January 2022 Transfer Window

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aceface » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:45 pm

yakandyeti wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:05 pm
I've written about this on this forum several times, it's ruthless, but awful when you realise it's simplicity and we've probably never had it before.
Imagine stumbling into it inadvertently as a player. Two lists side-beside written on the wall in Moyes' spidery hand, no indication given what each list represents. Why is yours on the left? A polaroid of Felipe Anderson on the wall with his face scratched out with an eraser.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Aceface wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:45 pm
Imagine stumbling into it inadvertently as a player. Two lists side-beside written on the wall in Moyes' spidery hand, no indication given what each list represents. Why is yours on the left? A polaroid of Felipe Anderson on the wall with his face scratched out with an eraser.
Image

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aceface » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:57 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:31 pm
Wout Weghorst has apparently starte following some West Ham accounts. All 6'4/5 of him, plays for Wolfsburg, Dutch striker, we've been linked in the past. 29 years old.

That is a plan B.
Poor old Alisson. He'd only just started sleeping through the night again.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Billydinho » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:35 pm
Ings was never joining us to be a bench warmer, and he was extortionately expensive.

I know you said Ings-like, but who? Who was available?
Wouldn't know, not even a lot coming out of the Championship. Was Hlozek about in the Summer or was he unaffordable?

Every other club in the league seems to have strikers though (barring Spurs and they're paying for it).

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:42 pm

Billydinho wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:16 pm
Wouldn't know, not even a lot coming out of the Championship. Was Hlozek about in the Summer or was he unaffordable?

Every other club in the league seems to have strikers though (barring Spurs and they're paying for it).
Of course the similarity there is that their main striker is seemingly unstoppable, whilst Antonio clearly isn't as highly rated as Kane he is very important to our system and replacing him with an upgrade would be extortionately expensive.

Tie this in with no one wanting to play back up (like with Kane), and we have the same problem at Tottenham.

We can't afford better, and it's not worth signing worse. What we need is versatile players who can replace Antonio but also play elsewhere (like with Son)

We already have Bowen and could do with another option similar. Hlozek, Brereton and Origi can all cover multiple positions, that's a signing I'd favour rather than a Plan B option like Weghorst to sit on the bench.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by bubbles1966 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:53 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 pm
Think Mic is on 6 goals from an xG of 5. Bowen is on 2 goals from an xG of 3.6

Mic on a goal every 0.16 shots, a goal every 0.55 shots on target. Bowen currently on 0.07 goals per shot and 0.17 goals per shot on target.
And last season?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by -DL- » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:03 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:42 pm


We already have Bowen and could do with another option similar. Hlozek, Brereton and Origi can all cover multiple positions, that's a signing I'd favour rather than a Plan B option like Weghorst to sit on the bench.
He wouldn't be a plan b to sit on the bench. He would be an alternative. He would be someone to get Antonio out of his comfort zone, rather than him being safe in the knowledge that no matter how is form is, he will be a starter.

Just a few months ago, nobody would ever of dreamt that Coufal would now be sitting on the bench whilst another RB is playing the football of his life.

Granted, Haller was dropped as soon as Antonio was half fit, but he wasn't a Moyes man. This new person will be. Nobody will be coming here as an understudy to Antonio. Anyone coming will be vying to take the shirt off of him.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by hammerman11 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:12 pm

We need to sign someone who can challenge and eventually replace Antonio

Injury / age will mean next season we will see less if him so must have a viable alternative .
Lingard and holzek would give us plenty of options for our front 4

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm

-DL- wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:03 pm
He wouldn't be a plan b to sit on the bench. He would be an alternative. He would be someone to get Antonio out of his comfort zone, rather than him being safe in the knowledge that no matter how is form is, he will be a starter.

Just a few months ago, nobody would ever of dreamt that Coufal would now be sitting on the bench whilst another RB is playing the football of his life.

Granted, Haller was dropped as soon as Antonio was half fit, but he wasn't a Moyes man. This new person will be. Nobody will be coming here as an understudy to Antonio. Anyone coming will be vying to take the shirt off of him.
I agree but I can't see us finding a competitor on our budget. We need to find someone on the way up, Hlozek, or someone who is capable of multiple positions as well as replacing Antonio, Bowen/Brereton.

