FAC3: Sheffield Wednesday 1 West Ham Utd 0 (08/01/12)

[Turns to Stone]

Of course the wagebill has decreased , it always was going to given the astronomical amounts being paid Upson, Dyer,Parker,Benni and Boa Morte to only name a few.

But look at the players who've come in, all apart from Baldock (and maybe JOB) will be on premier league level wages, how can you say we have not thrown our budget at promotion?

After that you only have Taylor and Nolan which have been brought in. Fair enough, we've spent money on Taylor and Nolan of course, but again, if we look at it that their earning just what LBM and Benni McCarthy were earning then all of a sudden their signings seem much, much more of a bargain.

As I’ve said in the other thread, Moth. Our opinions aren’t that dissimilar when it comes to Allardyce, he’s not the man I would have chosen, nor is he the sort of manager that I would have chosen. But once we’ve gone down that path....he’s the best in that field in terms of percentage football, so it’s hard to argue with what G and S have done.

I suppose it depends on what you view as ‘Chucking the budget at something’ though Moth. But personally, I would say that with the Parachute payments and with our current situation, they have a made a sensible frugal decision on their spendings this year, but the fact that we still have a very lop-sided squad and in terms of first-team players we actually ‘own’, it’s effectively been halved since last season, I would say that there has been a real element of caution about the business that has been done. Perhaps not in comparison to the rest of the division, but then the rest of the division isn’t planning on moving into a 50,000 all seater stadium in two years time, so it’s all about your definition of spend I guess.

[Aceface]

This argument that throwing money at the team equals automatically steamroller-ing (is that a word?) the league is best shown up by Leicester - they've spent much more than anyone else in the league this season and what have they done? Sweet FA so far.

Matt Mills alone went for £1.5 million more than the supposedly hefty offer we're alleged to have bid for Jordan Rhodes. Konchesky was £3 million. Our equivalents in these positions were Faye on a free and Linda on loan.

[Denbighammer]

You may or may not recall how Derby County fared when Billy Davies got them promoted last time around ? Or Burnley, Blackpool etc etc .Sometimes it can happen too soon , with the subsequant relegation , managerial churn ( usually) an unpleasant experience for many .

TPP, we are a far different proposition from Derby, Burnley or Blackpool both on and off the field. We have a history of being in the PL and have a larger, wealthier fan base and the added lure of the South as a place to live for new players. I firmly believe that if we went up we could be stabilised there far more easily than any other team in the Championship and would hold our own (with a couple of additions) against sides like Swansea, QPR and Norwich.

Well, I was there along with 17,000 odd others, trying to deliver an atmopshere for the internet fans . We deserved better .

Pinky, what sort of side would you have played yesterday? Seemed pre-match that most people wanted to see a few kids and some of the reserves getting a game with a few first teamers in to settle things a little. I thought that was the kind of team that was played, how they performed is obviously another matter.

[dapablo]

Well, I was there along with 17,000 odd others, trying to deliver an atmopshere for the internet fans . We deserved better .

Still good to see the wealthy spending there money purely to be superior to those that aren't, keep up the good work you know it's always appreciated.

Rather disengenious as well, you knew what sort of team was going to be put out, your know child after all, so why pretend you expected something else ?

[Hambrosia Stu]

As soon as I saw the team selection, I knew exactly how high (or should that be low) the FA Cup is in Sam's priorities this season. I'd hoped, what with a week until the next game, that he'd have picked as strong a side as was sensible to do so. But like the Aldershot game in the LC, as soon as I saw the line up announced, I thought to myself that Sam was more than happy to go out at the first hurdle.

It was nowhere near as strong as it could have been had Sam wanted the chance of a cup run. We just don't have the depth to play a second string without a big drop in quality

Carnage, your last line was really what I was getting at .I'm not a fan of fielding weakened teams either but my question was really how much weaker than normal was that line up ?

Quite a few of those that played , play reguarly .For sure we saw the "stars" rested ( stop laughing at the back), but we had 5 fairly experienced players out there - it's not as if Sam had done a Roberto Martinez is it ?

The reality is our squad is simply not good enough .If it isn't good enough to cope with half a dozen changes against a third division side , what will we do next year if we go up ?

