Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Iron-worx on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:21 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote:I do tend to miss out on the OS threads as little changes. But it is good to see my beloved, "We could be them" Berlin still get a mention.

I would just like to say, Berlin is the Capital of the only European Country that has a top tier average attendance higher than the EPL, and Hertha is the only MAJOR club in a city with a Metropolitan population over 4.5 million.


I'll reiterate a point already made....

Because something works for Hertha in Berlin does not necessarily mean that it will work in London for West Ham, there are too many peripheral factors involved to predict one way or another on that ....

But it does mean that it does work as a general concept, therefore there are no inherent factors that mean that it won't work in London for West Ham.

Emphasis here on the difference between inherent factors (Stadium itself, etc) and peripheral factors (Transport etc)
,
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Sweeney Bod on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:46 am

Iron-worx wrote:
I'll reiterate a point already made....

Because something works for Hertha in Berlin does not necessarily mean that it will work in London for West Ham, there are too many peripheral factors involved to predict one way or another on that ....

But it does mean that it does work as a general concept, therefore there are no inherent factors that mean that it won't work in London for West Ham.

Emphasis here on the difference between inherent factors (Stadium itself, etc) and peripheral factors (Transport etc)
,


To reiterate my position. I am firmly in opposition to the OS and have been since day one. Berlin has became a bit of a joke with me purely because every now and then people would use the Berlin Stadium to prove how it could work at West Ham.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Iron-worx on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:08 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote:
To reiterate my position. I am firmly in opposition to the OS and have been since day one. Berlin has became a bit of a joke with me purely because every now and then people would use the Berlin Stadium to prove how it could work at West Ham.


But I hope that wouldn't include me because what my post says is that while it works in Berlin it may or may not work in London dependent on peripheral factors....

However that it does work in Berlin proves that there's nothing inherently terminal about the concept that means that it definitely won't work in other places.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Sweeney Bod on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:32 pm

Iron-worx wrote:
But I hope that wouldn't include me because what my post says is that while it works in Berlin it may or may not work in London dependent on peripheral factors....

However that it does work in Berlin proves that there's nothing inherently terminal about the concept that means that it definitely won't work in other places.


I think that has to do with tolerance. Hertha have played at the OS since 1963. Unlike the UK, Germany went down the route of multi-use stadiums, especially in the 70s. Most of the Bundesliga had tracked Stadiums. However, this proved to be unpopular. Now most of these clubs have built new rectangular stadiums, or have converted their stadiums without a track. Due to the history, and architectual importance of the Berlin OS, remodelling the stadium is out of the question. However, when Hertha had had periods of low attendance, they have moved to smaller stadiums within Berlin.

Yes, there is nothing inherently terminal about the concept, but there is nothing inherently terminal about an NFL team playing at a Baseball Park, the simple fact is it is not what the fans want, and it is not ideal.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby dapablo on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:58 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote: the simple fact is it is not what the fans want, and it is not ideal.


But that doesn't mean it's still not the best option for the club.

I still see people also complaining that it will change the match day experience so they wouldn't go, that I assume means if West Ham won the lottery and built a new stadia off the cuff they wouldn't go either, "it would change the experience", disigenuous.

If is a financial decision to be made by the current owners of the club and not one to be made based on emotional feedback from the fans.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby IronMaiden123 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:08 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote:I think that has to do with tolerance. Hertha have played at the OS since 1963. Unlike the UK, Germany went down the route of multi-use stadiums, especially in the 70s. Most of the Bundesliga had tracked Stadiums. However, this proved to be unpopular. Now most of these clubs have built new rectangular stadiums, or have converted their stadiums without a track.


This is also true of Spain and Italy. Italy in particular had a lot of Serie A and B clubs playing at municipal multi-use stadia with athletics tracks. Whilst there are still some the continuing trend - eg Cagliari, Lecce, Fiorentina, Sienna, Turino/Juventus, Palermo - has been to either move out to new purpose built football grounds or remove the track and redevelop where that is possible . It seems that only we are fool enough to want to buck the trend.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Iron-worx on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:21 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote:I think that has to do with tolerance. Hertha have played at the OS since 1963. Unlike the UK, Germany went down the route of multi-use stadiums, especially in the 70s. Most of the Bundesliga had tracked Stadiums. However, this proved to be unpopular. Now most of these clubs have built new rectangular stadiums, or have converted their stadiums without a track. Due to the history, and architectual importance of the Berlin OS, remodelling the stadium is out of the question. However, when Hertha had had periods of low attendance, they have moved to smaller stadiums within Berlin.