Tottenham have seen how difficult it is to get competition for Kane, we're suffering similarly.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by -DL- » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:19 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm
I agree but I can't see us finding a competitor on our budget. We need to find someone on the way up, Hlozek, or someone who is capable of multiple positions as well as replacing Antonio, Bowen/Brereton.

Tottenham have seen how difficult it is to get competition for Kane, we're suffering similarly.
What is our budget then? Nobody has any idea what our 'budget' is - and by the same token, it would also depend on how the deal is structured in repayment terms.

Tottenham are Tottenham - a club that has no idea what the hell they are doing, that go through managers like most people get through socks, so it's a bit unjust and a bit silly to compare us - whom are on a totally different trajectory, and have stability, to them.

We need an out and out striker - not a jack of all trades. We have people in the squad already that can play anywhere in the front four. We have one dedicated CF.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:26 pm

-DL- wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:19 pm
What is our budget then? Nobody has any idea what our 'budget' is - and by the same token, it would also depend on how the deal is structured in repayment terms.

Tottenham are Tottenham - a club that has no idea what the hell they are doing, that go through managers like most people get through socks, so it's a bit unjust and a bit silly to compare us - whom are on a totally different trajectory, and have stability, to them.

We need an out and out striker - not a jack of all trades. We have people in the squad already that can play anywhere in the front four. We have one dedicated CF.
Well, Antonio is also a Jack of all Trades who only recently became a dedicated CF.

In terms of budget it's unrealistic to expect us to sign someone for £40+ million and I also think it would be foolish to dedicate that much money to one signing.

There are a few out and out strikers who are interesting, like Cycle Larin or Darryl Dike.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by MB » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:37 pm

I don't disagree DL, but the pool of players who fit that criteria is small and all would have us 2nd or 3rd on their list of clubs to join.

Making the Europa league once doesn't make us a big enough draw so then you are looking at players here for the dosh alone. That rarely works out well.

Finding the right quality with the right attitude to go with it is really hard. That's why growing our own is so tempting, but I really think we need someone with instant impact. A tough one.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by -DL- » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:58 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:26 pm
Well, Antonio is also a Jack of all Trades who only recently became a dedicated CF.

In terms of budget it's unrealistic to expect us to sign someone for £40+ million and I also think it would be foolish to dedicate that much money to one signing.

There are a few out and out strikers who are interesting, like Cycle Larin or Darryl Dike.
It took what, 4 years to discover Antonio could be an out and out striker? If you're happy to punt in the hope a jack of all trades will come good, then fill your boots. I'm not. We would have gone an entire season without an alternative striker.

I stated previously, I find that decision inexplicable. If we don't address it this window, it will be inexcusable.

What's this Newman bloke up to? It's his job to find us one - although despite the fact he has the worlds richest club on his CV, it does beg the question what are his actual talents, as when you have unlimited money, players can't be that hard to find. I'm trying to think of a hidden gem that Man City signed when he was there.

We pay people handsomely to source us players. Thus far, in two windows they have not delivered. The board can shoulder some of the responsibility of that, but ultimately it's also down to the manager and the scouting staff.

I think it's already cost us at least a point this season against Wolves by not having an Antonio alternative - and it very well could have cost us CL football last year too.

Personally, my money is on no striker and getting Lingard, and keeping fingers crossed he replicates last seasons form for us.

Maybe I'm being harsh because we're in the top four still - but come the window opening, we'll see just how valuable three points, or even a point against Wolves could have been for our CL Challenge. I'm not speaking out of turn here, but our manager has stated that's the goal this season. We've got a horrible run of league games coming up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us in 8th or 9th come the end of it, pinning our hopes on Lingard in January.

Whilst winning becomes a habit, sadly, so does losing, and I expect us to get 1 out of 9 points out of City, Brighton and Chelsea - but we could get zero. No Antonio alternative v Wolves, and the same v Southampton for that matter, may prove very costly for our managers ambitions come the end of the season. If it stays that way after January, then there will be no chance in hell we finish top four.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by -DL- » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

MB wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:37 pm
I don't disagree DL, but the pool of players who fit that criteria is small and all would have us 2nd or 3rd on their list of clubs to join.

