6 POINTER (We all know about this)

West Ham United v Fulham 6 POINTER MASSIVE GAME
Bolton Wanderers v Newcastle United
West Bromwich Albion v Arsenal (No chance for Baggies)
Birmingham City v Everton (tough game)Sunderland v Leeds United (tough game)
Blackburn Rovers v West Ham United (Who cares)
Charlton Athletic v West Bromwich Albion
Everton v Bolton Wanderers (No chance for Bolton)

Fulham v Manchester City (MASSIVE GAME)
Manchester United v Birmingham City (No chance for Brum)Southampton v Sunderland (No chance for Mackems)
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Post by FDiMcA »

An excellent result as Birmingham failed to beat Charlton. Birmingham are just about to embark on a nightmare fixture list and it was vital the gap to them did not widen.

Also WBA v Sunderland as a draw was excellent, neither team increasing their lead over the Hammers in a massive 6 pointer. At one point WBA were 2 up and that could have stranded Bolton and West Ham mentally after Sunderland had beaten liverpool before.

Although it was disapointing that West Ham did not record their first home win in the last game of the first half of the season, the result which saw them move up one point on Fulham was OK. Not good but no disaster.

As expected it shifted the full-weight of the coming second-half of the season on to the home clash with Fulham. It appears today that both Kanoute (correctly preserved from the Bolton ding-dong) and Hutch will be in contention for a start. Hopefully the vital Edouard Cisse so good in the first game v Fulham will also be available.

Fulham were top of the table after week one and still 5th in week 8. In week 8 West Ham were bottom - so the gap in places has reduced by 6 places in 11 games.

Fulham had 15 points in week 8, West Ham had 5, a ten point defecit. 11 games later the gap has reduced by just 2 points. But a simple victory for the Hammers in the next game will claw back another 3. Leaving the Hammers just 5 points adrift with 18 games to play.

It is possible Al FAyed will step in at the transfer window - and West Ham will watch vulnerable Fulhams actions in the market possibly more closely than their own. In theory West Ham have DiCanio and Kanoute to come in, and the famous 'striker short' so effectivley West Hams potency could be increased 3 fold over the next few months.

While Fulham and West Ham lock swords, West Brom and Bolton face Arsenal and Newcastle, so a Hammers victory with a kind result such as Leeds beating Sunderland could see West Ham and Fulham seperated by just Sunderland and Villa. (even then Villa might be out of the way)

It could be a startlingy changed table after the match.
West Ham above West Brom and Bolton and Sunderland and Fulham nervous as hell just above.

Had West Ham beaten Bolton there would have been a massive positive momentum at UP having escaped the noose at the last minute, and with players to come back. That did not happen BUT having avoided defeat there is a new positive psychology and one traditionally associated with West Ham.
Being bottom for Xmas every one now knows West Ham are down, so any club bellow West Ham (THE DEAD MEN OF THE PREM) or even near them will be bricking itself. West Ham haveing effectivley already been reelgated in the publics mind can now play without fear - the sort of mind-set that often sees West Ham beat much stronger/bigger teams.

In some ways the pressure is off West Ham and all on the likes of Fulham and Sunderland. AND although I have yet to include them in this thread even Villa.
Roeders lovechild

Post by Roeders lovechild »

You are really clutching at straws there. Face it, we are relegated. Nothing in the way the team is playing suggests otherwise.
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Post by FDiMcA »

Results goingt well at half-time in the Blackburn game. West Ham steadying the perspective.
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Post by FDiMcA »

OK OK OK OK The Fulham result was terible. What was more terible was the performance and joke tactics. Joe for example playing wide (what a waste) untill, Ian Pearce was moved up front - at which point Joe was tucked in behind him (What) and the width of the team was gone (Clue: Big man up front = crosses). Anyhow v Blackburn and so far its 1-1 and Cisse is playing. Not our best player but he facilitates Joe amongst others.
Ohhh PEarce just wide

anyhow back to teh Fulham result - it was really was OK, 4 points off our relegation rivals for teh season is good. and The Bolton result a 4-3 freak win over Newcastle plus the boring 'bottom at Xmas = relegated' jinx has sapped everyones minds (As well as their hearts)
Villa are starting to slip, and Birmingham are loosing at Man U. Although Bolton pulled away from us the majority, the average, the bulk of teh teams in danger are nearer to West HAm than they were before the Fulham game, and a draw today or better would really open peoples eyes to the reality of West Hams situation.

