West Ham Utd 1 Everton 3 (08/11/08)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

Moderator: Gnome

Post Reply
User avatar
Hugh Jargon
Posts: 6941
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:39 pm
Location: The Isle of Lesbos, Cuba- Tottenham redondo corriente con el pene que cuelga fuera

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by Hugh Jargon » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:23 pm

Zola was a World class player. He is trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear with our lot.

Top players struggling to comprehend why lesser players cannot perform what they found easy has happened many times before..

Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Ruud Gullit......

Zola was a great player and a top bloke....but we have 1 point from a possible 18 because of his deluded 'mission' in making our players better....

Best thing to improve Faubert is to play him at a more approprate level...which is most probably the Championship. Cost us 2 goals, he is an average midfielder and a **** RB. Pardon?

User avatar
hammer1975
Posts: 11844
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:16 pm

Re: Scott Parker "im f*cked"

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:23 pm

westlondonhammer wrote: I agree... I thought his choice of subs was strange too... with 15 minutes it was clear to me we needed some more height in the back line as they were getting closer and closer with their crosses and someone like Tomkins to come of the bench would have been perfect, but instead we had 2 central midfielders and 2 left sided midfielders on the bench!

As for Parker, i thought he was excellent yesterday... I cant quite understand anyone who thinks he was poor yesterday either
agree with both of those points...it almost seems like zola has a plan and he sticks with it no matter what is happening on the pitch. Not all of his sub decisions have been bad but a fair chunk of the decisions (or lack of) have been questionable IMO.

Also think though that he's just learning in the same way that southgate was in the early days at boro....said it when he was appointed - no matter how good a manager he will go on to be he will still make mistakes whilst he's learning, most seemed happy with his appointment so kind of goes with the territory.

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 49732
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:24 pm

irving boleyn wrote:I am at a loss.

Do the critics not see a direct correlation between the minimal squad strengthening over the last 3 buying periods and our very weak Team?
That IB is the contradiction. If the football is so much improved....does that mean we really have a weak team?

Or is it that the right tactical choices are not being made (poor substitutions maybe?) leading to poor results.

Or is it that the transfer strategy of weakening the squad in the summer is actually now coming home to roost?
The amount of turd polishing this year by both managers MUST be taken into consideration.

Players who were bench fodder at best 18 months ago, Cole, LBM,Mullins,Etheringtone etc are now regular choices and almost automatic starters. It should be apparent that we are a poor team and will struggle under any management.
But we didn't last year.

There are a couple of reasons for that which I would suggest.

Firstly, the manager was more experienced and got his tactics right more frequently. Zola needs to learn that side.

Secondly, the board have set about screwing Curbsishley and are now doing the same to Zola.
Should you want to return to the days of Curbishley,and yes,he too,suffered from a weak squad, take a look at his record over the last 12 games of the 07/08 season.

Played 12.Won 2 Drew 3 Lost 7. Goals for 11.Goals against 27

So Zola has hardly had a detrimental effect on performances..
Far too easy to ignore context mate. Our form from March to May was very poor last year.....but was as much a consequence of midtable complacency and a desire to blood youngsters and get our injury prone players fit (the benefit of which we are seeing this year) as any deficiency in tactics / squad.

This year it's down to a small number of poorer players in the squad and inexperience within the management.
I saw a carefully chosen team yesterday which would have been endorsed by most of us play to the best of their abilities at both ends and delay the (on paper) foreseen result for 80 minutes.
Everton, this year, have been mediocre/moderate - and are not a patch on what they were last year. Their defence has leaked like a sieve, while they have been outplayed by Fulham, Stoke and Hull for large parts of each of those games.

They came into yesterdays game with Yakubu, Feillani and Pienaar all missing.

It is perfectly reasonable of the doubters to ask:

1) Why, when Upson got injured, did we not have a centre half available to replace him?

2) Why did Faubert end up at right back when it is clearly not his position ? is it because we didn't have a centre half available to replace Upson, in spite of being able to name 7 subs;

3) Was the substitution of Boa Morte the right thing, given that goals 1 and 2 came down that side after his removal?

4) Why was Parker still on the pitch "running on empty"?

