WHU's View? poll result

All you need to know about West Ham United FC's potential move to Stratford.

Moderators: Romford, Rio, Gnome, Northern Paulo, Lost Hammer, bonehead, chalks, goes2eleven, Alf Garnett's (Ex) Missus, bristolhammerfc, Wheels, sicknote

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby MEM on Tue May 15, 2012 11:02 pm

Hammer110 wrote: quote="Iron-worx"Not having all the information to hand is a structural factor that means that no poll can be held on the matter currently however well it might be conducted....

It is possible to say No right now - Provided that the person saying No can see at least one totally dealbreaking factor that they are totally convinced cannot be addressed by anything amongst what isn't known....

It is not possible to say Yes right now - Because even if everything that is known is fine and dandy then there could still be something amongst what isn't known that is a dealbreaker....

How is it possible to hold a poll in which it is possible to say No, but not possible to say Yes without betraying that you couldn't have considered the matter properly ?


Agree this poll was based purely on the "Worst Case" scenario and as as stated elsewhere on this forum that some on here have thrown their toys out of the pram because West Ham have not offered them the privilege of providing commercially in confidence information to them knowing full well it would compromise our bid.
MEM
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:41 pm

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby Doc H Ball on Tue May 15, 2012 11:29 pm

MEM wrote: Agree this poll was based purely on the "Worst Case" scenario.


'Based on all available information do you agree with West Ham United's proposed move to the O.S.'?

Is that the worst case scenario?
User avatar
Doc H Ball
 
Posts: 5475
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: in nick

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby paulhs1 on Wed May 16, 2012 9:43 am

MEM wrote:Agree this poll was based purely on the "Worst Case" scenario and as as stated elsewhere on this forum that some on here have thrown their toys out of the pram because West Ham have not offered them the privilege of providing commercially in confidence information to them knowing full well it would compromise our bid.


Who has thrown their toys out of their pram? Perhaps I am mis reading your comments but are you suggesting that the whusview poll was carried out because whusview members were not shown 'commercially confidential plans'?
User avatar
paulhs1
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:32 pm
Location: Just north of the Thames

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby Iron-worx on Wed May 16, 2012 1:32 pm

MEM wrote:Agree this poll was based purely on the "Worst Case" scenario and as as stated elsewhere on this forum that some on here have thrown their toys out of the pram because West Ham have not offered them the privilege of providing commercially in confidence information to them knowing full well it would compromise our bid.


I thought that it was the awarding authorities that imposed the confidentiality clause, not WHU not wishing to disclose commercially sensitive information although that plausibly may also be the case....

I stand to be corrected but I don't think that WHU are able to offer information covered by the confidentiality clause even if they wanted to....

Given the rambunctious history of the award process I can well understand why the authorities imposed a confidentiality clause....

While that confidentiality clause is in place it simply isn't possible to vote Yes in a poll without betraying that you cannot have considered the matter properly, therefore it isn't possible to hold a Yes / No poll.
User avatar
Iron-worx
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Rebuilding Lady Garrets Tower

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby paulhs1 on Wed May 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Iron-worx wrote:While that confidentiality clause is in place it simply isn't possible to vote Yes in a poll without betraying that you cannot have considered the matter properly, therefore it isn't possible to hold a Yes / No poll.


But do you think it fair for the club to quote fictitous and outdated polls stating that the fans are in favour as well as 100% of SAB members that saw the plans?
User avatar
paulhs1
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:32 pm
Location: Just north of the Thames

Re: WHU'S VIEW POLL RESULT

Postby Iron-worx on Wed May 16, 2012 5:54 pm

paulhs1 wrote:
But do you think it fair for the club to quote fictitous and outdated polls stating that the fans are in favour as well as 100% of SAB members that saw the plans?


I suspect that the clubs view is that this isn't a democracy it's a business, and why should those who don't even know all of the details be able to say either yes or no even if it were one - That would certainly be my view if I'd bought a football club lets say as opposed to a supermarket or petrol station which wouldn't poll its customers if it were considering a move.
User avatar
Iron-worx
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Rebuilding Lady Garrets Tower

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby Hammer110 on Wed May 16, 2012 6:02 pm

Even in a democracy you don't get much say in what is done only who does it once every 4-5 years.
User avatar
Hammer110
 
Posts: 2489
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:56 pm
Location: Dreaming 父 父

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby adie on Wed May 16, 2012 6:47 pm

a football club isn't a business like a supermarket is it ? And don't forget Gold & Sullivan aren't the real owners, the fans own the club they just own the debt, that's their words not mine. You wouldn't move your supermarket to where your customers don't want to go would you ? Under football rules if a club wants to move ground they are supposed to do a full consultation of fans like what Everton done, like I said football isn't like an ordinary business.
adie
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:30 pm

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby WHUTerry on Wed May 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:You assume that if the bid is accepted there can then be a vote before contracts are signed. When we met Brady she said the same and we agreed to hold off any poll. Then, following the meeting, the Club sent us an e mail specifically retracting that and saying that 'the outcome will be decided' when the preferred bidder was chosen. Any ballot after the decision has been made is irrelevant and any definition of 'consultation'  is that it precedes rather than follows the decision making process.