Salvation is still at hand, a mere 3 points away.
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Post by Adam 'The Smudge' »

Frank, its been two weeks since you began this topic. Judging by its content will it continue through until May?
If it does, that cellar must be cosy and the smell of hotdogs blissful.
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Post by Guest »

Smudge - YES sir it will - it will bear witness that when its all turned around and the PRESS and stupid West Ham fans who dont understand what a mess our performances have been compared to say Evertons,

that when the world and his wife are saying Roeder performed a miracle and that no other manager could have save a team who had been bottom at Xmas, and that Roeder is a classy young manager - and som idiot goes on about Fegire being one game from the sack at Man U before it all started to go right.

This thread will prove that West Ham were never going to be relegated.
That the story of the season is not "Roeder saves Hammers from ceratin relegation"!, the story should be "how did Roeder get a team so good in to so much trouble?"
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Post by FDiMcA »

This was the table BEFORE we played Bolton.

S Birmingham....(- 4).....+8
S Fulham...........(- 1).....+7
S Sunderland.....(-14).....+2
R West Brom.....(-14).....0
R Bolton............(-13).....-1
R West Ham......(-17).....-2

This is the table after we played Fulham (In brackets are the current Staurday results with 15 mins to go)

S Birmingham +7 (currently LOOSING to Man U)
S Fulham +5 (currently level with Man City)
S Bolton 0 (drawing away to Everton)
R Sunderland 0 (loosing away to Soton)
R West Brom -2 (loosing to Charlton)
R West Ham -3 (currently loosing v Blackburn) (2 cock-ups by James)

Villa have been sucked in after a defeat to promoted Man City, if they fail to beat Boro today they will join this table of the damned.

This is the table if results stay as they are:

Birmingham +7(lost)
Fulham +6 (draw)
Bolton +1(draw)
Sunderland 0 (lost)
West Brom -2 (lost)
West Ham -3 (lost)

So although West Ham are 1 point further off safety the 3 teams above the drop zone are actually all nearer to it than they were 3 games ago.
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Post by FDiMcA »

) West Ham are in the RELEGATION zone.

B) West Ham are 3 points and a positive 5 on to their goal difference away from being out of the relegation zone.

C) The next game is away v Charlton.

D) The league table

team................ (GD)....Points

S Birmingham (-6) +7
S Fulham (-4) +5
S Bolton (-12) +1
R Sunderland (-16) 0
R West Brom (-16) -2
S West Ham (-17) -2

E) Upcoming Key matches

Manchester United v Sunderland (HA HA HA)
Aston Villa v Bolton Wanderers (hmm)
Charlton Athletic v West Ham United (Away = pressure off DERBY game)
Fulham v West Bromwich Albion MASSIVE 6 POINTER
Leeds United v Birmingham City (Cmoon El Tels in form)
________________

F) Handicaping: Points awarded for difficulty of remaining fixtures: Highest points = hardest run-in.

GOOD:WEST HAM 225

O.K:WBA 230

TRICKY:BIRMINGHAM 235

TRICKY:FULHAM 245

TRICKY:SUNDERLAND 245

DANGER:BOLTON 255 (game in hand)
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Post by Up the Junction »

Good stuff Franko, keep it up sir. Are Birmingham still considered to be in trouble? Guess the next few weeks will tell ...
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Post by Guest »

Brum were 8 points clear of the drop and had a GD of -4, they are now on -6GD and just 7 points clear.

Assuming they loose next to Leeds.

Fulham face WBA.

A Fulham win and Brum are bellow Fulham, psychologically staringdown/staggeringabove the clubs in trouble.

A WBA win (or West Ham win) and the gap to the drop zone will be just 6 points.

The only sceanrio that would suit Brum would be a draw between Fulham and WBA, but even then the gap is closing by 1 point to 2 teams bellow them.

