Man Utd 3 West Ham Utd 0 (23/02/10)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Marky on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:39 am

Come on Fionn, Noble is a terrible player. I can say this as I have always thought it. He cannot do anything. He cant pass over 5 yards, he does not tackle, he doesnt make box to box runs.
He supports West Ham whoop di doo.

He should play at his level which is a decent Championship player a la Chris Cohen.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Hambrosia Stu on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:45 am

Tel The Hammer wrote:It doesn't surprise me that we've failed to beat a top four side under Zola, that's for sure.
Yea Why Not wrote:True. Like him or hate him, Curbs was good against the big boys

It does seem a flaw in Zola's thinking, that he doesn't feel the need for pragmatism when it comes to games like last nights

I'm all for playing attacking, slick football when the circumstances allow, but when away to the champions, surely it's a game where you do all you can to frustrate and keep the game tight. Starting with 2 up top, as well as the less than defensively wonderful Diamanti on the flank is playing right into their hands. Allowing Spector to be so repeatedly exposed just sums up why we won't get much off the "big boys" with tactics like last night

The reason Curbs had a decent record against the top teams was that he had the pragmatism needed to put out a team that will battle, frustrate, keep it tight and look to nick a goal. It's not going to be pretty, but will be far more effective than turning up at the home of the champions and attempting to play them at their own game. Some might feel Curbs had too much pragmatism, but against teams that are better than us, it's the only way we can compete. Pardew's wins against Arsenal are another case in point. They came about not from slick passing, or wonderfully creative moves, but from playing it tight, getting in their faces, and being set up to defend for long periods

I'm not saying I want us to play like that in every game, not at all. But horses for courses and all that......
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Dyl on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:47 am

Marky wrote:Come on Fionn, Noble is a terrible player. I can say this as I have always thought it. He cannot do anything. He cant pass over 5 yards, he does not tackle, he doesnt make box to box runs.
He supports West Ham whoop di doo.

He should play at his level which is a decent Championship player a la Chris Cohen.


I'm afraid to say i'm starting to think this more and more. Love Noble, but he's not good enough.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby rottiel on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:51 am

wolf359 wrote:My mates at work (Man U season ticket holders) thought we put up a good fight and were worried at half-time. They could see a 1-1 on the cards. Thought Cole was fantastic (best forward to visit OT this season!) and would love Fergi to sign him up. Perfect for Rooney -said we could have Berbatov as part of the deal (they are not fans!)


How bizarre, thought Cole offered nothing last night, worst i've seen him play.
But as they say, it is a game of opinions..
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Fionn on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:54 am

Marky wrote:Come on Fionn, Noble is a terrible player. I can say this as I have always thought it. He cannot do anything. He cant pass over 5 yards, he does not tackle, he doesnt make box to box runs.
He supports West Ham whoop di doo.

He should play at his level which is a decent Championship player a la Chris Cohen.


I wasn't defending him as a player. I called Big Russ a twat because he was celebrating the fact Noble got injured. Which is extremely twatish in my book. Maybe others disagree.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby stubbsy07 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:03 pm

All to easy for Man United.

We didn't set up to be hard to beat. We didn't set up to get at them and TRY to take the game to them.

If you don't do either of those it results in a very comfortable win for a team of Man United's calibre. (Which I still believe isn't as good as previous years).

Zola's record against the top 4 is awful and it's because of the reasons above.

Would rather us lose 5-2 and actually give them a scare.

I would love other teams to say, '**** me, we beat West Ham today but they gave it a real go. Credit to them'
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Marky on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:15 pm

Of course your right, Fionn.
He doesnt deserve that he is just not good enough and never will be but its not for want of trying.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby davids cross on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:19 pm

stubbsy07 wrote:Would rather us lose 5-2 and actually give them a scare.


I understand the frustration of your post and partially agree with it. Problem is to go away to places like Old Trafford you have to have some pace somewhere in your team to hurt them. We have one of the slowest teams I can ever remember. So if all parts of the passing game aren't working we can't just fall back on a player whizzing past someone. I've banged on about it for ages with many others, you need the odd quick player nowadays it is so important.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Bobby Orangeboom on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:22 pm

Fionn Kiely wrote:
I wasn't defending him as a player. I called Big Russ a twat because he was celebrating the fact Noble got injured. Which is extremely twatish in my book. Maybe others disagree.


Anyway who does disagree is even Twattier than Russ in my book, & that takes some beating... :thdn:
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Morocco Mole on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:24 pm

Went to the champions at their gaff and left our best player at home. No wonder the rest didn't bother to show up...
Any one else sick of the Rooney love-fest? Even Galey was at it last night. Nauseating....
Last edited by Morocco Mole on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Albie Beck on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:26 pm

Got back just before 4 this morning, and had to be out again before 8, so not had a chance to look at the comments etc before.

Firstly, I think the difference, or most of it, was Rooney. Truly class performance. He has scored his last four goals with headers, and I think it's a new dimension to his game. Consequently, those digging out our defence, and especially Tomkins, are being a bit unfair, he had a good game overall, and Rooney's movement for his goals (and against Milan) was superb. Many better defenders will be caught out too. I thought Upson played as if he was distracted at times, which didn't help. Kovac was the pick of the rest.

Leaving Parker out was the right call, but how we missed him...