What you're saying seems to be contrary to what a club spokesman said in a report yesterday,
"It remains the club’s belief that a poll of any description at this time would not be beneficial as we are unable to share all of the necessary information about our bid with supporters due to the constraints of the process.
West Ham United remains committed to extensive supporter consultation, including an official poll representative of all supporters, once we are permitted to share our vision for the Stadium."

The LLDC and its predecessor the OPLC have continually said that the club cannot release any details of the bid. As we know via a recent WHUFC press release, the club have tried to get permission to release information but have been continually pushed back.

Doc H Ball wrote:Fair enough. WHTID's vote was about 40% for, 40% against and 20% unsure as I recall which is hardly a ringing endorsement. The same logic applies to the OLAS, KUMB and Newham Recorder polls all of which show heavy votes against the move.


The point is though that it demonstrates the volatility of these types of polls.

Doc H Ball wrote:I didn't know you couldn't comment on line, I thought you could. That accounted for about 20% of the vote out of interest. There was some debate about a range of questions that could be put and we took the feedback from those who had registered on that as we felt we should. The majority, for right or wrong, wanted a straight Yes/No/Comments in the end. I repeat, we asked the Club to send out a full questionnaire and were never equipped to do a proper survey ourselves.


I guess though that a majority of registrants aren't keen on the move. Fair comment? If I was if that opinion, the only answer I'd want on there is no, counterbalanced with a yes option. This is where it gets tricky, because I think that a lot of no's are voting that way because they simply don't want to move, which is fair enough. People will think the way the question is phrased means a yes vote essentially means voting for an athletics stadium. I think a lot of people are in the 'yes if' category. Yes if we can get retractable seating; yes if we can a decent slice of the naming rights; yes if the stadium can be made to feel like our home, etc. I think this is where a additional options would have given a clearer picture of people's thoughts (doesn't need to be anymore than that and certainly not a detailed survey. I didn't vote because there wasn't an option for me, not even a don't know.

Doc H Ball wrote:Loaded question? 'Based on all available information do you believe that W.H. should move to the O.S.?' Really?


See answer above. How can you vote yes when you don't know what you're voting for. Yes to what?

Doc H Ball wrote:Would you describe sitting 40 people down in confidence, showing them a mock up, having a vote of hands based on 'if it looked like that would you want it?' and then reporting it as 100% of fans being in favour of a move counts as being 'loaded' or not?


It was a bit more than that. The discussion was really positive and everyone got to ask relevant questions. To simply say we were shown a mock-up and everyone said yes please frankly isn't true. The yes vote was based on a wide range of things that came out of the debate. At the end of that debate the vote was then made and it was almost unanimous. 

Doc H Ball wrote:I have yet to hear an explanation from the SAB as a body as to how they feel about their meeting being used by the Club. You know you are quoted in the bid as being proof of 'consultation' and of fan support for the move don't you?


We don't speak as a body. We individually collected feedback. We're not an elected body and don't have an elected leader. The SAB is essentially a market research tool. I think this does underline though the sad lack of a HISA type group that could fill the void you're talking about. Reading reports it does seem that Karren Brady has qualified her statements by saying that the SAB offered overwhelming support once she had explained the vision for the OS.

Doc H Ball wrote:Also what happened to your 'Report'? At least we've published ours..


It was a feedback tool given to the club which hopefully they've taken on board in terms of what they seek to negotiate with the LLDC. Only time will tell. I don't think, because of some of its contents it could have been released to the public, especially as it was born out of a confidential-based process.
User avatar
WHUTerry
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:24 pm
Location: Epping

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby adie on Wed May 16, 2012 10:39 pm

so Terry as a member of the SAB you voted yes based on lots of if's and hopefully's, great. And am I right in saying almost unanimous is 100% ?
adie
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:30 pm

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby WHUTerry on Thu May 17, 2012 8:03 am

adie wrote:so Terry as a member of the SAB you voted yes based on lots of if's and hopefully's, great. And am I right in saying almost unanimous is 100% ?


