January 2022 Transfer Window

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Wilko1304
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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:30 am

Aceface wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:54 am
If you were making an ordered list of the parts of the squad where a long-term injury would have the most outsize impact, it would probably look something like this

Rice
Antonio
---daylight---
Zouma (and only because Ogbonna is already out)

Central midfield hasn't come up much in January discussions but it's surely due to a bit of complacency over Soucek or Rice not being injury-prone, and an assumption that can continue. It would be dick-shrinkingly terrifying going into a three-month stretch with one of the two out, especially so with Rice.
As much as Rice is our best player, Antonio's loss is probably somewhat the more pressing, if not bigger.

For one, we won't be able to find the quality of Rice in the window - or maybe ever - so in terms of its impact regards to transfer discussion, it's just a task based on his quality not the hole in the team.

Then you look at cover. Lanzini can definitely play in there properly, in as much as it's his actual position. Not only that, we have Kral. It will necessitate a change in style, likely with both, but not in a way that makes us unrecognisable.

With Antonio, we don't have an alternative. All the Bowen talk is hope, he has as yet not proven himself an effective striker. There are those who think he's showing promise there, so it's not conclusive by any means. Taking their more optimistic view into account, his style of play is different too.

However, his strengths may cover that, and I do think there's something there. Not something I want to rely on for too long as of yet, but...

My main concern would be the impact on our attacking play. Bowen's our ball carrier, key to counters for us. Not only that, he's key to stopping us being countered on because he's so diligent in getting back in at pace. If Antonio is out and Bowen goes up top, it's almost like losing two key parts to our play.

It's why I've come round to Lingard. I wasn't so sure, I believed we could look elsewhere and find someone wider, but his ball-carrying is excellent and drawn into even sharper focus by how poor we were against Wolves. Lingard would have got into the middle and offered a threat with the ball at his feet on the counter. Benrahma's style isn't that, Bowen drifted out of the game entirely doing his tracking back. When Bowen isn't doing it, no one currently does.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:32 am

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 am
Small club mentality that.

Leicester have kept Vardy this entire time, we are currently keeping hold of Rice.

If Hlozek comes in and is a raging success why couldn't we hold onto him and Rice? I assume if he's done so well to attract Liverpool and Chelsea we'd be quite well in the league ourselves.
Totally different scenario. Leicester have kept Vardy largely down to his age. Would they have kept him if he had done what he has over the last 6 years and was now approaching the peak of his career at 26 (as Hlozek would be by comparison) and not 35?

We might keep Rice another season or so, nothing like 10 years though. He will be gone in at most 2 if he decides not to sign a new deal and however well we are doing in the league we cannot pay what the Sky 6 teams do.

Closing the doors last season saw Spurs lose over £90m in match receipts, that is something like 3 times what we generate. Ok given prices etc Spurs might be the greatest discrepancy but the rest of the Sky 6 will dwarf us on just this metric. You can pay a lot of wages with that £30m - £60m.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Liam » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:36 am

I get that Bowen is an option when Antonio is out, but thats not the only time we need another option.

It would have been great to have an actual striker on the bench when we need to change it up during the game. Moving a player who has played 60 mins as a wide forward isn't the same as being able to bring on an actual striker to replace or supplement Antonio up top.

Would being able to have thrown on another striker rescued a point against wolves? perhaps not but i'd have liked to have seen us try.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Billydinho » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:59 am

Liam wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:36 am

Would being able to have thrown on another striker rescued a point against wolves? perhaps not but i'd have liked to have seen us try.
That last ten minutes was exactly the situation for a Danny Ings-type striker off the bench to nick us a point. Look at the chance right at the end that Vlasic didn't gamble on, Ings would have and it would have been 1-1.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:35 pm

Billydinho wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:59 am
That last ten minutes was exactly the situation for a Danny Ings-type striker off the bench to nick us a point. Look at the chance right at the end that Vlasic didn't gamble on, Ings would have and it would have been 1-1.
Ings was never joining us to be a bench warmer, and he was extortionately expensive.

I know you said Ings-like, but who? Who was available?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Sale-Away » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:35 pm

Billydinho wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:59 am
That last ten minutes was exactly the situation for a Danny Ings-type striker off the bench to nick us a point. Look at the chance right at the end that Vlasic didn't gamble on, Ings would have and it would have been 1-1.
Hard to get on the end of those from the physio room though

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by MB » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:40 pm

Billydinho wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:59 am
That last ten minutes was exactly the situation for a Danny Ings-type striker off the bench to nick us a point. Look at the chance right at the end that Vlasic didn't gamble on, Ings would have and it would have been 1-1.
Back to the debate when Lingard came in. Are you better off with a quality midfielder who will always get minutes or a so so striker as let’s face it our lot won’t pay top dollar for a bench warmer and someone quality wouldn’t join?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aceface » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm

Is it weird I can't even imagine us buying striker and him coming in and being good?