That said, up to the first goal we were in the game, and whilst not looking comfortable, we certainly contended. After the break we just weren't in it. They should have scored straight after the restart and we went into shock.

Still, our support easily outsung theirs and they only made a noise after the third. "Green Arrrrmyyy"! :lol:
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:29 pm

davids cross wrote:.... you have to have some pace somewhere in your team to hurt them. We have one of the slowest teams I can ever remember.....


True.

When I saw our line up last night I expected a worse result and performance.

Missed Parker's energy, and we never once played a decent ball in behind for Cole - the only one of yesterday's front 6 with something resembling a turn of speed - to run onto.

The flaws in our squad remain apparent - but we're a lot better set/structured than we were 6 weeks ago.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Albie Beck on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:46 pm

davids cross wrote:Problem is to go away to places like Old Trafford you have to have some pace somewhere in your team to hurt them. We have one of the slowest teams I can ever remember. So if all parts of the passing game aren't working we can't just fall back on a player whizzing past someone. I've banged on about it for ages with many others, you need the odd quick player nowadays it is so important.

Spot on, dc - that is why imo neither Noble nor Collison will make it to the very top. They just don't have the pace necessary at this level. Sadly...
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby smuts on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:37 pm

I agree about a lot of the comments about pace....it's the slowest West Ham team ever.

It wasn't long ago that we had the likes of Etherington, Bellamy etc and could hit teams on the break........now we just sort of meander up the field at a slow trot.................
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby ukchrish on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:51 pm

I thought we had some decent spells last night although a few didn't turn up imo. I thought Upson had a very poor game by his standards and Green made some very odd decisions at times. Spector looked well out of his depth and Franco doesn't look fit to me.

Negatives aside I thought Faubert had another decent game and our attacking play felt sharper to me in the second half. Agree with the comments re Kovac. I thought he was excellent last night.

Rooney was the clear difference between the two sides though. He seems to get better every week and without him we may well have got something last night. 3-1 would have been a fairer scoreline imo.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Albie Beck on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:57 pm

smuts wrote: now we just sort of meander up the field at a slow trot.................

...and half the time we meander back again to Tomkins, Upson and Green!

I was screaming last night (not for the first time this season) for someone to look up and play the angled ball. Too often when someone does deign to make a run it isn't seen, because we're looking for the next 10-yard sideways pass. Headbanger
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby davids cross on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:14 pm

Albie Beck wrote:Spot on, dc - that is why imo neither Noble nor Collison will make it to the very top. They just don't have the pace necessary at this level. Sadly...


I've nailed my colours to the Collison will be better than Pele theory Unk Alb. I'm sure in time I will be proved right, just need a little patience. :D

I think Collison has a big rangy stride and a decent engine, he's probably quicker than Lampard. I don't think pace is a prerequisite for a top central midfielder. It's about getting some balance around them. Wingers maybe.... :wink:
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:28 pm

Marky wrote:Of course your right, Fionn.
He doesnt deserve that he is just not good enough and never will be but its not for want of trying.


Marky, I wish that was the case!

It seems to me, the geezer drifts in and out of effort.

One minute he's chasing back, putting in a strong challenge and working his nuts off to chase a ball down.
The next minute, you see him strolling about, like a Giraffe in treacle, sticking out a flimsy leg to stop a player. (I saw that 3 times last night - pathetic attempts to stop the opposing player with the ball) and ****ing out lax, half hearted slow passes, which slow down play.

He should be playing as a holding midfielder, sitting just in front of the back four, with a couple of players protecting him - I'll never be convinced otherwise.
Until then, he's just not good enough and gets on my ****ing tits.
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby MS in the West on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:29 pm

Faubert's fast. And if Dyer actually becomes fit he is too.

But there's a reason we don't have such players - Zola doesn't want them/they don't fit his style of play. They are best when used as counter attackers often with long sweeping balls to complement their fast runs.

Zola seems to like short passing and possession even when it doesn't lead anywhere. Meandering upfield seems about right

You have to have some special players in a side when you want to pass your way through them on a consistent basis a la Barcelona and Arsenal. And if you don't it's never gonna work against the likes of ManYoo
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Re: Man Utd v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Chuck D on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:59 pm

Tel The Hammer wrote:Furry muff

But, what happens if Bolton turn us over? We then have Chelsea and Arsenal away, and with Zola's low expectations/requirements/lack of belief in games like them two, I can't see us getting much from either The Bridge or The Emirates, which could leave us bang in the sh*t yet again.

After out two wins against two very poor sides on the day (Hull & Brum), the wrong vibe seems to be coming from Zola, that all the home games against other relegation fodder are home bankers, and tricky fixtures aren't worth turning up for.

As I said a few posts back, every game is winnable, and after seeing our performance tonight, in my opinion, you could see Zola's low expectations had crept through to the players. I agree with Parker being left out, but for Cole, Franco, Diamanti and Noble to all look as half arsed as they did, clearly the wrong attitude was coming from the coaching staff.


If Bolton turn us over, it makes the nonsense posted on here about "dont worry, we have to play lesser teams at home, so dont worry that we threw away points" even more stupid.

I dont think "half arsed" is how I would compare them. Noble, and Diamanti ARE pedestrian, no matter how good they might be on the ball, and Cole and Franco are recently back from injury. I witnessed Cole chasing balls down that he had no right to be running after, so I reckon you are being a bit harsh, innit.
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