Yes, there is nothing inherently terminal about the concept, but there is nothing inherently terminal about an NFL team playing at a Baseball Park, the simple fact is it is not what the fans want, and it is not ideal.


That's a good post, lots of fact and sound interpretation - I believe that Hertha moved once due to a period of low attendance 1986-89 when they slipped down into the third tier (ridiculous size of stadium for a third division club) and twice due to refurbs1975 and 2000-04, plus some obviously to be low attended matches on one off bases....

I agree that an athletics stadium is not ideal for a football club, but I have to balance that with the options which are not really anything beyond staying at the Boleyn or moving to the OS...

I do think that the OS given modifications and an agreeable tenancy, both things which I think are likely due to the desire to let the stadium, could make for a better overall package than staying at the Boleyn all beauty spots and warts of both options considered....

That's why I'm reservedly in favour of a move pending on knowing exactly what the modifications and tenancy will be given that the stadium is awarded to us which I think it extremely likely to be.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Sweeney Bod on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:33 pm

dapablo wrote:
But that doesn't mean it's still not the best option for the club.

I still see people also complaining that it will change the match day experience so they wouldn't go, that I assume means if West Ham won the lottery and built a new stadia off the cuff they wouldn't go either, "it would change the experience", disigenuous.

If is a financial decision to be made by the current owners of the club and not one to be made based on emotional feedback from the fans.


It is a common misconception that those opposed to the OS would be opposed to any move. If we moved to a purpose built stadium I would be the first in the queue to renew my season ticket.

If the move to the OS proves to be a financial success, and we are filling it every week and people are clamouring for Champions League tickets, I will be happy for the club. I am not one to cut off my nose to spite my face. However, I doubt it will be the major change in our fortunes that the official line portrays. I have explained my reasoning for this many times in the past

As for me as a person. I have said many times that I will give it a go. IF the matchday experience is not something I will enjoy then I will simply not go. I am too old to care whether people on an online forum think I am plastic or not for deciding to end my physical and financial support of the team.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Iron-worx on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:36 pm

IronMaiden123 wrote:
This is also true of Spain and Italy. Italy in particular had a lot of Serie A and B clubs playing at municipal multi-use stadia with athletics tracks. Whilst there are still some the continuing trend - eg Cagliari, Lecce, Fiorentina, Sienna, Turino/Juventus, Palermo - has been to either move out to new purpose built football grounds or remove the track and redevelop where that is possible . It seems that only we are fool enough to want to buck the trend.


We don't know exactly what any of those clubs options were, but it seems certain that they at least had options to move and or redevelop without too much restriction else they couldn't have done what they did....

We don't have either of those options, we're broke so cant move anywhere other than the OS and planning restrictions scupper any worthwhile redevelopment of the Boleyn....

For us its stay at the Boleyn much as it is or move to the OS and nothing beyond that....

So none of that is comparison by anybodies stretch of the imagination because if we had the options open to those clubs then I'm sure we'd rather build a purpose built football stadium or rebuild our own stadium without restriction too.

For us to a great extent beggars can't be choosers.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Sweeney Bod on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Iron-worx wrote:
That's a good post, lots of fact and sound interpretation - I believe that Hertha moved once due to a period of low attendance 1986-89 when they slipped down into the third tier (ridiculous size of stadium for a third division club) and twice due to refurbs1975 and 2000-04, plus some obviously to be low attended matches on one off bases....

I agree that an athletics stadium is not ideal for a football club, but I have to balance that with the options which are not really anything beyond staying at the Boleyn or moving to the OS...

I do think that the OS given modifications and an agreeable tenancy, both things which I think are likely due to the desire to let the stadium, could make for a better overall package than staying at the Boleyn all beauty spots and warts of both options considered....

That's why I'm reservedly in favour of a move pending on knowing exactly what the modifications and tenancy will be given that the stadium is awarded to us which I think it extremely likely to be.


I can empathise with the final lines.

Sadly I do think us regular spectators are increasingly becoming more like "filmed before a live studio audience". The financial input from us is becoming less and less important. TV and corporate money is the big money, especially the worldwide market.