Not sure if 100% is almost unanimous. I'll Google it and come back to you.
User avatar
WHUTerry
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:24 pm
Location: Epping

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby Iron-worx on Fri May 18, 2012 12:31 pm

adie wrote:a football club isn't a business like a supermarket is it ? And don't forget Gold & Sullivan aren't the real owners, the fans own the club they just own the debt, that's their words not mine. You wouldn't move your supermarket to where your customers don't want to go would you ? Under football rules if a club wants to move ground they are supposed to do a full consultation of fans like what Everton done, like I said football isn't like an ordinary business.


The fans don't own the club, they may or may not pay to go to see matches, you've fallen for owners spiel....

I might well move a supermarket to where I thought was a likely to have more customers than I currently have location even if I knew with absolute certainty that none of my present customers would go there. As a business owner it makes not one jot of difference exactly which individual customers you have provided that you do have customers.
User avatar
Iron-worx
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Rebuilding Lady Garrets Tower

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby brownout on Tue May 22, 2012 9:31 am

Talksport this morning -
Tony Gale spoke (from yesterday) very anti move. Quoted WHU's VIEW? poll.
David Gold said other surveys show more than 50% want to go - so where are these surveys?
User avatar
brownout
 
Posts: 6687
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:26 pm

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby IronMaiden123 on Tue May 22, 2012 11:00 am

brownout wrote:Talksport this morning -
Tony Gale spoke (from yesterday) very anti move. Quoted WHU's VIEW? poll.
David Gold said other surveys show more than 50% want to go - so where are these surveys?


The boards determination to ignore reality, make stuff up and plough on regardless would have me worried even if I was in favour of the move.
IronMaiden123
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:49 am

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby HarrowInnHammer on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:34 pm

Did anything come of this in the end?
What was the club's response?
User avatar
HarrowInnHammer
 
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Trevor Brooking Lower

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby brownout on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:56 pm

The club received a copy of the poll report showing 87% opposed the move, as did the LLDC, Mayor, FA, media etc. We heard nothing more from the club - their invitations to meet suddenly dried up.

The club had promised about a year ago that they would hold a poll before committing to a move and earlier this year when BBC London TV did a piece on our poll the club again said that it would poll fans.

Some people have always doubted whether the club would honour these promises and recent events suggest they may be correct.

Regardless of whether the stadium is the best football ground in the world or an athletics track, the club have a moral duty to consult supporters before making what will be perhaps the biggest decision in its history.
User avatar
brownout
 
Posts: 6687
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:26 pm

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby Denbighammer on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:52 pm

brownout wrote:Regardless of whether the stadium is the best football ground in the world or an athletics track, the club have a moral duty to consult supporters before making what will be perhaps the biggest decision in its history.

:thup: ......don't hold your breath though.
User avatar
Denbighammer
 
Posts: 8436
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:53 pm
Location: Dodging, Dipping, Diving, Ducking and Dodging.

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby eastsider on Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:33 am

[quote="adie"] You wouldn't move your supermarket to where your customers don't want to go would you ?

Look at the poll on this forum only 21% against the move, even the Liberal democrats would be dissapointed with that percentage!!!!
No, the poll on here is a good enough guide for anybody and considering this forums anti move stance I think the silent majority have had there say very nicely despite some bullying the pro posters !!!

About the anti move censors, funny thing is I had a previous post censored for using one smiley and my light hearted non abusive response totally deleted... it is funny that within a week or so of that happening we have new all smiley's on here!!! What is that all about????
I wont use one as it may upset somebody LOL !!!!!
User avatar
eastsider
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby EvilC on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:32 am

eastsider wrote:Look at the poll on this forum only 21% against the move, even the Liberal democrats would be dissapointed with that percentage!!!!
No, the poll on here is a good enough guide for anybody and considering this forums anti move stance I think the silent majority have had there say very nicely despite some bullying the pro posters !!!


Strange, I don't recall you being so keen to use previous polls to support your argument.
User avatar
EvilC
 
Posts: 7845
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...

Re: WHU's View? poll result

Postby the pink palermo on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:54 am

brownout wrote:Regardless of whether the stadium is the best football ground in the world or an athletics track, the club have a moral duty to consult supporters before making what will be perhaps the biggest decision in its history.


Brownout, the club are fully aware of the opposition of many current match goers to their proposed relocation of the club .

They know it , they've been told it by WHU'sview , told it in a detailed report by the SAB that canvassed many fans, and they've been told it on here - with the exception of the post Olympic games eurphoria poll .

The owners don't care .They want the stadium as it provides their exit strategy .

How many times have we heard David Gold refer to oil wells and rich foreigners ......

We won't get a vote, so from the moment they move to Stratford, they won't get my money .
User avatar
the pink palermo
Huge noggin
 
Posts: 27732
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: So will you bury my soul where the dust meets the sea

PreviousNext

Return to The Olympic Stadium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest