Captain Kevin Nolan

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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Yea Why Not on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:44 am

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:Or, because of the roles and energy of an additional key central midfield player - not naming any names :lol: - it defines both Noble's and Nolan's roles more clearly, giving both players more space and time to exert influence on the game and, in the case of the former, more scope to stamp his authority on a game rather than having to put extra effort and leg work in unnecessary areas.


I agree on paper it looks good and with 2 decent performances in a row at home it would suggest that it’s working. In a midfield 3 i'd ideally like to see a worker, a passer and an attacker. I suppose our current 3 fit that mould pretty well
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:58 am

Bedded in well....will be storming by next season.

The home form's been iffy all season, but we're a better side than Reading and Southampton with better players. The main difference is what RARS alludes to and that's that our players in key positions have only really had a maximum of 3 - 4 months playing together. Whilst Reading and Southampton have had 2 years playing together. We've had an entirely new squad this year.

Nolan will be fine. He's a good player, playing in a good side, for a good manager who are taking their time to gel and who have been lacking some key players in key positions.

Having Vaz Te in the side is what Allardyce wanted at the start of the season in Mackail-Smith. We now have a better version and at a lower price. But it did mean that we were unbalanced for much of the season. If we don't go up, I'd be very confident about our chances next season.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Hockley Hammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:21 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:Bedded in well....will be storming by next season.

The home form's been iffy all season, but we're a better side than Reading and Southampton with better players. The main difference is what RARS alludes to and that's that our players in key positions have only really had a maximum of 3 - 4 months playing together. Whilst Reading and Southampton have had 2 years playing together. We've had an entirely new squad this year.

Nolan will be fine. He's a good player, playing in a good side, for a good manager who are taking their time to gel and who have been lacking some key players in key positions.

Having Vaz Te in the side is what Allardyce wanted at the start of the season in Mackail-Smith. We now have a better version and at a lower price. But it did mean that we were unbalanced for much of the season. If we don't go up, I'd be very confident about our chances next season.


Cannot agree more. I keep saying Leicester is a better comparison that the two teams above us.

A better side is starting to emerge, but I don't think we will keep them together unless we go up. I'd like to be wrong and have the best parts of this squad still here, but I will be surprised if that happens.

To be honest going for the championship from the outset next season has a better feel that looking where we are going to pick up 40 points from once the fixtures are out.

The trouble is once the play-offs start, the hype takes over and i'd love nothing more than to see us stuff Birmingham in the final.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:29 pm

HH

Bit of a Catch 22 isn't it. You need your best players to get you out of the Fizzy but if you don't get out, your best players (no doubt) will leave. Ergo you (normally) don't get out.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:37 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:HH

Bit of a Catch 22 isn't it. You need your best players to get you out of the Fizzy but if you don't get out, your best players (no doubt) will leave. Ergo you (normally) don't get out.


Kind of, but then who would leave?

Tomkins? Green? Cole? Noble?

Out of those the one we would miss the most would be Noble. Don't get me wrong, Green, Cole and Tomkins are fine, fine players. But in the Championship how much worse off would we really be if they were replaced with (for example) - Almunia, Faye and Maynard?

Vaz Te could possibly go, but I'd like to think the board would hang on for 1 more year as he's only been here 6 months. Also, let's be honest, the side we have now is unrecognisable to the one that finished last season. If we don't go up, even if we lose players, the nucleus, manager and coaching set-up should remain the same. Last year everything went out the window and had to be started from scratch. Allardyce brought in something like 22 players. We shouldn't have that situation again next season regardless of where we finish.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:04 pm

HH

Problem is that (Green we could possibly replace the easiest) but seeing say Tonka, more than likely Noble included, plus of course now we have Faye, Diop, (more than likely) Linda, Faubert (no loss imvho) and Lansbury out. Carew I could care less, he has been a complete waste of resources imvho.

Then you have to question whether Taylor would stay another year, ditto with Nolan (both depending upon who the gaffer is I would think). A massive (yet again) overhaul in playing staff, which according to a lot on here means we didn't storm away with the division because the likes of Reading and Soton had a settled playing staff.

New keeper
New CB
New LB
New DM
New RB (imvho JOB is decent and Demel isn't getting any younger and has had a year out)

These are areas of serious concern. O'Neill, Collison, and fill in the blanks, can manage the mid field with some additions.