5) Why are we suprised when players who being coached to pass the ball at all costs, give it away in their own half, whilst penned in by the opposition, and that leads to a goal?

6) Why are we suprised, that from a position of having two pretty immobile centre halfs on the pitch, that a forward with decent movement like Saha will eventually take them apart?

It seems increasingly that some basic organisational errors are being made that are undermining what appears to be excellent 1-2-1 and technical skills coaching.

The worrying thing about the errors, which everyone is bound to make occasionally, is that they seem to keep recurring.

Still, I fancy us for 4 points from the next 2 games :D

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 56302
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am

Re: Scott Parker "im f*cked"

Post by Up the Junction » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:26 pm

westlondonhammer wrote:I agree... I thought his choice of subs was strange too...
i think it was 50/50 ... Etherington's (early) introduction was instrumental in our goal but Parker, for one should have been replaced (by Mullins IMO) when it was clear he was struggling much earlier than the 87th minute.

As for Zola admitting he may need to change the way his side plays, I'm not sure I'd agree ... as we nearly all seem to concur that we were pretty awesome for 75 minutes (and the first hour up at 'Boro). What he does need to reflect on is the way Southgate and Moyes have taken points from us with their substitutions in the last two games - and learn from it.

The biggest worry for me is that we're playing, on the whole, well - but not winning games.
Hugh Jargon wrote:Zola was a World class player. He is trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear with our lot.
Which is the bottom line.

User avatar
Puff Daddy
Gone for a Burton
Posts: 25929
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Westham Way

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by Puff Daddy » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:27 pm

I think it was pathetic the way our defence collapsed at the first sign of any pressure being put upon it. Zola and Clarke may well appreciate fast, passing and good attacking play, but they've gotta find solutions for us at the back, otherwise, our soft under belly gonna get us into some real difficulties from which we may not escape

User avatar
FurryDice Upton Boy
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 10:40 am
Location: Houghton Regis, Beds
Contact:

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by FurryDice Upton Boy » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:29 pm

I was there yesterday and was impressed with the first 80 mins but tbh it was always coming their goals - we just sat further and further back and invited them on. Zola needs to realise that no squad can attack tirelessly for the full 90 we needed Mullins on mid way through the half to bolster things - maybe go to a back three and move Faubert (f*** when is he going to play well?) into midfield and stifle the game.

We are running out of time to stop the pressure mounting on us and getting drawn into a dogfight. I think we have too much quality to go down, but we did the last time too. I think January is going to be a crucial time for us, we need to reinforce and not sell off our better assets.

User avatar
WHU_Del
Posts: 6799
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:18 pm
Location: In the words of William Morris: 'I come not from Heaven, but from Essex'.

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by WHU_Del » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:33 pm

I'm going to make this clear, just in case anyone from the club might be reading this.
JULIEN FAUBERT IS NOT A RIGHT-BACK.

That, in a nutshell, is the biggest problem at the moment. In the move that led to their second goal, once he knew the ball wasn't going out, all he had to do was thump it over the touchline for a throw.
And for the third, don't play it into the centre of the field, play it long down the line or again, out for a throw.
Relieve the pressure. Give us a chance to re-organise.
We have to have proper right-back as an option to back up Lucas. Not a winger who 'can do a job' (and yet, can't). Or a centre-half who can fill in. A proper right -back who is used to playing at right-back, who knows what to do when playing there.

User avatar
hongkonghammer
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Hong Kong

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by hongkonghammer » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:36 pm

Oh dear!

Played well for 80 minutes and didn't capitalise once again. This is becoming a worrying trend and if it doesn't snap soon we are going to be in real trouble. I'm all for the attacking football, but the key to that is scoring. It's been a while since we have scored more than 1 in a game and over 20 games since we kept a clean sheet. One of those stats needs to change immediately. I think all the Curbs haters are going to get their wish for a rollercoaster season this year, it's a toss up on where we will finish at the end of it.

User avatar
hammer1975
Posts: 11844
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:16 pm

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:38 pm

FurryDice Upton Boy wrote:I was there yesterday and was impressed with the first 80 mins but tbh it was always coming their goals - we just sat further and further back and invited them on. Zola needs to realise that no squad can attack tirelessly for the full 90 we needed Mullins on mid way through the half to bolster things - maybe go to a back three and move Faubert (f*** when is he going to play well?) into midfield and stifle the game.

