Upton Park Bus Garage

All you need to know about West Ham United FC's potential move to Stratford.

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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby mywhufc on Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:14 pm

Hammer110 wrote:The fact is the last application to redevelop the East stand was withdrawn when it was on the verge of being approved, it appears there were no planning issues otherwise it wouldn't have been recommended for approval by both the LA and Mayors Office. The cost of meeting the local transport infrastructure costs were put at a £1 million, so did they just change their mind or did it turn out to be not cost effective?

The extra 5000 seats if all sold @ £45 (highly unlikely) would bring in £225,000 x that by 19 games it would bring in just over 4 million whiteout cup games, if it cost 20 mill pay 2 mill per year payed off in 10 less interest. The owners could pay for it take back the money even with a bit of intrest.
Won't happen though
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby Romford on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:58 am

Im a B@stard ain't i :twisted:
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby The Old Mile End on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:15 am

Romford wrote:Im a B@stard ain't i :twisted:



Most definitely! Especially considering you were arguing about how it wasn't possible to connect a new stand to the existing ones!

Unless there are other plans for the bus garage, it might stay closed for some time. Long enough maybe for the spuds to lay the first brick and for us to stall for time at the OS. Then, when there is no chance of them going to Stratford, we can call it off and leave it to the O's and redevelop the Boleyn.

No bus garage could mean no Priory Road - which could also mean turning the stadium 90 degrees to build a 50k stadium.

50k stadium....now there's a thought.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby AJ on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:03 am

Re the lack of light for the flats behind a new east stand, you could just build the roof transparent :think:
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby EvilC on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:33 am

The Rebirth wrote:Evil C can I ask why?


Because I simply don't think it is that clear cut. Spurs are moving in nearby, but most of our support is from Essex anyway. There are already other clubs that do better than us in London. We still have a bigger following than a lot of top flight sides and have the draw of being in London. I think it's somewhat hysterical to suggest that Spurs moving in down the road will be, without a doubt, a shove down the road of being the next Charlton.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby gavrosh on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:34 pm

Ive seen kids in Dagenham wearing Chelsea shirts. That would have been unheard of a few years ago. If Spurs were to move into the vicinity, and as a result get the extra financial clout to become a club that challenges for the title, then it would without doubt lead over time to a hollowing out of West Ham's support, from the grassroots up. Our club would wither on the vine.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby mywhufc on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:35 pm

gavrosh wrote:Ive seen kids in Dagenham wearing Chelsea shirts. That would have been unheard of a few years ago. If Spurs were to move into the vicinity, and as a result get the extra financial clout to become a club that challenges for the title, then it would without doubt lead over time to a hollowing out of West Ham's support, from the grassroots up. Our club would wither on the vine.

No disrespect but it's always been the case that west ham never had complete control of east london and south west Essex.
Growing up in canning town in the 70,s half the school didn't support west ham. Moved to barking in mid 80,s I was in the minority of west ham fans. Quite a fair few spurs, with arse mancs and Liverpool thrown in. With the migration out of the east end our support has been thrown in the wind. Spurs in Stratford is no different to spurs in tottenham. If west ham have a successful team fans will come. If spurs are successful they will garnish support. Fans don't support a team because they have a nice stadium their kit looks pretty or it's easy to get there by train.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby The Rebirth on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:50 pm

mywhufc wrote:No disrespect but it's always been the case that west ham never had complete control of east london and south west Essex.
Growing up in canning town in the 70,s half the school didn't support west ham. Moved to barking in mid 80,s I was in the minority of west ham fans. Quite a fair few spurs, with arse mancs and Liverpool thrown in. With the migration out of the east end our support has been thrown in the wind. Spurs in Stratford is no different to spurs in tottenham. If west ham have a successful team fans will come. If spurs are successful they will garnish support. Fans don't support a team because they have a nice stadium their kit looks pretty or it's easy to get there by train.


So hampering our ability whilst increasing another teams (if Spurs go to Stratford) how could we become successful?

The fans will not come if success is the basis for them. When in the last 30 years have we been particularly successful? Twobob Cup doesn't count.

Parts in red... Spurs in Stratford opens them up to a much bigger area Essex/Kent it would eventually cripple us.

And people don't support teams because their kit looks pretty? there are posters on here who complain because their kids want Chelsea shirts etc which then causes them to take interest and start following that team all the while forgetting about little West Ham they'd rather see big players in nicely made and sponsored kits and the biggest players.


