|All you need to know about West Ham United FC's potential move to Stratford.
Thanks to Rebirth for the idea....
I have created a survey which should make interesting reading once results are in.....
http://www.esurveyspro.com/Survey.aspx? ... e1478fcc6b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by MD_HM on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Right I was waiting for enough responses before posting initial results but here goes...
So far 152 people have completed the survey, out of which...
67% were season ticket holders (102), 20% attend 1-5 games (31), 6% attend 11+ games (10)
42% were aged between 26-35, 26% aged between 36-45, 13% aged 19-25
22% cant attend more games due to cost, 10% Work Commitments, 8% Location
48% live in Essex, 17% East London, 5% Kent
On to the Stadium questions....
In general, are you FOR or AGAINST the move to the Olympic Stadium?
FOR - 58% (88)
AGAINST - 33% (50)
UNSURE - 9% (14)
What is your one biggest concern about the potential move to the Olympic Stadium?
32% (48) Distance from the pitch
32% (48) Lack of West Ham branding
22% (33) Running Track
Would you move to the Olympic Stadium if….
It stayed exactly as it is now?
NO - 86% (131)
YES - 14% (21)
It had the same seating arrangement but was fully branded West Ham, new roof and new facilities added?
YES - 57% (87)
NO - 43% (65)
It had new seating arrangement but was left exactly as it is now?
NO - 76% (116)
YES - 24% (36)
It had new seating arrangement and was fully branded West Ham, new roof and new facilities added?
YES - 75% (114)
NO - 25% (38)
It had the same seating arrangement but was fully branded West Ham, new roof and new facilities added – however after 2017 the running track was removed and a new seating arrangement was put in place?
YES - 77% (117)
NO - 23% (35)
Despite your opinions on the Olympic Stadium, if the move happens will you still attend West Ham home games?
YES - 78% (118)
NO - 22% (34)
So thats the initial results of 152 responses including over 100 season ticket holders...
So, extrapolate that to our current average attendence of 29,000 and that means gates would be down to 22,620 , so the "gap" of new fans to be attracted is 37,380 .
A 22% walk away imo is a massive churn .Absoultely massive .
Its a brilliant survey, however, West Ham isn't a democracy.
Gold & Sullivan couldn't give a damn about what anyone thinks, they're only concern is making money.
Thats 1 in 4 gone before we get there how many will we then lose after the first few games or even the first season. This could easily rise to 40%. That is actually quite scary!
Or those two in ten that say they won't go may see the transformation to the stadium and change their mind...
Depends what spin you want to put on the stats really, it works both ways.
I think the issue is we haven't been shown the plans, if they come out tomorrow with a design that had retractable/interchanging seating and claret and blue seats then I think the mood and opinion would considerably change towards the move, on the same basis if they come out and say we can't afford to change the seating or colour of the seats then it would go the other way.
It's the fear of the unknown and thinking the worse that's the issue.
Hopefully if we win the bid then these plans will be released soon.
Same old doom and gloom......
But many others will go because of the fantastic transport links to all our fan base out in Essex etc
Note the majority so far are for the move and it only seems to be this site where there is a very vocal minority others sites barely have a single poster against the move.....
I supose all statistics can be cherry picked to prove ones own point of view.....
Or a very possible result of the move.
Sound like some real core support who will follow us through thin and thin.
Which sites are these? WHUFC.com?
As you have just done above, conveniently ignoring 86% against if it's not changed, which it won't be if we're just tenants who rent.
Sorry to nit pick but one other key question would be about the length of lease and being only tenants and selling our ground and how this would affect peoples decision about wanting to move to OS!
No not WHUFC.COM I am talking about other West Ham Forums....
I was, in my statement about statistics making exactly the point that any survey can be seen in whatever light one chooses, I include myself in that.....
Still 100% for the move myself.....
conveniently ignoring 86% against if it's not changed, which it won't be if we're just tenants who rent.
Man City Rent in exactly the same way as we would and they have naming rights and have club branding in the stadium!!
Also the point I made about transport links to Essex..... 48% of the people replying in the survey so far live in Essex!!
But really how relevant are they, do we really thing the Daves are going to sign up to a 5 year lease with no security of tenancy, wont be such as easy sell for them if as many think they will sell up once we are on on those terms.
