Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Sloop John B on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:16 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:I'm not surprised that Pinky hasn't offered his proverbial £ to buy the club


ARF!! But I think it was a literal pound he offered...
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:35 pm

Well they don't want Miller (seemingly the only "viable" bidder left) they only want the Blue Knights who seemingly at this stage don't want them.

They feel the administrators are in cahoots with Whyte (aren't they though responsible to the Courts ? I don't know) and that some rich fan will ride in on a white (pun intended) charger and rescue them from liquidation.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Wembley1966 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:47 pm

Seems as though the Rangers fans have had enough of Duff & Phelps (the administrators) dragging their heels and wasting money - so D & P's staff phone list and email addresses have been published in a number of forums and they've been encouraged to contact them to complain.

That's quite a few more D & P people going to have to start billing Rangers for their time dealing with the complaints!
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Isn't it the case that the administrators are responsible to the creditors for recovering as much of the debt as possible, even if it means liquidating the company?

Am I right in thinking that Rangers somehow managed to choose their own administrators, in the face of opposition from HMRC?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:44 pm

It might be covered elsewhere on here. I think either Pinky, Wembley or maybe QN explained it.

Whyte (not Rangers) chose the creditors. They were already involved with him, but one of the above mentioned (iirc) said that it not uncommon for a party to employ their own creditors who are though responsible to the court and not to Whyte.

Happens all the time (again iirc).

So it's not as though they are working for Whyte directly (although they may have his best interests at heart) but I don't think (and Gnome is our resident expert on these matters) it matters to them who buys or when they buy (within reason) as long as the best deal for the creditors is obtained.

I might have summed it up rightly (or knowing me, wrongly).

:oops:
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby York Ham(mer) on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:49 pm

The administrators have been asking for unconditional bids but I detect a couple of conditions in Miller's bid, not least Rangers being in the SPL next season and starting the season with no points deduction! Duff and Phelps seem to hold the view that if Miller was successful, Rangers would become a newco and have asked the Blue Knights consortium to make another offer.

And still we wait for the outcome of the Big Tax Case. What a mess.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:44 pm

So Miller says that all the other stuff can go out of the window.

Bilk everyone for money, get a club for 11M quid and suffer no penalties ??

Is he off his fkcuing rocker ???
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby the pink palermo on Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:02 am

Wembley1966 wrote:It's a charade!

I'm not surprised that Pinky hasn't offered his proverbial £ to buy the club - the liabilities could be £150m.


The complexities of who owns what and who owes what are such that no sensible valuation could be made , and the administrators know this , so a charade is spot on .There never was any real prospect of a bid coming in that would create any value for the creditors as a going concern .Put simply , the club is worth more dead than alive .

Liquidation beckons .

Celtics transfer activitiy in the summer should be interesting .Why fund a payroll four times higher than what will then be your next nearest competitor ( Hearts ) ?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:22 pm

In the hypothetical scenario (I've checked, this isn't The Snug) that a deal is done to sell Rangers as a going concern for a small sum, do the creditors have any comeback if they agree with Pinky that they would get more of the money owing to them if the club was liquidated?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Swiss Pauli on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:59 pm

the pink palermo wrote:Celtics transfer activitiy in the summer should be interesting .Why fund a payroll four times higher than what will then be your next nearest competitor ( Hearts ) ?

The answer: qualifying for the champions league groups stages.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Was it last, or maybe this, the winners of the SPL play qualifying matches ??
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Diogenes on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:37 pm

Rangers are 'dead man walking'. In any other business scenario they would have been dead and buried ages ago, like a lot of clubs. Even the people bidding for them are generally sharks, cowboys and ambulance chasers. Feel for the supporters and there but for the grace of god etc................ If it were anyone other than Rangers (or Celtic) in Scotland it would be all over by now, but 'politically; I can't see them being allowed to go under, which is good news for the supporters but perhaps bad news for everyone else.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:15 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:So Miller says that all the other stuff can go out of the window.

Bilk everyone for money, get a club for 11M quid and suffer no penalties ??

Is he off his fkcuing rocker ???

It would appear to be the only scenario in which anyone is willing to put in a genuine bid. The situation appears to defy analysis so someone has to come forward who's willing to take on the risk. They'd be a mug if they did - they're looking for a billionaire diehard Rangers fan who really doesn't care about the money. Do any exist? We're talking about Scotsmen and money here....
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Glory Hunter on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:32 pm

I'm not sure I understand much of what's going on up there, but this thread makes for fascinating reading so thanks to you knowledgeable chaps for keeping us posted.