My family are all West Ham my cousin when he was a kid liked the Man United shirt so he got one and now he's a red.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby mywhufc on Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:51 pm

Let me put it this way, spurs in tottenham with their re developed stadium is no different to them in stratford, same stadium, still will hold 60,000. Don't matter where we are unless we have a more successful team than them they will still attract the fans.
If we move to stratford, and heavily discount tickets, were no better off. Add to the fact those that drive at the moment won't be able to at Stratford as there is no parking and what there is wont be free, will have to go by train to every game adding more money onto that ticket. 4 season ticket holders travel in 1 motor paying 1 price unlike by train were all 4 will pay,
Totts will build their new stadium,in tottenham, once that happens us the Olympic stad will look like poor cousins, better to re do the east and offer something different.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby eastsider on Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:58 pm

[quote="The Rebirth"][quote="mywhufc"]No disrespect but it's always been the case that west ham never had complete control of east london and south west Essex.
Growing up in canning town in the 70,s half the school didn't support west ham. Moved to barking in mid 80,s I was in the minority of west ham fans. Quite a fair few spurs, with arse mancs and Liverpool thrown in. With the migration out of the east end our support has been thrown in the wind. Spurs in Stratford is no different to spurs in tottenham. If west ham have a successful team fans will come. If spurs are successful they will garnish support. Fans don't support a team because they have a nice stadium their kit looks pretty or it's easy to get there by train.

So hampering our ability whilst increasing another teams (if Spurs go to Stratford) how could we become successful?

The fans will not come if success is the basis for them. When in the last 30 years have we been particularly successful? Twobob Cup doesn't count.

Parts in red... Spurs in Stratford opens them up to a much bigger area Essex/Kent it would eventually cripple us.

And people don't support teams because their kit looks pretty? there are posters on here who complain because their kids want Chelsea shirts etc which then causes them to take interest and start following that team all the while forgetting about little West Ham they'd rather see big players in nicely made and sponsored kits and the biggest players.


My family are all West Ham my cousin when he was a kid liked the Man United shirt so he got one and now he's a red.

100% CORRECT
Obvious that Spuds in Newham would have a negative effect on us over the coming decades
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby WHURS on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:02 pm

"Add to the fact those that drive at the moment won't be able to at Stratford as there is no parking and what there is wont be free, will have to go by train to every game adding more money onto that ticket. 4 season ticket holders travel in 1 motor paying 1 price unlike by train were all 4 will pay,"

Parking wil be a nightmare for either stadium by the time were due to move, with all the new parking restrictions that are being implemented, thats without your plan to up the stadium by 5K,

I would say though that for every person who currently drives or is incovienenced with the move, there will be 100's more who's travel will be covered by the ticket they use for their weekly commute.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby gavrosh on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:15 pm

Also worth noting that for your average fan from Essex or Kent, using the A12 and parking somewhere North or West or East of the OS - Homerton, for example, or Bow, or Forest Gate - should be somewhat easier than getting to the outskirts of UP as it only has the Barking Road or Romford Road to get to it, and both get packed at the best of times. Also, Westfield have a bigger car park in Stratford than they do in Shepherds Bush, and the one in Shepherds Bush is apparently rarely if ever full.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby Romford on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:00 pm

mywhufc wrote:Let me put it this way, spurs in tottenham with their re developed stadium is no different to them in stratford, same stadium, still will hold 60,000. Don't matter where we are unless we have a more successful team than them they will still attract the fans.
If we move to stratford, and heavily discount tickets, were no better off. Add to the fact those that drive at the moment won't be able to at Stratford as there is no parking and what there is wont be free, will have to go by train to every game adding more money onto that ticket. 4 season ticket holders travel in 1 motor paying 1 price unlike by train were all 4 will pay,
Totts will build their new stadium,in tottenham, once that happens us the Olympic stad will look like poor cousins, better to re do the east and offer something different.


Its very different

One of the only things we do have going for us is our traditions as an East London club. Football is more about traditions and families than success.

As for the rest...you ever tried getting to Tottenham ?

Lets be honest...you just don't want to go and you will come out with anything to make BG look the best option (which its never going to be)
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby Romford on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:02 pm

The Old Mile End wrote:

Most definitely! Especially considering you were arguing about how it wasn't possible to connect a new stand to the existing ones!