And how important is owning your own premises, not very to many high street names who rent/lease there premises, doesn't give any of my clients a problem, virtually all purpose built industrial estates will be rented rather than sold, its the norm and not an problem to businesses and one advantage is it stops frivolous borrowing, if you have no building as security you have to give personal securities.
So you've never been on WHO then? Or looked at WHU fans opinions on twitter?
It's very important to many fans, knowing that you are moving from somewhere that is your home to a premises that you could be asked to leave on 5 years notice or even less. And this issue was raised by many when it was first announced.
In the whole most business's or even home owners would prefer to be a freeholder than a lease holder or at least hold a long lease, this is a fact. You have more power and can decide what monies are spent and there are many more benefits. In addition you have more long term security, which is a key for many companies, and most definately this is the case for a football club.
You give an example about industrial units let on a short lease however those type of occupiers prefer the flexibility of not being tied down and being able to leave with the required notice, but how can you possibly compare this to a football club when most stay at their ground for decades if not 100's of years!
To give you an example, I currently rent my business premises on a 10 year lease with now 4 years remaining. i've known from day one that I could be leaving after 10 years and so I spent heavily on kitting out the office in the first year but the business has now grown and I now need to upgrade not only the office but also invest in taking the business further, however knowing that I may need to look for a new location in a few years is seriously affecting the long term and short term decisions that I now make as i'm hesitant to invest money in a premises that I may not be in in 4 years time.
My point is that being a lease holder on a short lease can seriously restict your decisions as a business. As an example let's say we do move to the OS but we then realise in 5 years that we need to build more corporate hospitality due to the high demand, but we can't build anymore as the stadium is not ours or owned on a long lease or also why would be invest the money to build if we don't know if we will still be at the stadium 5 years on?
The length of lease can not be taken out of the equation as we may find that in future years our current or future owners will be extremely restricted and so the length of lease could definately hold our club back!
Paul so all those big businesses that rent accommodation in Canary wharf have got it wrong, all those retail outlets that rent shops in big shopping centres have got it wrong, my clients have got it wrong, in fact I would say a good proportion of big businesses rent/lease their business premises (with the exception of purpose buitl manufacturing plants but even they are sometimes custom build and lease). Renting is more flexible, it brings less responsibility for the maintenance (exterior in the main), it means your costs are fairly fixed, and you don't have capital tied up which may or may not be earning anything. Don't forget the family is in the business of renting out business accommodation so we do know a little about the market.
And the fact is the Daves are not going to risk the value of their main asset on which you and others think they just want to turn a profit on by making it potentially homeless in 5 years.
If you had a question then it should be something like "Would you support the move if the lease is less than x years?" I wouldn't cloud it with ownership issues which doesn't need to affect the running of the club nor footballing matters.
H110 I say again how can you possibly compare a lease agreement of a football club compared to retail units, industrial units and Credit suisse in Canary Wharf. For a business they want the ability to move and to not be tied down but in general a football club stays put on average for what 70/80 years, I can understand your point but really it's not comparable!
Also when renting a retail unit you have the benefit of having a lease that's within the 1954 act, so you have the instant right to renew, I doubt very much taht this will be given for the OS. Also how about all the restricitve covenants that will no doubt be put in place by the OPLC, that would not be in place if it were our own ground.
What the daves do at this stage is all guess work and in all honesty I don't know what type of lease they want but what I do know is that it is abundantly clear that they are going to do whatever it takes and bend over at every turn to get us in that stadium, WEST HAM OLYMPIC remember!!
Thing about the first question is that it is posed in the present tense.
Sounds pedantic, but nobody could have gone yet to 11+ home games.
Nice work MD_HM. Thanks.
A shame the board havent conducted a similar survey. No doubt that if the results of this poll are favourable to the move, then all of a sudden G&S will be 'listening to what the fans have to say.'
This is why , regardless of the good efforts of fans on this excellent site, and on other West Ham forums , I would take all surveys with a pinch of salt .
For example , there is a huge difference between the positives on Md_MM's poll , and the poll being conducted by The Rebirth .
Why is that ?
The only poll I would trust as being representative would be one conducted amongst the people that go to games currently - organised by the club independently audited .
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