Protest Meeting Arranged

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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby the pink palermo on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:43 am

MD_HM wrote:I would have thought that both Gold & Sullivan have been inside the stadium unless you know different?
I am of the "opinion" the track will end up being removed,
I do think the photos are misleading though.


I'm not convinced they have been inside it - I'm sure we would have seen a photo had they been so .

I would hope the track would be removed, but I wouldn't stake such an important decision on a hope , for what it is worth, I believe we will end up in a groundshare with Spurs or QPR , in a purpose built football stadium .

I don't think the photo's are misleading at all .The aerial shots show it for what it is - a circular bowl , without a good seat anywhere - there are a few "less bad" spots, but nowhere will have a good view .
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby paulhs1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:01 am

the pink palermo wrote:I would hope the track would be removed, but I wouldn't stake such an important decision on a hope , for what it is worth, I believe we will end up in a groundshare with Spurs or QPR , in a purpose built football stadium .

Can I ask what leads you to that conclusion TPP?
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby MD_HM on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:22 am

the pink palermo wrote:
I'm not convinced they have been inside it - I'm sure we would have seen a photo had they been so .

I would hope the track would be removed, but I wouldn't stake such an important decision on a hope , for what it is worth, I believe we will end up in a groundshare with Spurs or QPR , in a purpose built football stadium .

I don't think the photo's are misleading at all .The aerial shots show it for what it is - a circular bowl , without a good seat anywhere - there are a few "less bad" spots, but nowhere will have a good view .


We also dont know whats going to be done if anything in terms of seats, you were at the FF so heard Gold say they were looking at options... thats been my main point, we havent seen the plans to really vote yes or no - I am not even that "pro" the move, but if the circumstances are right then I would be...

Anyway, i am sure many of you will like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkDjAIP6BvA&sns=em
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby the pink palermo on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:32 am

Money talks .

Sooner or later somebody will wake up to the fact the country is skint - and will be for years ahead .In that climate all sorts of unimaginable deals could get done .

Consider the following :

Assume Qatar are awarded the 2017 Athletic World Championships - it would mean precious few major athletics events at Stratford for years .The venue would be used for 1 Grand Prix meeting a year , the rest kids and grannies .

When Spurs realise the above scenario , I would expect them to launch an offer to buy the OS, abandon the track, bulldoze the stadium , and buld a football ground in it's place .Once the Spurs argument is seen to have merit ,our owners will be forced to adopt the same approach - but Spurs will bid more , forcing us into seeking a groundshare .Spurs halve the cost of building a new ground - less than half actually , we pay more than we originally wanted to , but get a football ground........


Remove all the emotion, all the tribal loyalties and the promises made by seb Coe , and the common sense , best option for the taxpayer is a football stadium , with 2 clubs bidding to buy the site , generating funds for the taxpayer .

Instead of putting in more public money to reconfigure the OS, they should sell it to the highest bidder(s) .

2 football clubs bid £100m for the site - taxpayer wins .
2 football clubs build football stadium on site for £300m, and knock up an athletics legacy on the hockey stadium for £25m - and bloody Orient can play there - everybody wins a bit.
2 football clubs sell naming rights to huge multinational for 30 years for £200m - 2 big football clubs win.

Net cost of brand new stadium to each club of about £115m .Currently Spurs are facing a net bill ( including the benfit of naming rights) of more than double that , we are looking at moving into a shitty bowl, and Athletics are looking at a huge shiny stadium they cannot afford without us .

I'm not saying I want this by the way , but with so much money at stake, I can see it happening .

Once the Olympic Games have been held , the entire legacy comittment will be outweighed by the economic reality .
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Doc H Ball on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:04 pm

MD_HM wrote: We also dont know whats going to be done if anything in terms of seats, you were at the FF so heard Gold say they were looking at options... thats been my main point, we havent seen the plans to really vote yes or no


The Official Site still has a page on this dated in April. It says that the club are looking at retractable seats similar to those at the Stade de France costing around £10m :lol:

Truth is we won't see any plans, if there are any, until after a contract is signed. Now the taxpayer is paying for the 'conversion', we are stuck with whatever plans they have anyway.

That's the point of the meeting on Thursday as I understand it - to try to force the club's hand before then. A few of us have become fed up with the propoganda, blather and prevarication and just want some straight answers.
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby MD_HM on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:14 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:
Truth is we won't see any plans, if there are any, until after a contract is signed. Now the taxpayer is paying for the 'conversion', we are stuck with whatever plans they have anyway.

That's the point of the meeting on Thursday as I understand it - to try to force the club's hand before then. A few of us have become fed up with the propoganda, blather and prevarication and just want some straight answers.


What if they didnt want to disclose to plans until its a done deal due letting any of the other bidders into what we have planned? Or they didnt want to spend money on full blown plans until then in case we dont get it? Or maybe then havent known how much will be spent and have lots of different options?

I thought the 40m from Newham was still going towards the conversion as it will be government to government and was the way round the last legal issue?

I am not saying any of the above is the case but it might be, I just think that until the deal is signed then it "may" not be possible to share with us yet
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Doc H Ball on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:33 pm

MD_HM wrote: I am not saying any of the above is the case but it might be, I just think that until the deal is signed then it "may" not be possible to share with us yet


And I think what you say is fair enough.

Any proper poll should have an option that says something like: ''We trust in the ownership to look after our interests after any move'. I accept a lot of people do believe that and I have no problem with it.