Unless there are other plans for the bus garage, it might stay closed for some time. Long enough maybe for the spuds to lay the first brick and for us to stall for time at the OS. Then, when there is no chance of them going to Stratford, we can call it off and leave it to the O's and redevelop the Boleyn.

No bus garage could mean no Priory Road - which could also mean turning the stadium 90 degrees to build a 50k stadium.

50k stadium....now there's a thought.


How much will it cost to change the roads and station to handle 50k fans
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby Romford on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:06 pm

mywhufc wrote:Let me put it this way, spurs in tottenham with their re developed stadium is no different to them in stratford, same stadium, still will hold 60,000. Don't matter where we are unless we have a more successful team than them they will still attract the fans.
If we move to stratford, and heavily discount tickets, were no better off. Add to the fact those that drive at the moment won't be able to at Stratford as there is no parking and what there is wont be free, will have to go by train to every game adding more money onto that ticket. 4 season ticket holders travel in 1 motor paying 1 price unlike by train were all 4 will pay,
Totts will build their new stadium,in tottenham, once that happens us the Olympic stad will look like poor cousins, better to re do the east and offer something different.


I wonder how many people who travel by car to games now have a train season ticket which they can use to get to Stratford for free ??

I wonder how many cars going to games are full with 4 persons ??

How can you make out we are no better off with being a Stratford when it comes to logistics is laughable to be honest mate.

One thing it will do is save the fans money...
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby mywhufc on Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:46 pm

Romford wrote:I wonder how many people who travel by car to games now have a train season ticket which they can use to get to Stratford for free ??

then they could get to UP for free as well,
Romford wrote:I wonder how many cars going to games are full with 4 persons ??
it was used as an example

Romford wrote:How can you make out we are no better off with being a Stratford when it comes to logistics is laughable to be honest mate.

One thing it will do is save the fans money...

when I said no better off that wasn't on the logistics, it was my opinion of us in Stratford v spurs in totts in their new stadium.
The problem is no one knows the answers,people will be better off in Stratford but the same will be out of pocket,maybe?
At the Sab meeting they asked fans would they be prepared to walk from west ham along the greenway, or cycle.
The way from Stratford to the stadium app goes throng Westfield, yet this sat, and I know it was the first sat, the police closed the centre as too many people were there, imagine it the sat before Xmas with us at home, tight squeeze it will be.
I realise my stance puts people backs up, but those they think we go to Stratford and years later well be a top side looking at the champions league are as deluded as I am in believing that we will stay at the Boleyn.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby Romford on Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Well i can say for a fact...it will be cheaper, easier, quicker and better for the enviroment for my goodself to get the OS.

You cannot moan about its transport links.

As for Season Tickets of the railways...i should imagine far more have tickets for the National Express than the C2C/Tube.
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby The Old Mile End on Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:05 am

Romford wrote:How much will it cost to change the roads and station to handle 50k fans


Fair point.

Not the answer, but it will be less than it will cost the spuds to develop the environs of WHL to take 60k.

I've listed some ideas on this before, but developing both East Ham & Upton Park stations, having a scheme to shuttle people from Stratford to Upton Park and back, utilising the match day ticket so that it covers London Transport fares, using local school playgrounds and parks for paid parking, laying on coaches to pick up fans from the major Essex & Kent towns etc......obviously has a cost.

The bus garage closing has made it a lot cheaper than it originally was.

A 50k capacity ground that attracts over 40k every game will cover that lot.

For me, I'd have to see it be done and fail, before I'd ever consider a move. :crest:
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby The Rebirth on Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:29 am

In Germany some of the teams include coach travel in the ticket.

So for a day trip to watch the team they pay 14 EURO get a coach to the game and a match ticket.

With our new transport links we should work with the rail companies to get people into the ground.

In fact Ian Tompkins was in talks with one of them but I didn't hear the outcome!
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Re: Upton Park Bus Garage

Postby hadleighhammer on Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:18 pm

Romford wrote:How can you make out we are no better off with being a Stratford when it comes to logistics is laughable to be honest mate.


Even I agree with this.

Still would prefer the BG redeveloped. Ain't going to happen though. If people are honest, the corporate £ will prefer the OS and that is what matters ultimately to G&S&B. Whether the current matchday going supporter prefers it, is willing to put up with the track, the rake, etc is of little relevance.
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