I agree, totally. It's not only about quality, but numbers as well
We do have a very decent first 11, and you can probably extend that 14 or 15 players who are more than good enough for where we are right now, and could certainly do a job, at least, in the PL.
But beyond that we are lacking. We are short in a lot of positions. 2 wide players in the entire squad... only 3 centre backs... we are low on numbers, and once beyond the players who would be challenging for a place in the first 11, we lack depth of talent as well

I think we need to look at bringing in more young 'uns, to complement what we have. We have a lot of experience in our squad, players who have played in the PL, and been around the block. We need a few more like Baldock, imo. Players who are just about ready to push on to better things. It would give more competition, more energy, and ideally we can pick a few up from this division, or below, or from abroad, without breaking the bank. Players who aren't going to be guaranteed 1st choice, but who it would be hoped would be challenging the more experienced players for a place in the side, if not right away, in the short term future. We could do with a few throughout the squad like that, and with the future in mind, this window would be a good time to start adding a few

[the pink palermo]

Pinky, what sort of side would you have played yesterday? Seemed pre-match that most people wanted to see a few kids and some of the reserves getting a game with a few first teamers in to settle things a little. I thought that was the kind of team that was played, how they performed is obviously another matter.

I think there is something wrong when Managers are using certain competitions to rest players .To answer your question, I believe the Manager of any football club has to field what he believes to be the strongest side he can - at all times .So, if a player is knackered and needs a rest leave him out , and it doesn't matter what the competition is .Don't however leave them out as a matter of policy - that's just cheating the fans that pay at the gate .

I'm all for giving youngsters a game - if they are good enough - but does throwing a youngster in for an FA cup tie boost their self esteem, confidence and ability if they believe the only reason they are playing is to avoid senior players getting injured ?

Cannon fodder ?

Let me spin the question .Had we won yesterday, would you be an advocate of starting the same XI against Pompey ?

Earlier this season we saw a young CB introduced in a CC game on debut .He got sent off, loaned out , and 4 months later is transferred out of the club .The Manager used that player to make a point , and to me that is wrong .

[the pink palermo]

Still good to see the wealthy spending there money purely to be superior to those that aren't, keep up the good work you know it's always appreciated.

You have no idea whatsoever as to my financial circumstances or any of the other fans that paid yesterday .You've butted in on a conversation I'm having with another poster and you have chosen to take a comment out of context .He was making the point the cups don't matter , I was making the point they do to those that pay to go .

So, frankly, shut up .

Rather disengenious as well, you knew what sort of team was going to be put out, your know child after all, so why pretend you expected something else ?

What I know and what I expect are two different things .However , the continnued practice of devaluing this competiton by compromised selections by many Managers will see the competitions demise .

Next up , weakened teams when playing Man City : why bother trying - we won't win, and why risk an injury to a key player ? Are you telling me you would be happy watching that on your internet feed or listening on the radio as our youth team get stuffed 30-0 , and have the Manager trotting out some tired old line afterwards ......"well , you couldn't expect me to field my strongest side against the champions , what would be the point ?"

I've already posted on this thread that our side yesterday wasn't totally weakened - our Manager looked like he was going for a bit of a mix and match side , but he could have put a stronger side out for sure .

[Yea Why Not]

I really expected Collison and Lansbury to run the show against League 1 opposition. How did they play?

[Denbighammer]

I think there is something wrong when Managers are using certain competitions to rest players .To answer your question, I believe the Manager of any football club has to field what he believes to be the strongest side he can - at all times .So, if a player is knackered and needs a rest leave him out , and it doesn't matter what the competition is .Don't however leave them out as a matter of policy - that's just cheating the fans that pay at the gate .
I take your point but maybe there were players in the squad in need of a break. They've either played most games (Nolan & Noble) or have got questionable fitness and injury records (Cole and Diop). If you think the manager needs to play his strongest squad then what if we were romping the league with a few matches left - we looked nailed on for promotion. We've also qualifed for the FA Cup semi. Do you play a full strength side for the league match a couple of days before or rest your best blokes for the semi?
I'm all for giving youngsters a game - if they are good enough - but does throwing a youngster in for an FA cup tie boost their self esteem, confidence and ability if they believe the only reason they are playing is to avoid senior players getting injured ?
Do you think the young lads care why they're playing? I would have thought they would just be glad of getting a chance and, if there made of the right kind of stuff, would be looking to do well and make a name for themselves. Rob Hall probably wasn't thinking, "I wonder why Piquionne isn't playing today?" he was probably thinking "this is my chance to be a hero and make a name for myself!"
Let me spin the question .Had we won yesterday, would you be an advocate of starting the same XI against Pompey ?
Not if players were being legitimately rested. Also, even if we had won yesterday there were still some clearly poor performances (Potts, Sears, Lansbury, Boffin) so I would expect those who didn't perform on a personal level to be replaced for Pompey. Wouldn't you do the same?
Earlier this season we saw a young CB introduced in a CC game on debut .He got sent off, loaned out , and 4 months later is transferred out of the club .The Manager used that player to make a point , and to me that is wrong .
Sorry mate but I can't agree with that. The lad got given a chance and it didn't go well. I don't see that as Sam sending a message to other players at all. I remember Zola giving Bondz N'Gala a run out against Bolton in the Carling Cup. He got murdered by K.Davies and was loaned and then sold to Plymouth shortly after. The principle is the same - neither were good enough.