We are running out of time to stop the pressure mounting on us and getting drawn into a dogfight. I think we have too much quality to go down, but we did the last time too. I think January is going to be a crucial time for us, we need to reinforce and not sell off our better assets.
:lol: very funny

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 49732
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Scott Parker "im f*cked"

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:41 pm

Up the Junction wrote: i think it was 50/50 ... Etherington's (early) introduction was instrumental in our goal but Parker, for one should have been replaced (by Mullins IMO) when it was clear he was struggling much earlier than the 87th minute.

As for Zola admitting he may need to change the way his side plays, I'm not sure I'd agree ... as we nearly all seem to concur that we were pretty awesome for 75 minutes (and the first hour up at 'Boro). What he does need to reflect on is the way Southgate and Moyes have taken points from us with their substitutions in the last two games - and learn from it.

The biggest worry for me is that we're playing, on the whole, well - but not winning games.
Which is the bottom line.
Agree re: the substitutions...... we do seem to be losing points "tactically".

re: the players - I actually think he's got a pretty reasonable bunch in midfield and up front. I mean Parker and Bellamy were rarely available last year and are much better players than those they have replaced. Behrami is also useful, while Collison looks a very decent find

Faubert looks much worse than he is because he is constantly being played out of position. Reminds me very much of Mullins - who also looked a shocking player as a full back - under Pardew - but is ok when played in the right position.

The squad weakness lies in the reliance on Ashton to stay fit, and the defensive sales...... they really cocked up in the transfer market in the summer....

Whatever money they think they recouped in the summer - they are going to have to lay out in January for fear of falling off teh gravy train....

User avatar
SoulCircus
Posts: 2722
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: The Ocean at the End of the Lane

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by SoulCircus » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:43 pm

Apologies if some of this has been said, I haven't read the whole thread!

I thought that after Upson went off we would struggle at the back, but Everton didn't half a sniff in the first half, I thought we adapted to his injury quite well. I don't recall Everton having a shot of note in the first 60 minutes.

It seems to me that the players can't play out a 1-0. When we scored it seemed that the team sat back and invited Everton forward, dropping deeper and deeper and a goal seemed inevitable. After that we just capitulated. This whole '24 games since a clean sheet' thing is playing on the players minds.

Etherington was much more of an attacking threat when he came on, but left huge gaps behind him which Everton exploited. That's what you get with LBM I guess, he's never going to set the world on fire going forward but he does his job defensively. And why some people around me were booing him before the game even started I have no idea.

Can't see us keeping a clean sheet with Pompey next week, Defoe will score as that is what happens when an ex-Hammer comes back to UP, and Crouch will cause all sorts of problems as well. Going to get worse before it gets better...

User avatar
smuts
Posts: 22643
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:28 am
Location: East, East, East London

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by smuts » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:09 pm

I think a few of you have hit the nail on the head.

Zola is rightly trying to play decent stuff....however as Curbs knew...you can't do it all the time and therefore have to play ugly sometimes.

The lack of investment in playing staff has cost us badly in the last year or so and although there is some dead wood needing to go, Zola needs to start pressuring the board for a commitment that he can recruit aswell with the cash he obtains rather than being set up as the fall guy by BG and Duxbury to recoup the initial investment.

The Pompey game is a massive one....and I just can't see our defence coping with a fired up Defoe and Crouch..... :?

User avatar
double D
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Back from a better life

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by double D » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:10 pm

We have now changed managers 3 times in recent years and we are no better off, perhaps its about time we realised that our playing staff just are not good enough, 3 different styles of managers and same result :evil:

User avatar
hammer1975
Posts: 11844
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:16 pm

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:25 pm

smuts wrote:I think a few of you have hit the nail on the head.

Zola is rightly trying to play decent stuff....however as Curbs knew...you can't do it all the time and therefore have to play ugly sometimes.

The lack of investment in playing staff has cost us badly in the last year or so and although there is some dead wood needing to go, Zola needs to start pressuring the board for a commitment that he can recruit aswell with the cash he obtains rather than being set up as the fall guy by BG and Duxbury to recoup the initial investment.