My biggest concern is yet again having to rebuild the defensive side of the ball which has been our real demise as Pinky quite correctly points out, for the past 4 seasons, with the owners a bit like the NFL of the past, more content on filling the "Glamour Positions" than the "Grunt" workers. Fast forward to now and I would guess the second highest paid players outside the quarter backs are the defensive ends. It has to be addressed and I for one am a bit tired or having a revolving door of a back 5 (or 6) and when we ship in goals at times (which is to be expected) everyone shakes their collective heads and wonders why we don't score more, despite chucking a king's ransom (for us) at forwards who fail to hit the target.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby upton o'good on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:18 pm

maltab wrote:I have read somewhere,maybe here that Kevin has now bought a place,and his family are moving down in August.It was mentioned that he is a lot happier now.
At the training day,Kev,s brother bought along his little boy and girl,and obviously like any father,he adores on his kids.His boy can,t be older than 2,but he was out kicking a ball around with his dad.
Even though he had his kids there,Kev was great with all the other children there.I got some great photos from the day inc one with our Captain with my kids and his little boy.
I,ve always believed,if your home life is settled,then everything else fits into place,and i do believe our Captains performances will continue to improve from now on.
Would post some pics from training,but haven,t a clue how to.


probably has better touch...


sorry, cdnt resist.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
Then you have to question whether Taylor would stay another year, ditto with Nolan (both depending upon who the gaffer is I would think). A massive (yet again) overhaul in playing staff, which according to a lot on here means we didn't storm away with the division because the likes of Reading and Soton had a settled playing staff.

New keeper
New CB
New LB
New DM
New RB (imvho JOB is decent and Demel isn't getting any younger and has had a year out)

These are areas of serious concern. O'Neill, Collison, and fill in the blanks, can manage the mid field with some additions.

My biggest concern is yet again having to rebuild the defensive side of the ball which has been our real demise as Pinky quite correctly points out, for the past 4 seasons, with the owners a bit like the NFL of the past, more content on filling the "Glamour Positions" than the "Grunt" workers. Fast forward to now and I would guess the second highest paid players outside the quarter backs are the defensive ends. It has to be addressed and I for one am a bit tired or having a revolving door of a back 5 (or 6) and when we ship in goals at times (which is to be expected) everyone shakes their collective heads and wonders why we don't score more, despite chucking a king's ransom (for us) at forwards who fail to hit the target.


If we were to stay down, I don't think we would have too many problems. If we were to make the signings of McCartney and Collins permanent, even if we were to lose Tomkins (a player I love, but wouldn't begrudge top flight football) that would give us a defensive unit of - Demel, J'OB, McCartney, Potts, Reid, Faye, Collins. Just 1 centre-back short of being fine.

In midfield, Noble would be a mssive loss, but I don't envisage Allardyce leaving (and therefore Nolan). Matty Taylor may leave, but I don't see too many sides that would be chasing him very, very hard. O'Neill should stay, I'd be very, very disappointed if Noble didn't give us one more season - so that's the 3 sorted, Morrison 1 year older and 1 year more experienced, Collison readfy from the off this time. Up top, Maynard, Vaz Te, Baldock should definitely be here. 1 more striker and a couple of wingers and I don't really see us being that much weaker. Allardyce has worked the loan system ok this year, but there will also be a load of freebies knocking around by the end of the season. I can't imagine that G and S will want to take the foot off the peddle, so see no reason why they won't re-invest the wages of the likes of Carew, Faubert, Ilunga and Piquionne into 2 or 3 new players.

Last year it was a new engine we needed, this time it's just a new stereo, maybe a spoiler for the back and one of those back massagers for the driver's seat.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby bubbles1966 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:HH

Bit of a Catch 22 isn't it. You need your best players to get you out of the Fizzy but if you don't get out, your best players (no doubt) will leave. Ergo you (normally) don't get out.


...unless you're Reading (who sold Matt Mills and Shane Long last summer)

There really isn't much outstanding class at this level - and I include ours among that.

Plenty of decent players - a fair few that could play for teams in the bottom half of the Premiership - but barely a soul that you'd put in the top 8 team.

Not much difference between bottom half of the PL and top 10 in the fizz that a years TV money wouldn't eradicate.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby eta1978 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:56 pm

He is also on 5 times more than most of the players we play against but i dont see him being 5 times better, its a case of bfs has bought his mate with him and to be honest i think the money invested in his wages and transfer fee could have been better spent........ this guy is not a leader he is a bully.... take a moment to look at him during a match if we miss place a pass he doesnt say keep ya chin up he rips into the player responsible...... I was bought up to believe you treat people the way you want to be treated so he obviously wants to get chinned all the time.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:13 pm

eta1978 wrote:He is also on 5 times more than most of the players we play against but i dont see him being 5 times better, its a case of bfs has bought his mate with him and to be honest i think the money invested in his wages and transfer fee could have been better spent........ this guy is not a leader he is a bully.... take a moment to look at him during a match if we miss place a pass he doesnt say keep ya chin up he rips into the player responsible...... I was bought up to believe you treat people the way you want to be treated so he obviously wants to get chinned all the time.