Must be a combination of our historically atrocious history there combined with Moyes's pickiness in the last few windows.

Because, on paper, us signing a striker who comes in and is immediately successful would make us incredible right now. Why can't my brain picture that?? When I close my eyes and try it's just all static and hissing white noise like a detuned tv where that image should be.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by hammerman11 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm

we need a left back, centre back and striker as a minimum.

LB - kelly from bournmeouth
CB - needs to be left sided so zouma can go back on the right
CF - holzek or bayo or lingard

cant see any outs as yarmolenko is out of contract in the summer, randolph , no one will pay for him, fredericks is out of contract in the summer and injury prone so again unlikely to be any takers .

unsure what kral is like but if moyes doesnt rate him we need someone in CM

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by hammers92 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:03 pm

The lists are back :scarfer:

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by HammerAl » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:23 pm

Maybe you’re the same as me
We see things they’ll never see
hammerman is gonna list foreverrr!

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by funky chicken » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:23 pm

We have a Danny Ings striker. His name is Jarrod Bowen. In the 3 games he played up front this season he has 1 goal and 1 assists. Last season: 2 goals and 2 assists in 7 games. So in 10 games he has played up front for us he has contributed towards 6 goals. That record is as good as what Antonio’s was at the start of the season.

He really isn’t that far off from being a very good striker. Of all our attacking players he certainly has more efforts on target than any of them. Even Antonio! Yes, he could take more of his chances. But that’s not to say he won’t get better with more experience and age. Lots of the best strikers don’t tend to peak until around 26+. He’s only 24.

If Antonio is ever missing I have zero concerns with sticking Bowen up front. I really don’t believe the drop off in quality is that significant. However, we are still short of at least 1 attacking player. That’s even before we lose Yarmolenko at the end of the season. In January I would especially target an attacker that can at least play on the right hand side. As when Bowen plays up front other than Fredericks we don’t really have anyone else that can play there.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ethanadict » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:26 pm

hammers92 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:49 am
First time in over a couple of seasons they’ve had a little dip. Couple of wins and they’re back in the top 10 looking upwards.

I think the point about Leicester is that they have targets they would go for if they lost each player in their position. Something which I’ve read Newman has been tasked to do for Moyes.
Someone on here (forgotten who, sorry) recommended an old book, the Nowhere Men which is about football scouts, their networks and the managers who worked well with them.

There's a chapter in there that covers Moyes while he is at Everton and it's really interesting. Back then, he would have whiteboards of player targets for every position, exactly as you've mentioned here. Be surprising if he'd given up the practise.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 pm

Think Mic is on 6 goals from an xG of 5. Bowen is on 2 goals from an xG of 3.6

Mic on a goal every 0.16 shots, a goal every 0.55 shots on target. Bowen currently on 0.07 goals per shot and 0.17 goals per shot on target.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by steveyrockstar » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:05 pm

Bowen is okay as emergency striker cover and is fantastic for inter-changing with Antonio during a match, but I think we urgently need someone who can actually rotate with Antonio for the main striker position and give us an additional option in the squad for that role. As others have said, wouldn't it be nice to have the option of bringing on a CF at 65mins that isn't Yarmo.

The other problem with Bowen covering CF is that it means we have to find someone equally effective to step into his position. Obviously, if we can get Lingard in, it would help temper that - as would Vlasic stepping up, too.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by iLoveLasagne » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:07 pm

Ethanadict wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:26 pm
Someone on here (forgotten who, sorry) recommended an old book, the Nowhere Men which is about football scouts, their networks and the managers who worked well with them.

There's a chapter in there that covers Moyes while he is at Everton and it's really interesting. Back then, he would have whiteboards of player targets for every position, exactly as you've mentioned here. Be surprising if he'd given up the practise.
Apparently there was a secret room, secret in that it was off limits to players where Moyes and the coaching staff discussed potential exits of playing staff and targets to replace them.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by yakandyeti » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:05 pm

iLoveLasagne wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:07 pm
Apparently there was a secret room, secret in that it was off limits to players where Moyes and the coaching staff discussed potential exits of playing staff and targets to replace them.
I've written about this on this forum several times, it's ruthless, but awful when you realise it's simplicity and we've probably never had it before.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:31 pm

Wout Weghorst has apparently starte following some West Ham accounts. All 6'4/5 of him, plays for Wolfsburg, Dutch striker, we've been linked in the past. 29 years old.

That is a plan B.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by HammerAl » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:34 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:31 pm
Wout Weghorst has apparently starte following some West Ham accounts. All 6'4/5 of him, plays for Wolfsburg, Dutch striker, we've been linked in the past. 29 years old.

That is a plan B.
I think he’s 6’6, Wilko. Every inch counts!

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:42 pm

One of the podcast boys ( @WHU_Analytics) did a big Twitter thread and an article for the site on potential Ogbonna replacements:

https://kumb.com/article.php?id=44174

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