Making the Europa league once doesn't make us a big enough draw so then you are looking at players here for the dosh alone. That rarely works out well.

Finding the right quality with the right attitude to go with it is really hard. That's why growing our own is so tempting, but I really think we need someone with instant impact. A tough one.
I think you're doing us a bit of a disservice mate. We're an attractive proposition right now as we're clearly a club and team in the ascendency. If it is made clear to any potential signing that they will be on equal footing and that the starting spot is there for the taking, and player with a bit of savvy about them would do well to consider us - but of course, we will need to pay the wages to match their ability - so where does the line get drawn? Do we shop in the lower end of the market instead, or do we for once go all out and sign a player that's going to cost a big wage?

No signing is guaranteed success, but at least give it a go and try to get real quality in. If we have to pay them £150k a week - so be it. That's the rate and more nowadays for quality.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:21 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:53 pm
And last season?
Pretty level on the shot metric, Bowen outperformed his xG and Antonio underperformed. Antonio was also taking his average shots a couple yards closer to goal and Jarrod a little further out than this year.

Adding in the domestic cups for this year, Bowen a little worse off on those shot metrics. But his Europa stats boost it a touch, so with all games included this season (didnt know it wasnt) it's Bowen at 0.09 per shot and 0.21 for shot on target.

Combining the two seasons (in the league), Bowen gets closer to him on both (0.12/0.16 & 0.36/0.47). If FBRef's data is correct, that is. Antonio edges him on shot creation too, but almost exactly level on expected assists.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by The Straw » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:28 pm

Keep seeing Brereton's name mentioned. Is this based purely on his numbers the last year? Regardless of that from what I've seen of him he just doesn't look like he's at the level required at all. What have I missed?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:30 pm

Belotti stacks up surprisingly well to Mic on a lot of areas, and I reckon Marcus Thuram, Bayo at Clermont (granted, he's got well-discussed transgressions and feels a little bit of a Sakho mkII punt), Bebou at Hoffenheim, Undav who is scoring for Union at the top of the Belgian league, Hlozek and maybe Koita at Salzburg could be gettable. I am stealing all these from Cal on the KUMB podcast, by the way, do not want to claim any brains.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by El brooko79 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:31 pm

The Straw wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:28 pm
Keep seeing Brereton's name mentioned. Is this based purely on his numbers the last year? Regardless of that from what I've seen of him he just doesn't look like he's at the level required at all. What have I missed?
I'd say its because he is out of contract in the summer.
We are still used to shopping in the bargain section

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by funky chicken » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:47 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:26 pm
In terms of budget it's unrealistic to expect us to sign someone for £40+ million and I also think it would be foolish to dedicate that much money to one signing.
Maybe it’s unrealistic. Maybe it isn’t, depending on how generous our new investor is. But I don’t think spending a lot of the next budget on 1 player is completely out of the question. Assuming both Areola and Kral become permanent West Ham, how many other positions do we really need to strengthen? Other than a striker/attacker I can only think of a left sided centre half and a left back. So in the long run, as we’ll have so little positions to strength Moyes will then have the leverage to be able to spend as much as he wants on just 1-2 new players.

Moyes tries to spend his money wisely. But he’s also more than happy to spend big on a player. He spent just shy of £20m for Fellaini at Everton. Which was an awful lot of money at that time. Even here he spent a whopping £25m-30m on Vlasic.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by MB » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:51 pm

-DL- wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm
I think you're doing us a bit of a disservice mate. We're an attractive proposition right now as we're clearly a club and team in the ascendency. If it is made clear to any potential signing that they will be on equal footing and that the starting spot is there for the taking, and player with a bit of savvy about them would do well to consider us - but of course, we will need to pay the wages to match their ability - so where does the line get drawn?
I’m a glass half empty kind of person mate :rofl:

Again I don’t disagree, it is when the wages don’t match the ability i worry but in Moyes I trust!

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