ELQ2: Birkirkara 1-0 West Ham Utd (3-5 pens) (23/07/15)

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DaveWHU1964
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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by DaveWHU1964 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:21 am

SRXT wrote:The problem with bringing on Nolan to close out a game is that ......
That's why I put "possibly' before what I wrote SRXT. It's the only role I could see that he could be useful for.

But if a team wanted him (Bolton? QPR?) I think we'd be more than happy for him to go. None of that is meant as disrespectful towards Kev- he's done a great job for us, but even if we don't have a better captain than him we now have plenty of better options than him in our midfield. And we're quite likely to have one or two more before Summer is out. It's testament to the role performed by the likes of Kev that we have finally got ourselves into a position where we can afford and attract better players.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by snooperpooper » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:22 am

chalks wrote:all this 'one of own' rubbish re Noble gets so nauseating

Face facts, he has been as poor as any 1st team squad player since the turn of the year. To move forward as a club, the position he occupies simply has to be upgraded, local boy or not
This is nail on the head and all the time people continue to say "he's one of us" and so he must start are looking to maintain a status quo that just cannot exist.

The position has to be upgraded and if Noble can demonstrate he's stepped his game up to play that position then great but if not then he and those on here who cannot see his shortcomings need to accept that.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Yea Why Not » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:23 am

Mark Noble = Sloble

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Paddy O'Hammer » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:23 am

McKnightmare wrote:This is in no means an excuse for how bad we were, but was anyone else really impressed with Birkirkara? Aside from the gamesmanship and mimed cards, they were set up well, doubled up on us each time we broke and their goal was also pretty good.
Very quick at getting two lines of 4 or 5 and 3 into place when we attacked.

The didn't seem to have these "pre-season" issues that we keep excusing.......they were hungrier!

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by SRXT » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:25 am

DaveWHU1964 wrote:That's why I put "possibly' before what I wrote SRXT. It's the only role I could see that he could be useful for.

But if a team wanted him (Bolton? QPR?) I think we'd be more than happy for him to go. None of that is meant as disrespectful towards Kev- he's done a great job for us, but even if we don't have a better captain than him we now have plenty of better options than him in our midfield.
Sorry, should have said that I think he's better coming on as a CAM than CDM where Sam tended to bring him in toward the end of the season. At CAM he's good at putting pressure on up front.

Agree he's done a good job, just don't think we rely on him as much as we did when we really needed him. Best for him to move on if he can to get more game time imo.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by dt64 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:25 am

snooperpooper wrote: Face facts, he has been as poor as any 1st team squad player since the turn of the year. To move forward as a club, the position he occupies simply has to be upgraded, local boy or not
This is nail on the head and all the time people continue to say "he's one of us" and so he must start are looking to maintain a status quo that just cannot exist.

The position has to be upgraded and if Noble can demonstrate he's stepped his game up to play that position then great but if not then he and those on here who cannot see his shortcomings need to accept that.[/quote]

I agree with this but has he been given the chance? He was made to suffer last year playing with Nolan and so far he has had a handful of run outs alongside kids while he is building up fitness, lets give him a few games in the Prem and then revisit, im sure if he fails to show he is good enough then anyone advocating his inclusion will agree. The issue is that people are writing him off before the season has even started. It has happened every year for the past 4-5 and every year he has shown that he can step up, if the players is playing with at that time are also a step up.

I dont think we should forget that he looked like a "Wonderkid" alongside Tevez.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by wizzo_66 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:26 am

Just to clarify - my reference to Noble being a 'West Ham player' was not because he's local. It was in the context of him being a West Ham player like any other.

Like Collins, Adrian or any other.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by 61dicksey » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:28 am

Chicken Run Supreme wrote:Can see Poyet as a regular sub from the start of the season who if he continues to improve, could force his way into the first team.
Should immediately replace Noble as starter ,Noble is slow ponderous and at times a danger to us .