I don't personally want to be a part of any protest against the O.S., although that is for discussion I guess. I want a full and fair poll before commitment to be arranged by the club or some form of independent poll of around 20-25,000 people arranged.
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby beckton on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:47 pm

the pink palermo wrote:Once the Olympic Games have been held , the entire legacy comittment will be outweighed by the economic reality .




I agree with this bit but bids are meant to be in by January and after the games have finished would most likely be too late for Spurs to get their hands on the site. I'd expect by then that they'd be fully tied into redeveloping ***** hart lane.
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:50 pm

Are Newham still putting up 40M ? I thought that they had to abandon the deal ???

Signed

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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby MD_HM on Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:13 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Are Newham still putting up 40M ? I thought that they had to abandon the deal ???

Signed

Very Confused
Cuenca, Ecuador.



My understanding is that Newham will still "give" the government the 40m towards the stadium, its no longer state aid as is going from government to government.

The new bid process has to include plans for the running track to stay.

and by magic no more legal protests :lol:
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby paulhs1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:07 pm

the pink palermo wrote:Once the Olympic Games have been held , the entire legacy comittment will be outweighed by the economic reality .

Makes sense although I think that the lack of time could be a stumbling block to this coming off. Also 3 clubs within a 400 yard radius would be interesting to say the least, but as you say any sort of deal is possible in these times of austerity especially when you take into account that our owners appear to want to get us to Stratford at all costs, so who knows what they will compromise on…ground share, athletics track, no branding, no corporate hospitality, anything could be possible. Anyone who thinks we have got the stadium sown up should think again, anything could happen in the next three months, anything is possible!
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Rheo on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:45 pm

MD_HM wrote:

My understanding is that Newham will still "give" the government the 40m towards the stadium, its no longer state aid as is going from government to government.

The new bid process has to include plans for the running track to stay.

and by magic no more legal protests :lol:


But weren't Newham borrowing the money at preferential rates, then WHFC paying it back?

Giving £40m out of council funds for the OS when they're having to make £41m in cuts to council services might be a tad difficult to justify.
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Jiminy_Cricket on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:50 pm

I'll be there

-Jim
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby beckton on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:10 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:I got called a 'treacherous c***' for starting this thread, which was nice. Bet the bloke who said it didn't go to Grimsby away one wet cold December Wednesday. Either put up or shut up people.




Go on, tell us who it was and then we'll be able to work out if they're the type to go to Grimsby on a wet Wednesday night. :D
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby MD_HM on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:23 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Are Newham still putting up 40M ? I thought that they had to abandon the deal ???

Signed

Very Confused
Cuenca, Ecuador.


The minister said the public ownership of the stadium would now allow Newham to commit that money - though they have yet to say they will do so - and that any gap would be covered by rental income.

Robertson said: "It is a little bit which way you cut it. There is £35million in the public sector funding package already for legacy conversion.

"Then you have got the £40million that Newham were prepared to commit to the original project. They can now commit that to this model without a state aid issue because it goes public body to public body.

"Then you have to get the all-round figure up to £95million and then you have a gap of £20million, which was originally going to be filled by West Ham's sale of their ground at Upton Park.

"That will be replaced by an annual rental charge by whoever the end tenant is."
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:53 pm

So Newham give the government 40M quid and then Orient move in ?

:lol:

My guess is now they won't. Worked better for them, weren't they going to get 50% (or something) in revenue sharing from Gollies for when concerts etc. used the facility ? Now of course we only pay 2M rent but we won't get the revenue from the cricket and concerts so is really a good financial package as the first one would have been ? If not why give away 40M quid ? What's in it for them ?

I can only surmise this as it all goes over my head.
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby mywhufc on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:55 pm

I would imagine it would need another council vote. Their 40 mill was their share of the SPV to run and redevelop the stadium, which they would have received back through the rent by West Ham and income from extra activities, unless the council still get 50% except they run it with the OPLC so technically they could be our landlords
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby AJ on Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:29 am

If you draft up some consultation questions at the meeting:

Can someone ask G&S why we dont now just keep the boleyn and rent the OS.

My thoughts - Lots of negativity about the OS from fans, doubts many would go with the distance to pitch. So why not only use the OS for matches where we think the boleyn will sell out? That way if the attendances are less for these so called big matches than what we got at the boleyn, we can say thanks for the OS but you can stick it. Kind of like try before you buy? Or return in 21 months if not satisfied with the product? Or we signing up for some 250 year deal where we have to rent it no matter the situation?

As we no longer need the 40m to redevelop the OS? Is the 40m from the sale of the boleyn going towards new players? player wages? Reducing the debt? So why not hold onto it for a season and see what the OS is like when we get in, before selling up?

Can see the situation being when we get to the OS, the board say well you have to like it as we have no other ground to go to.......
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby jonnyboy on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:22 am

A friend of mine is a Fulham season ticket holder and he has been invited to Craven Cottage by the club this week for a meeting/presentation/interactive feedback session regarding a proposed redevelopment of the ground and 'his' stand in particular...

Nice idea...
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Re: Protest Meeting Arranged

Postby Hayden on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:14 am

MD_HM wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkDjAIP6BvA&sns=em" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Just playing devil's advocate here, as I agree with what he's getting at... But when I see people like Gary Firmager say 'any football stadium in the world with a running track around it is a second rate stadium' (or along those lines), I start to think... Have you been to EVERY football stadium in the world with a running track round it?

I think it's a terrible idea, don't get me wrong, but I wonder about the examples where stadiums HAVE done it right... there must be some!
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