Once the dust has settled you should write a book, I for one would but it. :thup:
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Wembley1966 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:35 pm

GH - the real info comes from http://www.rangerstaxcase.com. What started out as a blog by someone that had some information about what was really going on at Rangers, but the newspapers didn't want to publish has tuned into a full analysis and commentary by some of the finest experts on HMRC tax investigations; companies in administration; employee benefits trusts; the rules of the SFA, SPL and UEFA (that the SFA and SPL don't really understand themselves!); the management of charitable trusts (Rangers Legends played a benefit match against AC Milan legends last month and money was diverted from charities to Rangers!); guys that value sports stadia for a living, and insolvency practitioners amongst other experts that frequent the website.

The author appears to have a lot more information that they are drip-feeding into their blog at appropriate times. Good examples of timing have been when it was suggested that Campbell Ogilvie - the former Rangers director and Company Secretary and now President of the SFA not only knew about the EBTs and payments to players and staff that were not in contracts lodged with the SFA/SPL, but was a beneficiary himself. Forced to admit it (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9144140/Campbell-Ogilvie-admits-he-was-aware-of-Rangers-EBT-scheme-but-had-no-role-in-player-contracts.html) he said that he benefited no more than the cost of a good night out - a few days later he retracted it when rangerstaxcase published that he had an EBT loan of over £90,000 that did not need paying back.

They're waiting for people to either deny involvement or implicate themselves before publishing further revelations.

Extract from The Guardian interview with the (anonymous) author:
Rangerstaxcase.com has become a platform for some of the sharpest minds and most accomplished professionals to share information, debate, and form opinions based upon a rational interpretation of the facts rather than PR-firm fabrications. In all of the years when the mainstream media had a monopoly on opinion forming and agenda setting, the more sentient football fan had no outlet for his or her opinions. Blogs and other modern media, like Twitter, have democratised information distribution. Rangerstaxcase.com has gone far beyond its half-baked "I know a secret" origins to become a forum for citizen journalism. The power of the crowd‑sourced investigation initiated by anyone who is able to ignite the interest of others is a force that has the potential to move mountains in our society. All that is required is an issue about which others are passionate and feel unheard.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/17/scotland-media-rangers


He or she will be writing the book - but in the meantime there is much more to come out.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:23 am

And the fans want the ISP to provide a name and address because the author is obviously a Tim and is only doing this to "destroy" Rangers. Although there are a few who read the originals post and that they we all "poo pooing" the idea initially.

There is no doubt that the big two up there "control" what's written. I wonder how much influence the "big three or four" in England have ?
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:31 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:GH - the real info comes from http://www.rangerstaxcase.com.

Quite an interesting read. If I were a Rangers fan at this point I think I'd rather the club went into liquidation and re-started honestly from a lower position, wiping the slate clean. If the Tevez case was worth £25 million for a single club relegated for a single season, who knows what 10 years worth of Rangers running dodgy contracts would end up being worth? They should be sued into oblivion on that basis alone which they obviously could not afford.

Just get it over with.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:36 pm

QuintonNimoy wrote:....................
Quite an interesting read. If I were a Rangers fan at this point I think I'd rather the club went into liquidation and re-started honestly from a lower position, wiping the slate clean............................


Reading the responses to this excellent article many of them do. The main push for keeping Rangers in the SPL seems to be coming from the other clubs who want to keep their two big paydays.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby QuintonNimoy on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Reading the responses to this excellent article many of them do. The main push for keeping Rangers in the SPL seems to be coming from the other clubs who want to keep their two big paydays.

Hmm, I'm not convinced of that, but if it is true then it simply confirms the irrelevancy of Scottish football if the other clubs are willing to openly entertain blatant cheating from their rivals in order to line their pockets. Puts other leagues with a reputation for corruption in the shade really.
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Re: Rangers in administration (Non WHU)

Postby simon hammer on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:56 pm

Glory Hunter wrote:I'm not sure I understand much of what's going on up there, but this thread makes for fascinating reading so thanks to you knowledgeable chaps for keeping us posted.


Seconded. The one thing this thread really highlights for me is that we are blessed to have some people with great depth of knowledge on this forum. Most of this thread is way above my understanding on such matters, but I've been able to keep up with things due to the knowledge and, more importantly, the ability of posters to put things in such a way as to be understandable by the likes of me.

:thup:
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