Hull City 0 West Ham Utd 2 (05/11/11)

[WoodgateHammer]

As Cole doesn't win any headers

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Did you hear or see the game, how did Baldock receive the ball for his goal then...........

[WoodgateHammer]

http://backcountryblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/sir-edmund-hillary-dies-at-age-88.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

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Fkn quality Rom......sorry PInky..

[Henry Wilt]

Highlights from Beeb for the foreign Hammers (in case not posted yet) - at least it played for me!

http://hullcity.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1396

Cheers Bud, you're a star.
The stream I had for this was s**t and it broke up real bad for our 2nd. It really was a quality goal!!

[Hockley Hammer]

To me the three things that can turn an ordinary team into a good team are:

A good captain, a good goalkeeper and a natural goalscorer.

Having these make the difference at vital moments in games as we have seen. You might have to pay a bit more for them but that is where the extra points come from.

We could have dominated the match at Hull but they had the above and nicked it against the run of play (Spuds at Fulham).

Would we be any happier having dominated the game, played really well but lost?

I am only too happy to see us winning games that we have spent years losing, keeping clean sheets and nicking matches - teams have been doing it to us for years.

How anybody can moan after the crap we have witnessed in the last two seasons is astonishing. As people have said we will have more points soon that we have gained in either of the last two seasons. Most people including me agree we can be better, so what is the problem?

[rare as rockinghorse shat]

Yep, know that Rars, and despite us conceding relatively few goals, I'm still not happy with how we are defending - as a team .

It's improving - as I've acknowledged , but it still isn't good enough .As enjoyable as it is watching an England keeper throwing himself all over the goal to save the day , it really shouldn't be neccesary .

You're again citing 1 example as an indication of the way things are.
It's the first time Green has been properly called into action this season.
Cech will have to play some blinders for Chelsea away at Wigan, De Gea away at Villa, Szczesny away at Fulham etc etc
As said, it's what they're there for.

You're not happy with the way we are defending. I suspect this is because we defend a little too deep and last ditch for your liking.
Though, I think you may have neglected the possibility that this is how we have deliberately set up... keeping a solid back line and leaving players forward, as to make us consistently dangerous on the attack/break for 90+10 minutes of any given game.
Holding a certain shape and sticking to a plan which means the defenders specifically are called upon to defend resolutely.

It's what they're there for.

Brighton - They could have played for 2hrs without scoring. We defended deep and never looked threatened. We won 1-0. Clean sheet.
Hull - we played deep again and our defenders/keeper done well again. We won 2-0. Clean sheet.
We've got just about the best defensive record in the league and it's not by accident.

The method may not be to your liking, but make no mistake, we are defending well.

[the pink palermo]

My question is Pinky, is if the Fizzy Pop teams forwards are s***e, how come we are facing a lot of shots on goal ? Means someone somewhere ain't doing their job, or this lot are better than they are being giving credit for (opponents that it).

Cuenca

On 3 away trips the opposition have bossed the ball .Saints, Brighton and to some extent Hull .They have been able to pass it right through us .Against Brighton the corner count was horrific - the defensive tactic clearly being to concede the corner and defend the set piece .Sooner or later someone will have the smarts to take a short corner or do what Pompey did for their first goal and play a clever moveon the deck , to eradicate the impact of Faye the beast .

For me, the issue is we are not retaining the ball when we play one up top , and it keeps coming back at us - which brings us back to our friend KN .Now, as others have said - so what , nobody has been able to take advantage, so where's the harm ? Well, eventually, someone will have a lucky pop at goal, it costs us points and we are 3rd not first .

Such are the margins in this league .

[the pink palermo]

You're again citing 1 example as an indication of the way things are.
It's the first time Green has been properly called into action this season.
You're not happy with the way we are defending. I suspect this is because we defend a little too deep and last ditch for your liking.
Though, I think you may have neglected the possibility that this is how we have deliberately set up... keeping a solid back line and leaving players forward, as to make us consistently dangerous on the attack/break for 90+10 minutes of any given game.
Holding a certain shape and sticking to a plan which means the defenders specifically are called upon to defend resolutely.

It's what they're there for.

The method may not be to your liking, but make no mistake, we are defending well.

Rars - if you believe it was the first time Green has properly been called into action this season you are decieving yourself .In two or three games he has kept us in it, before we went ahead to take the points .

As for the rest of your post - yes I understand .We are too deep for my liking , but I know it is deliberate .Against Saints for example, before Taylor went off and Sam changed the shape, we had two absolutely solid banks of four - as we have had on numerous occasions this year , something we haven't had for years .

I can see what he is trying to set us up to do , and so far , we have delivered on his plan ( which is a different assessment to "we are getting away with it") .
Without being rude, as you are probably not old enough , but Clough was a master at this - soaking up pressure all day long , and hitting sides on the break .It's not new , and he had bags of pace out wide in his teams to really stretch the opposition , but as you say , I don't like defending deep .If we had an Etherington for example, to really tear away with an out ball , I may be happier , as at least it would sow the seed of doubt in the oppositions mind .I can see, when he plays Baldock wide in midifield he ( Big Sam) is trying to create that sort of impact, but Baldock is not quite quick enough .

As you say though , I don't like defending deep , It gifts an opportunity to the opposition .Nobody has exploited it , because few are good enough , but someone will throw a lucky punch , and it will land .

[rare as rockinghorse shat]

Yes, it will land. Big deal. We lose the odd game, it happens.
Yet we'll still be on course for automatic promotion, with the best defensive record in the league.

Our defensive set up against Hull, Brighton etc and the way we sit a little deeper, a little more cautious, is a direct lesson learnt from the Ipswich and Cardiff games.
Good initial reactive management to combat the problem, then good pro-active management to work out how to stop it happening again.
Indeed, how many managers have we had over the years, guilty of not identifying, but instead repeating the same mistakes?

On Green - yeah, he has kept us in it with a few saves. But that's his job.
I was referring to him winning us the game almost single handedly.

Noble has won us 3 points with a single goal, Baldock with a brace, Nolan's solitary goal has won us 2 games.

Everyone will have their role to play this year, at different points, in different games.
2 weeks, Green will be the hero, rescuing the shaky Tomkins. Another week Nolan will be rescued by Faye's clearances, Cole will make up for Baldock's misfiring in front of goal etc

These are all small parts of a Championship winning team, in a Championship winning campaign.
They aren't an individual signifier of a bigger problem and shouldn't be micro-analysed as such

[the pink palermo]

These are all small parts of a Championship winning team, in a Championship winning campaign.
They aren't an individual signifier of a bigger problem and shouldn't be micro-analysed as such

Hence why I keep to broad brush comments, big picture stuff .A real 30,000 feet kinda guy .....

In fairness, the single biggest improivement I have seen this year is desire .Players getting blocks in , a willingness to fight in our box, and try and protect a clean sheet .

The team is motivated, and organised .

[dapablo]

The team is motivated, and organised .

The single most important fact in our current situation.

[Irrons]

Did you hear or see the game, how did Baldock receive the ball for his goal then...........

Ok he doesn't win any headers is a bit of an exaggeration, but he doesn't win many from goalkicks or lumped balls up from the back. This is what I was referring to. Corners and set plays he seems to do better although mainly from second balls or when unchallenged (for example when defending the front post with opposition corners). If you watched the match on Saturday and watch west ham often you'll know he's not very effective as a target man for hoofball, evidenced by the fact that we won hardly anything this way after scoring the goals which kept us under constant pressure the last half hour. Play the ball into his feet however and look what happens...!