The Pompey game is a massive one....and I just can't see our defence coping with a fired up Defoe and Crouch..... :?
sums it up for me although i'd question whether zola would pressure the board into anything as i'd suggest he partly got the job because he has been told january position up front....smashing bloke and not the root of our current troubles (you'll find them at whatever tax free haven BG is hiding out)....

User avatar
Bobby Orangeboom
Posts: 34465
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm
Location: London, unfortunately.

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by Bobby Orangeboom » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:38 pm

simonirons wrote:Was at the game yesterday, well kinda, decided to go at 11.30 yesterday morning so ended up getting seats up with the gods at the very ack of DM upper.

We played some fantastic football yesterday and really was a pleasure to watch, there was no single poor player in my opinion.

The mrs wanted to watch the mayors firworks so we left with about 8 mins, left... what the f*** happened?? :lol:

By the time i got to the station it filtered through that we lost 3-1, got to temple 20 mins after the fireworks started and they had finished, who does a 20min firework display?

Anyone know where i can watch highlights?
Yes Mate, here you go... :lol:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

libero
Posts: 5305
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:42 pm

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by libero » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:41 pm

We did play well yesterday but the calamatous final ten minutes are very worrying. After Collison scored Mullins should have come on to shore up the gap between the midfield and central defence. Easy to say in retrospect? But it's obvious isn't it. With 20 minutes to go Everton were going to throw everything at us and we needed someone capable of winning the ball. Best player at the club for that particular role? Hayden Mullins. The worrying thing is that Zola and Clarke didn't even seem to consider the option

User avatar
Bobby Orangeboom
Posts: 34465
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm
Location: London, unfortunately.

Re: Scott Parker "im f*cked"

Post by Bobby Orangeboom » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:48 pm

Up the Junction wrote: i think it was 50/50 ... Etherington's (early) introduction was instrumental in our goal but Parker, for one should have been replaced (by Mullins IMO) when it was clear he was struggling much earlier than the 87th minute.

As for Zola admitting he may need to change the way his side plays, I'm not sure I'd agree ... as we nearly all seem to concur that we were pretty awesome for 75 minutes (and the first hour up at 'Boro). What he does need to reflect on is the way Southgate and Moyes have taken points from us with their substitutions in the last two games - and learn from it.

The biggest worry for me is that we're playing, on the whole, well - but not winning games.
Which is the bottom line.
Honestly, watched the Game again this morning & the first time he said " i'm ****ed " was on 71 mins..

Mullins would have been the perfect replacement & tightened us up as the only place they were dangerous before they scored was the hole between our Midfield * our Defence, where Saha scored the 3rd from & possibly some may argue, where he dropped off into space for the 2nd....

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 49732
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:52 pm

libero wrote:We did play well yesterday but the calamatous final ten minutes are very worrying. After Collison scored Mullins should have come on to shore up the gap between the midfield and central defence. Easy to say in retrospect? But it's obvious isn't it. With 20 minutes to go Everton were going to throw everything at us and we needed someone capable of winning the ball. Best player at the club for that particular role? Hayden Mullins. The worrying thing is that Zola and Clarke didn't even seem to consider the option
That particular substitution - Mullins for ..... at 65/70 minutes - was part of the reason we held on to win against Wigan and Blackburn earlier in the season....

Its such a blindingly obvious tactic - bring on 2 fresh midfielders at 65 minutes to keep up the workrate if holding on, or 1 forward and 1 midfielder if going for the win - that you wonder what is going on.

3 of the last 4 games have seen us lose points because of decisions (or non-decisions) at this time

User avatar
RM6
Posts: 7341
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:00 pm
Location: Depleting. Punishing. Destroying.

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by RM6 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:33 pm

We now have 1 point from the last 18 because Zola is a clown who is well out of his depth.

User avatar
FurryDice Upton Boy
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 10:40 am
Location: Houghton Regis, Beds
Contact:

Re: Match Thread: West Ham -v- Everton

Post by FurryDice Upton Boy » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:15 pm

RM6 wrote:We now have 1 point from the last 18 because Zola is a clown who is well out of his depth.

That is a little harsh imho - yes he has got it wrong but he will improve and so will we - sacking him or shouting for his head will not achieve success just heap more pressure on him

Post Reply