For every Blue Chip company that Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal get in their corporate facilities, we get Arkwright's Builders, and Fred's Fish & Chip Emporium. The past two seasons, I have enjoyed some time in the corporate lounges of West Ham..mainly because the offers have been so cheap. We are really percieved as a "blue collar" parochial club from the wrong side of London. You are more likely to have a table next to a former face of the ICF than a senior manager of ICI.

Will this change when we move to the OS? I am not so sure. I knew Ms Brady has been making a lot of advances to the Corporate World of Canary Wharf, Perhaps the OS will be more attractive to a corporate booker than Green St.

Will the move be more attractive to a worldwide audience? Again perhaps, but if we want to be more attractive, why not go the whole hog and change our name to Olympica London?
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Sweeney Bod on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Iron-worx wrote:


For us its stay at the Boleyn much as it is or move to the OS and nothing beyond that....

.


Sorry if it seems as if I am picking on your points, but it is rare to have someone argue a fairly pro-stance with such intelligence.

History has taught us that things can change dramatically in time. If someone had told me, as I watched Bonds hold up the cup in 1980, that in 5 years time our attendances would crash to anything between 2/3s or 1/2 of what they were at that point, or that in 10 years we would be looking at all seater stadiums, I would think them mad.

One of the trouble with moving to OS is that it does in effect take away all options for a long period of time. The lease is so long, we are handcuffed to what we agreed in 2012. At least as long as we stay at the Boleyn we have the potential for options. This "potential" may fade like the proverbial bubbles, but there will always be potential.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Hammer110 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:14 pm

Sweeney Bod wrote:As for me as a person. I have said many times that I will give it a go. IF the matchday experience is not something I will enjoy then I will simply not go. I am too old to care whether people on an online forum think I am plastic or not for deciding to end my physical and financial support of the team.


That makes you more of a fan than those who say they will never go to the O/S, the fact is no one pro, anti or neutral can really know what the match day experience is going to be like, even if the conversion is all everything we could dream of, so all that can be done (assuming we get it) is try it and see.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby IronMaiden123 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:04 pm

Hammer110 wrote:That makes you more of a fan than those who say they will never go to the O/S, the fact is no one pro, anti or neutral can really know what the match day experience is going to be like, even if the conversion is all everything we could dream of, so all that can be done (assuming we get it) is try it and see.


If the 'conversion' was 50% of what you seem to think is possible then it will be worth giving the OS every support. With all the evidence which has passed in front of our noses the reality looks more like 5%. Who knows though post 2017?
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby freddies shears on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:49 pm

Very similar to Almeria after med games. They inherited a stadium with a running track and i have been several times whilst visiting friend who live there. And i can honestly say that the distance to the pitch is enormous unless the action is in the half you are sat in. everytime the ball went to the far end of the pitch people turned round to watch the big screen. I say bollox to that and so did they but like us they also had no choice. I can honestly say that if we move to the o/s it will kill our club rather than build it.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Pop Robson on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:17 pm

freddies shears wrote:Very similar to Almeria after med games. They inherited a stadium with a running track and i have been several times whilst visiting friend who live there. And i can honestly say that the distance to the pitch is enormous unless the action is in the half you are sat in. everytime the ball went to the far end of the pitch people turned round to watch the big screen. I say bollox to that and so did they but like us they also had no choice. I can honestly say that if we move to the o/s it will kill our club rather than build it.


The atmosphere will be nil compared to the the BG, both ends closed off because they are too far from the pitch !!!

Espanyol's new ground is more like what we need, 60,000 for chelsea maybe, not us.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Napoleon Solo on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:03 pm

The bottom line is, West Ham United will be moving to the Olympic Stadium whether the fans like it or not.
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby bobcar on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:20 am

James P wrote:London mayor Ken Livingstone said major football clubs such as West Ham would not be able to become tenants.

He said: "We made a commitment there would be a permanent athletics facility and we have honoured that commitment.

"For West Ham, we have identified a site much better-suited to their needs."


What does that mean?
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby hadleighhammer on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:20 pm

bobcar wrote:What does that mean?


We're not moving to the OS after all. :D
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby gavrosh on Tue May 01, 2012 1:10 pm

[/quote]We're not moving to the OS after all. :D[/quote]

You do know that quote was sometime around 2006 when they were planning to go to the parcelforce site?
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Re: Espanyol's Olympic Stadium

Postby Pop Robson on Tue May 01, 2012 1:28 pm

Maybe he'll be saying it again soon !
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