[Dannyboylister]

Let's get over the better fan debate Pink. You are without doubt a bigger fan than me, I don't doubt it. Your opinion carries more weight than mine, but in my non-paying opinion, Allardyce was spot on with his selection. It's a shame you spent money going and didn't get to see the better players or a victory, but we have a plan and cup games are secondary to the league in those plans. Rightly so in my view.

[the pink palermo]

Let's get over the better fan debate Pink. You are without doubt a bigger fan than me, I don't doubt it. Your opinion carries more weight than mine, but in my non-paying opinion, Allardyce was spot on with his selection. It's a shame you spent money going and didn't get to see the better players or a victory, but we have a plan and cup games are secondary to the league in those plans. Rightly so in my view.

Dannyboy it's not about who the biggest fan is , nor about who's opinion carries more weight based upon number of games attended .The issue is if a fan attended yesterdays game - for the first and only time, he has paid to see a competitive game of football , and that surely starts with honest selections by the Managers .

We don't agree , but it's all about opinions .

[Lincolnhammer92]

I really expected Collison and Lansbury to run the show against League 1 opposition. How did they play?

Collison looked solid, but didn't have a lot of influence, made a couple of runs and switched flanks a couple of times but that was about it.
Lansbury was awful. Gave the ball away and got caught in posession far too much.

[mushy]

Collison looked solid, but didn't have a lot of influence, made a couple of runs and switched flanks a couple of times but that was about it.
Lansbury was awful. Gave the ball away and got caught in posession far too much.

I thought Collison had a good game and Lansbury an ok game, they were not helped by Sears and O'Neil though who to me were both bloody awful, meaning our midfield at times looked well off the pace..
I hold my hands up, I have never been an O'Neil fan, he lacked pace before his injury and his ankle problem does not help.
He looked at least six weeks away from first team action to me.
As for Sears, I fear his days may well be numbered.
As for Carew, his days SHOULD be numbered.
Potts looked green again and is another that lacks pace.
Robert Hall looked sharp and lively when he came on. did 'Brian' touch the ball?
The long delay came at a time when we were bossing the game, it restarted and they went up and scored.
shame, not sure either team deserved to win.

[Dannyboylister]

We don't agree , but it's all about opinions .

Just out of curiosity, imagine you put the full team out yesterday and we drew. What team do you play for Portsmouth? Then what about the replay on the Tuesday? Then Forest? This would have left us playing 7 games in under a month with our injury list.

[Gabers]

im gonna send out a box of tissues to all who travelled yesterday for your tears..... cant remember how many away games ive been to and we have lost..... dont remember coming on here to cry about it though..... strange

[Chester Hammer]

I went to the match yesterday having spent the weekend in Sheffield, It is sad to say im actually happy to be back in work

[mushy]

im gonna send out a box of tissues to all who travelled yesterday for your tears..... cant remember how many away games ive been to and we have lost..... dont remember coming on here to cry about it though..... strange

I went and am not crying, nor were most at the game, there was a sense of realism after and acceptance.
We fielded a weakened team, I thought we were a little unlucky even if we did not deserve to win.
I had a good day out, spoilt only by a pretty **** performance, situation normal really.

[the pink palermo]

Just out of curiosity, imagine you put the full team out yesterday and we drew. What team do you play for Portsmouth? Then what about the replay on the Tuesday? Then Forest? This would have left us playing 7 games in under a month with our injury list.

I'd play the strongest side I could , week after week, after week .

A bit like we did in 85/86 .Great league campaign and a decent cup run iirc .From memory I think we had around half a dozen players that played the best part of 50 compettive games that season .We won't have anyone playing more than 37 this year .

Is the injury list really that bad ? Taylor, Faye, Demel and Stetch are the only injuried players we have .Stetch is being left out fro contractual reasons anyway .

[Dannyboylister]

Fair enough. Can't be bothered arguing this anymore. Me and every modern manager disagree with you but it's all about opinions.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Last week BFS said Carew wasn't good enough lately and that's why he hadn't been playing. And then goes straight into the starting line up.

If playing a "weakened" side was the point, then give Hall and Montenegro more than token minutes and start Nouble.

Simple.