✍ Alex Král

The Forum for all football-related discussion, including West Ham United FC. Our busiest Forum and the place to begin if you're new to KUMB.

Moderators :  chalks, Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo

Post Reply
User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 13921
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 4 likes
Total likes: 21 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Aceface » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:18 pm

MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:39 am
You can heavily pad a stat like that though. Remember when the Chelsea central midfield pair played something like 60 passes between them in a match? If you do that and hit the odd pass like Kral you give the ball away just as much but the stats will say 92% success rate. Noble does this. Back and forth with the centre half, back and forth with the full backs and the odd loose one is lost in the rounding.

The Mullins vs Mascherano debate of old was littered with gems like this.

So yes we probably do agree I just don’t like using stats to prove anything as some people use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.
But in his position you *want* him to keep it simple. He's not a playmaker, so having simple passes to the keeper or the fullback is precisely what you want. "Padding it" doesn't have a negative connotation in this context because it means making the right decision for his role and abilities. It's no good winning the ball back 5 times in a match if fully one-third of your passes end up with the opposition – it's a net negative.

Happily, it should be an easy fix in the short-term because it requires NOT doing something rather than learning a new skill. Which is why I say we agree – that is as much a discipline and composure thing as it is to do with passing range.

No-one demands Soucek get more progressive with his passing, and rightly so. Everyone knows his limitations, and he works within them in a way that works for the team. That's what Kral will have to learn to do too over the next few months.

User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 17524
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 52 likes
Total likes: 19 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by MB » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:35 pm

Aceface wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:18 pm
But in his position you *want* him to keep it simple. He's not a playmaker, so having simple passes to the keeper or the fullback is precisely what you want. "Padding it" doesn't have a negative connotation in this context because it means making the right decision for his role and abilities. It's no good winning the ball back 5 times in a match if fully one-third of your passes end up with the opposition – it's a net negative.
But if you have Noble doing that already, don’t you want him doing something (slightly) different? We are a side best on the counter and playing pat-a-cake with the centre half doesn’t suit that style of play. Retaining the ball is important at times, but you need someone who will sometimes put their head up and ping it 30 yards without thinking. The key is the balance of that vs the risk of giving the ball away which is why I said it is similar to the Benrahma debate. Benrahma would give the ball away at the start of a transition which is the most dangerous time with how teams play now. I don’t remember a loose ball from Kral that had me go “oh god this is going to hurt”, but I remember a few of those from Benrahma in the early days which is why I think Moyes dropped him.

I don’t want Kral to become a poor man’s Noble, Rice or Soucek. I want him to be who he is, but a slightly derisked version compared to the (limited) sample I’ve seen so far.

So I think we do agree on the general point, but perhaps are looking at slightly different end points. I’m not willing to say he cannot play those balls just yet and if that clicks it makes him a great weapon whereas I think you’d be happy for him to be Mullins.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 13921
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 4 likes
Total likes: 21 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Aceface » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:28 pm

MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:35 pm
But if you have Noble doing that already, don’t you want him doing something (slightly) different?
No.

(And that's before getting into the fact that sitting deep to screen the defence and simply offloading the ball would *be* doing something differently to what Noble does).
MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:35 pm
It is similar to the Benrahma debate. Benrahma would give the ball away at the start of a transition which is the most dangerous time with how teams play now. I don’t remember a loose ball from Kral that had me go “oh god this is going to hurt”, but I remember a few of those from Benrahma in the early days which is why I think Moyes dropped him.
I don't understand how Benrahma is relevant to him – their roles, and the expectations within them, are entirely different. Benrahma is going to give the ball away more because he's expected to create goals, and plays in a position where it (usually) hurts less if it doesn't come off.
MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:35 pm
We are a side best on the counter and playing pat-a-cake with the centre half doesn’t suit that style of play.
Our best XI uses Rice and Soucek who don't play defence splitting passes. Do they not suit our style of play even though they were integral in creating it? Rice IS very good at advancing the ball through traffic with his running though, which is probably a more fruitful avenue for Kral to attempt to emulate going off early viewing.

The Straw
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:37 pm
Has liked: 3 likes
Total likes: 2 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by The Straw » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:34 pm

Looked a bit of a Robbie Savage (in a footballing sense rather than a d*ckhead sense). An awkward sort of spoiler. Might not be a bad thing. But that might be well wide off the mark as it's the only time we've had a good look at him!

FionnMac
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by FionnMac » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:44 pm

MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:35 pm
I don’t remember a loose ball from Kral that had me go “oh god this is going to hurt”, but I remember a few of those from Benrahma in the early days which is why I think Moyes dropped him.
Well that's strange because precisely that happened during the game on Wednesday. He had an incredibly heavy first touch in the first half and lost possession and it directly led to a shot for them.

I actually think he will do OK here, but as far as his first touch and passing goes, he seems severely limited from what I've seen (not just in the Man U game)

User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 17524
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 52 likes
Total likes: 19 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by MB » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:00 pm

Aceface wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:28 pm
Our best XI uses Rice and Soucek who don't play defence splitting passes. Do they not suit our style of play even though they were integral in creating it? Rice IS very good at advancing the ball through traffic with his running though, which is probably a more fruitful avenue for Kral to attempt to emulate going off early viewing.
They also don’t play keep ball and look bloody awkward when they try it.