The other players seem to have reacted well to him.

In fact, from what I've seen this year I would see the spirit of the players seems to be better than it has been in years.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Hockley Hammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:56 pm

eta1978 wrote:He is also on 5 times more than most of the players we play against but i dont see him being 5 times better, its a case of bfs has bought his mate with him and to be honest i think the money invested in his wages and transfer fee could have been better spent........ this guy is not a leader he is a bully.... take a moment to look at him during a match if we miss place a pass he doesnt say keep ya chin up he rips into the player responsible...... I was bought up to believe you treat people the way you want to be treated so he obviously wants to get chinned all the time.


And you have evidence that the players don't like it? If they are frightened of him then more fool them. The spirit of the players seems fine to me and a bit of bullying on the pitch is maybe what some require.

Do our younger players look intimidated by Nolan? Noble and Tomkins up for HOTY indicates they are doing just fine.

Let's bring the money up again, what on earth do we pay our joint top goalscorer and captain for?
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Hockley Hammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Cuenca

What worries me that we are starting to see the makings of a side with some viable alternatives, but failure to get promoted may result in the owners looking to cash in on a few.

The obvious ones are Green, Tomkins and Noble, with possibly Collison.

Most of the others will not attract premier league values, but this group could.

I'm coming to the conclusion that Green is going to go whatever, that is why we got Henderson. I think Green feels undervalued at this club, which is a shame as I think we could have done more to keep him. I hope I am proved wrong.

Tomkins is the obvious main target if the board want to cash in. I hope they hold their nerve for another season.

I have seen more encouragement in the last six or seven games with better balance in the side. Players finding their form etc.

If we go up then it's a different set of problems, but if we stay down I see a decent team forming, one year down the line with more experience of this division. We break it up too much in the championship then we are back to square one in my opinion.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:51 pm

HH and bubbs

In no particular order.

Green ~ freebie; gone no money in exchange but we have a decent back up to move into that spot.
Faye ~ well my guess is he is about at the limit now, 1 pen and a couple of costly gaffs, wasn't even in the squad Sat was he ? Of course might be injured.
Linda ~ I would give him another contract if it were decent money, but he is one year older and although has been "decent" we need a quality left back. Or at least a quality back up, moving Taylor isn't the best option imvho.
JOB ~ same as Linda
Demel ~ I'm honestly not sure he is the answer but must be better than Faubert
Collins ~ I have said elsewhere he would be worth a squad contract but we need a quality starter as watching the Spuds yesterday they desperately need a Tonka.
Diop ~ a bridge too far
Reid ~ bit hit and miss but would probably get better in the Fizzy one more time around
Tonka ~ offski to Spudski
Noble ~ I would offski were I him. He could have been our skipper this year but BFS brought in someone and paid him 55K. Me ? Looking elsewhere
Collison ~ so much expected and 2 bad injuries not sure he'll get back to what we thought we might see
Taylor ~ not as good as I expected and not fit enough long enough
O'Neill ~ solid if unspectacular especial if Nobles is off he'll be needed. Otherwise offers nothing different which we need
Va Te ~ I'd play him off the striker (but we know who's there) or, up top on his own
Carlton ~ well he isn't going to give us another 40 game season but I would keep him as a back up at least
Morrison ~ I bet he either stars for us next year, or as I said before ends up in jail
Nolan ~ 'nuff said

I see us having a tough time again next time around in the Fizzy.

If:
Cardiff If they don't go up going to be one year better
Leeds ditto
Leics starting maybe to put things together a bit too little too late
Brum if they don't go up with reinforcements plus another year with Hughton...........
Brighton will be better equipped
Boro see Cardiff and Leeds
Blackpool an enigma

Now any of the 3 coming down don't worry me as much as this little lot.

So I think next year isn't going to be a walk in the park either.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby bubbles1966 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:07 pm

Think you're worrying unnecessarily Oust....

1) Most of our players aren't significantly better (if at all) than those at the clubs 4-9 now;

2) Scouts won't restrict their viewing to West Ham players. Players like Snodgrass, Clayton, Whittingham, Redmond, Matt Phillips at chief competitors are likely to be as in demand as Noble and Collison..... so everyone else will get depleted too (all this years top 6 did last summer)

3) The quality in this league - even at the top - isn't Premier League in the way a lot of people commonly mean it - i.e. good enough to play for a consistently top 8-10 team (lots of yo-yo standard players as well as clubs).

If you get a chance check out the wiki list of PFA Team of the Year in the Championship over the last decade.

There's rarely more than a couple of "premier league" players in it... it's largely made up of journeymen, 2nd level players who have, or are, flopping at the top and ex-PL pros whose careers are winding down.

The "class" requirement to win this league is pretty low.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:28 pm

****ing hell, Ouston.

Remind me to invite you to my birthday party...
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby hammer1975 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:35 pm

Hockley Hammer wrote:Cuenca

What worries me that we are starting to see the makings of a side with some viable alternatives, but failure to get promoted may result in the owners looking to cash in on a few.

The obvious ones are Green, Tomkins and Noble, with possibly Collison.

Most of the others will not attract premier league values, but this group could.



my fear too HH.
I know a few posters often accuse people of claret and blue specs and academy nepotism but i think most of us have a special hope that our own young players come through and go on to form a key part of the team. how good would it be to see noble, tomkins and collison help take us into the prem and establish us as a top ten side. some will say they aren't good enough but just like my dreams and all that (and I do think they are good enough - tomkins and collison defo and noble as long as the right complementary players are in the line up)
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:03 pm

bubbs

In one case we do need an upgrade in those positions that I mention going up or staying down.

It may well be that those teams get depleted as well but I think we will need at least to replace Faye and Diop for sure. Up or down.

Linda could do a job but we need a back up although if we kept Collins that would work but then another CB even if Tonka stayed.
Right back ? Demel ? Not sure. Maybe if he could stay fit, JOB could move to DM but we still need a.n. other for cover.

We have struggled defensively when either JOB and/or Linda have been hurt and who remembers Linda playing CB ? or RB ?

Not going to work full time.

RARS

Wouldn't want to come to your party you wouldn't have the right kind of decent beer !!!!

:wink:

And all of these are only discussions. I am not a harbinger of doom. There are areas that I see as a must replace if we get promoted or not. And have needed to be for what 3 years ? Spector at LB ? Are you fkcuing kidding me ?
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Hockley Hammer on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:52 am

Cuenca

I agree with most of your assessment of players, but I believe there is a core of a side forming around

Green/Henderson
McCartney
Tomkins
Reid
Faye
Nolan
Noble
O'Neil
Vaz Te

(Any two out of the three centre backs)

Add JOB, Collins,Collison,Taylor,Cole, Maynard & Baldock and I think we have the foundations of a very decent squad for the Championship.

Promotion changes everything, but there is the basis of a squad there.

Like a few others losing Noble, Tomkins and Collison might not be the end of the world from a football perspective but it rings a fundamental change at this club in that there will be hardly any if at all home grown established players in the first team. Now that is one of the few West Ham traditions I am in favour of keeping.

I think the championship will be very competetive again next season, but I think the team/squad we are finishing with is better balanced than the one we started with.

Part of me wants to stay in this division and put together a team that will look towards the future, but with the prize still up for grabs I want us to win every game to avoid disappointment.
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Re: Captain Kevin Nolan

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:29 pm

HH

Although I "discuss" who might or might not stay/leave it is merely a discussion and even though I think we will struggle next season in the PL for the sake of keeping what "could" be a decent core of "home grown" talent I hope we go up.

Noble will never be mistaken for Fabregas, but I think when we struggled in the Tevez-gate season he showed what he can do with some decent players around him (not that we are likely to find an Argie forward to "help" our cause again).

I don't think we have another season with Faye I really don't. As a back up, but not as a starter, he seems to be creaking a bit towards the end of the season when we need it the most. Maybe just a blip on the radar. Diop won't do another season, he couldn't last this one. So I think there are two significant upgrades there, stay or move up.

Cole ? I wasn't one of those who thought he would tear the arse out of this league (and I never in a million thought that Piq would either). I honestly would look at Vaz Te up top with Taylor wide and Linda at LB but again stay or go, we seriously need and upgrade there. We might fudge another season in the Fizzy with our RB but an upgrade in the PL.

Like most teams of course promotion some new signings and we would see a spark or life (until we kick off away to Citeh, home to ManYoo and away to Chel$ki and Spuds for our first 4 games)

:lol:

RARS

I'm not being suicidal ~ au contraire.

lolz
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