Brum cant win

All that is assuming Brum loose away to Leeds of course, but that is pretty likely.

Brum are slipping and a sliding

AND ANM said Brum wouldnt get near the drop zone, so obviously tehy are in trouble.
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Post by Up the Junction »

Fair play. The problem is this - can we start to win games? It's ok being in the pack but that's eleven without a win now - and I can't see us winning at the Valley, for starters.
CR

-

Post by CR »

Gaining points away would be fine if we were picking up all three most of the time at home but we are not. Either we need to start winning at home asp or winning away 1 point is not enough.
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Post by Amsterhammer »

Exactly! Great, we're "unbeaten" in three now :? : We would all have expected and settled for two home wins and a loss today, which would have given us 3 more points. Being on 19 rather than 16 the table looks a lot different :shock: The real sickener has been that despite the magnitude of what was at stake, they were unable to raise their game sufficiently to win even one of those two home fixtures (Bolton/Fulham) and looked piss-poor to boot.

And that is what makes me believe, alas, that we're f@cked :evil: :evil:



:seeth: :seeth: :seeth: help me out, share the anger.....
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Post by FDiMcA »

And just a few games further down the track...............

West Hams last 3 results are a draw, a win, and a postponment.

The win being in teh FA cup over 3 fixtures West HAm are just 1 poin t better off.

But having pulled off the signing of teh century, and seen their rivals flounder and registred a valuable home win and gained a 'psychological' game in hand, and got the pressure off via the psychological pressure relief of nothing to loose - bottom at Xmas. West Ham are in a better position!!!

Teh atmosphere on here is alarmingly positive compared to what it was just before we played Fulham and yet we are just 1 point better off.

Proof if ever it was needede that teh underlying theme of this thread Salvation is just a hairs breadth away

The other theme has been astoniishingly enhanced.

That Roeder is bugger all to do with us surviving.

So here we go Tel drops Bowyer post non-re-signing, and post stamping on heeeead
Ridsdale shows Bowyer teh door.
Only relegation teams Brum and Sunderland GENUI*NLEY try and sign him.
Bowyer is a London lad and a Wset Ham fan
Tottenham had a discussion on him the day before he stamped on that head and decided he was too risky then he did the stamp.
Brown piss scared of relegation does another Hartson Kitson trip to the piggy bank, and Joe and Jermnaine with Senrip and England connections do teh rest.

It is fair to say we have signed Bowyer DESPITE Roeder.

And when we stay up it will be despite..............

DO NOT FORGET
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Post by FDiMcA »

im still fuming that Roeder threw away 2 points at homt to Newcastle : Made a DOUBLE sub, taking off the DEFENDING MIDFIELDER, while our opponents HAD A THROW IN OUR HALF, while we were winning, and neither sub went to the VACATED POSITION (cisees) but the ball did. School boy error that really should have been made more off all round.

Still we face Arsenal away arguably a so-wht if you loose game - which is exactly the sort of thing that suits the HAmmers.

Un-surprisingly Defoe has looked even better (if thats possible) now that we have stopped playing the long ball (i.e Lomas iout of midfield) - so we have some hope - and Joe and LEe clearly are up for the fight.

Villa are wavering, and I would love to throw them in to my relegation pot - but........Fulham today play Boror if Fulham win Brum will suddenly be in trouble on everyones book, if Fulham loose thats bloody good too.

Good luck to Bolton I hope they survive (just behind us) having drawn with us in the bottom at Xmas battle they are showing escape is not too imposible.

WBA are surley now doen - so instead of wondering how many games West Ham need to win people should focus on the factr we only have to get above 2 more clubs and have plenty of games to do so. AND ONE OF THOSE CLUBS IS SUNDERLAND>


West Hams goal difference is looking a lot more normal and less of a handicap - today it is important to preserve that - it has improved relative to our rivals massivley and points the way to safety.

S Birmingham City (-12) +5
S Fulham (-4) +3
S Bolton Wanderers (-14) 0
S Sunderland (-18) -2
S West Ham United (-17) -4
S West Bromwich Albion (-18) -4
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