In the absence of Rice you need a way of moving the ball up the field quickly. Maybe Kral can emulate that, but you are back in poor man’s… and the ball moves faster than the man.

It also doesn’t help when teams sit back when having something different wouldn’t hurt.

I’m just saying keep an open mind rather than say he has to do xyz like there is only one way to play certain roles.

User avatar
Alan Pardew's Dad
Posts: 1920
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Alan Pardew's Dad » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:34 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:37 pm
Looks like our new Michael Bolton lookalike could be very useful going forward!

Here's a photo of Alex celebrating at home after the match...

Image
Michael Bolton? With our owners he is more likely to be Michael Strap-on.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 13921
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 4 likes
Total likes: 21 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Aceface » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:39 pm

MB wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:00 pm
I’m just saying keep an open mind rather than say he has to do xyz like there is only one way to play certain roles.
:newthumb:

weymouth hammer
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:26 pm

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by weymouth hammer » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:52 pm

The unrelenting cnuting off of Kral continues, all those snide remarks, give the bloke a chance , try backing the player.

User avatar
StevePottsGoalsReel
Posts: 2126
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:05 am
Has liked: 24 likes
Total likes: 26 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:24 pm

FionnMac wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:44 pm
Well that's strange because precisely that happened during the game on Wednesday. He had an incredibly heavy first touch in the first half and lost possession and it directly led to a shot for them.

I actually think he will do OK here, but as far as his first touch and passing goes, he seems severely limited from what I've seen (not just in the Man U game)
If it's the incident I'm thinking of it, he was standing in acres of space near the centre circle, a big loopy throw landed right at his feet and he miscontrolled it and it span off sideways.

It's certainly possible that was poor technique, but I reckon it's much more likely it was a player on debut, in front of 72,000 people in a new country, with too much time to think and their nerves getting the better of them.

I wouldn't read too much into it personally - I remember Fornals getting slated for similar mistakes in his first few months too.

User avatar
simonirons
Posts: 6374
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Grandads a liar
Total likes: 4 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by simonirons » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:25 pm

I thought he looked alright.

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 1375
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 11 likes
Total likes: 15 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:31 pm

Key Passes leading to goals - 1
Mistakes leading to goals - 0

So far so good :)

larryberyl
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:48 am

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by larryberyl » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:34 pm

first game away at OT with 72k I thought he did well. started nervous but got better. need to give him a chance !
he is a hammer now so 100% support.

User avatar
Turns to Stone
Posts: 13989
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Tony Almeida
Has liked: 6 likes
Total likes: 30 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Turns to Stone » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:56 pm

His passing was definitely more Kouyate than Obiang, but I actually think for what we need he's going to be an excellent signing.

It also looked like he was trying to do a little too much yesterday. He just needs to settle down, keep reading the game well, nice simple passes for the first 15 mins and grow into the game slowly. I saw potential last night, and having Noble, Soucek and Rice to train with every day is only going to make him better.

Certainly a step up from Wilshere and Sanchez.
Last edited by Turns to Stone on Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ironing Board
Posts: 10574
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 am
Has liked: 10 likes
Total likes: 6 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Ironing Board » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:20 pm

Alan Pardew's Dad wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:34 pm
Michael Bolton? With our owners he is more likely to be Michael Strap-on.
:lol: :lol:

How Am I Supposed To Live Without You (And Your Sex Toys)

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 13921
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 4 likes
Total likes: 21 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Aceface » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:26 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:56 pm
Having Noble, Soucek and Rice to train with every day is only going to make him better.
The old version of Noble or the current demob-happy lunatic that was roaming around Old Trafford the other night?

Because that version is the most exciting footballer on the planet to watch at the moment.

He'll bundle you over, he'll lunge into slide tackles from a mile out, he doesn't give a toss about about grabbing two handfuls of your shirt in the penalty box even at Old Trafford, spiritual home of the soft penalty, he'll run on in the last minute to take a penalty, and you know what – he'll then miss it because f*** YOU that's why.

Got to start ahead of Rice for the rest of the season for me, I want to see where it goes.

User avatar
Korea Hammer
Posts: 8702
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:23 pm
Has liked: 18 likes
Total likes: 1 like

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Korea Hammer » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:23 pm

Aceface :smiler:

User avatar
hammer1975
Posts: 13901
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:16 pm
Has liked: 6 likes
Total likes: 7 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by hammer1975 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:50 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:56 pm
His passing was definitely more Kouyate than Obiang, but I actually think for what we need he's going to be an excellent signing.

It also looked like he was trying to do a little too much yesterday. He just needs to settle down, keep reading the game well, nice simple passes for the first 15 mins and grow into the game slowly. I saw potential last night, and having Noble, Soucek and Rice to train with every day is only going to make him better.

Certainly a step up from Wilshere and Sanchez.
:newthumb:
23 years old, plenty of growth with decent coaching too.

User avatar
Morocco Mole
Posts: 16564
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:31 pm
Location: Funky Nassau
Has liked: 5 likes
Total likes: 10 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by Morocco Mole » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:09 pm

Robbie Savagic

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 55126
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: .....said you was high class...that was just a lie
Has liked: 6 likes
Total likes: 26 likes

Re: ✍ Alex Král

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:22 pm

Moyes will turn this bloke into Feillaini.

Post Reply