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by likemydreams » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:31 am

Last nights game showed us that 1 we haven't got a good enough squad to take these games lightly and 2 we need another striker badly !Maiga is a fraud and Zarate is s hite

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Yea Why Not » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:31 am

61dicksey wrote: Should immediately replace Noble as starter ,Noble is slow ponderous and at times a danger to us .
What has Poyet actually done to justify a place in the first team 11? Don't get me wrong, as much as I love Noble his first team place should 100% be in question but Poyet for me hasn't really done anything to stake a claim. I'd imagine £5m Obiang is ahead of him
Last edited by Yea Why Not on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by kthammer » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:36 am

It was horrible but we got through so we move on. But the one big lesson I hope we learn is that you only hurt yourself if you allow yourself to get wound up. I thought Noble's behaviour last night was terrible. He really should know better. And Tomkins deserved to get sent off for wrestling with the defender. We really have to make sure we keep cool in the future and concentrate on winding the opposition, not ourselves up.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by libero » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:42 am

In my opinion, the issue is not Noble as a starter, but Noble as a starter with Nolan in central midfield, which, as we saw last season, simply doesn't work. Nolan can't pass, doesn't get involved, doesn't create, which means Noble is having to try to do 2 people's jobs.

If Noble had started with Poyet as well as Kouyate last night, I think we'd have sen a much more fluent midfield performance from everyone. Poyet is the very opposite of Nolan in 2015 - he has vision, moves the ball quickly, keeps up with play, shows responsibility in his positioning. Nolan can't do that anymore, & so there's no point starting him any more.

We have a good number of central midfield midfield players & it's crucial that we play the right ones in the right combination, otherwise, we'll struggle creatively & defensively this season

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Ticket 2 Ryde » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:43 am

Mark Noble = No Ball :D

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hatori » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:44 am

Expected over reaction.

These games have no bearing on where the squad is.

Awkward teams on a windup in humidity against a squad that naturally will be in pre-season mode.

The attacking players in the team we play very few games

Yeah it was a close call but its not a doomsday scenario, far from it.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by 61dicksey » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:44 am

I should just make my point a bit clearer YWN , i think Poyet is a more balanced player than Noble at this moment, Noble is a very good player but along with most of the team has struggled and has appeared to be getting slower , more ponderous and gets caught in possesion a lot, this may be down to lack of movement ahead of him but it is noticeable how often it happens and when Poyet plays he appears more astute with his passing and vision.
Make you right about Obiang.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by DaveWHU1964 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:48 am

hatori wrote:Expected over reaction.

These games have no bearing on where the squad is.

Awkward teams on a windup in humidity against a squad that naturally will be in pre-season mode.

The attacking players in the team we play very few games

Yeah it was a close call but its not a doomsday scenario, far from it.
Good, measured post Hatori. :thup:

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by chalks » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:51 am

hatori wrote:Expected over reaction.

.
No over reaction from me, Noble has been worryingly poor for the best part of 20 games

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Up the Junction » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:51 am

Yea Why Not wrote:I can't see the press conference linked anywhere on the Billic Conference page?! I am on an iPhone though so that may be why
Well it's there. Look again?

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by LincolnshireHammer » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:52 am

I can only echo the sentiments displayed on this forum regarding Noble.

Despite Nobes being a local boy, I think it is time to move him on from his central midfield starting spot if we wish to progress at all. We are crying out for a bit of pace in that midfield and a bit of creativity and flair. Currently we have none of those in Noble. I don't however see Poyet as the answer to the problem. The lad had not shown enough yet to warrant a starting place, he's no where near ready. I would be inclined to give him a regular spot on the bench for our PL games alongside Samuelson, easily two of the most promising youngsters we have at the club.

We need to look elsewhere for a replacement for Noble. Retract him to the bench I say and potentially bring him on if we are looking to close the game out. Same can be said for Nolan, although I'm sure there are a lot of you that think he wouldn't even warrant a place on the bench at the moment, which in all honesty is a fair comment. Two places in our central midfield that need filling up immediately with quality. I like Kouyate, think he's doing a good job, and Song would be an improvement on Nolan and Noble.

I'm not purposely digging Kevin and Mark out, I think they have been great servants for our club, but at the moment to have them as Captain and Vice-Captain is laughable. We need to go forwards not backwards.

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Re: Birkirkara v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Billy Hunt » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:58 am

This is the same Noble that many on here were pushing for an England place even last season ?

Probably somewhere between that and the "not good enough for us" view is where he sits.

He is plenty good enough to be part of our squad

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