Everton 1-3 West Ham Utd (16/09/18)

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Ironing Board » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:30 pm

tizzwoz wrote:
Firstly, I'm not blaming fans. I asked if any fans felt partly responsible. Some might argue that reactionary / passionate support is what led to the scenes against Burnley... Is what led to MP's arrival, Moyes departure, 100m spend, a disjointed team etc etc. Can we as fans have it both ways? Can we insist on change. Insist on money being spent... Then moan when that change or that expense doesn't work out?

For the record, I'm sure we'll be fine. Its 4 games afterall. I'm just curious how much or how little fans feel responsibility. Had we won all 4 games and Anderson been voted player of the month, I'm sure we'd all be saying its cos we pressured the board that we are finally getting results. Does it work the other way though?
No, because the board should be professional enough to put the needs of the club above all considerations, including fan opinion. But our board is unprofessional, and clearly Sullivan calls all the shots . He uses the club as a way to feed his own ego and to play Football Manager, when he really does not have a clue about sports science, how to spot a player (beyond agent produced YouTube compilation clips) the attributes that you need in a player beyond the obvious (strong psychologically, hard working, etc),
Last edited by Ironing Board on Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by funky chicken » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:31 pm

We sadly won't play 3 at the back. So for me, as I mentioned twice leading up to Wimbledon and Wolves games we have to add an extra body in central midfield IMO.

I'd go with:

----------------------------------Fabianski-------------------------------

-Fredericks----------Balbuena-----Diop-----------Masuaku-

-----------------------------------Sanchez-----------------------------

------------------------Obiang------------Wilshere(c)-------------

-----------------------------------Anderson--------------------------

---------------Yarmalenko---------------------Arnautovic----------


Subs: Adrian, Zabaleta, Ogbonna, Rice, Noble, Snodgrass, Perez.

Yarmalenko to pull out wide and move centrally at time. I want us to almost set-up in the diamond formation that Big Sam played for a little while. Sanchez to sit deep like to be fair he did pretty well against Wolves minus the goal. Obiang and Wilshere more in front. But will hopefully offer more legs. Obiang to offer more of a physical presence and Wilshere to pass the ball. Fredericks and Masuaku to bomb forward. Anderson for godsake keep him in the middle please Pellers! Have in at the tip of the diamond. I also don't think Arnie is captain material as much as I like him. Balbuena & Diop have potential to be captains, but Diop especially is too young. Plus the language barrier won't help. Sanchez again the same reason, although is at least old enough. The only player in that team I think could do the job is possibly Wilshere. Right age, English, has a bit of a passion (he was one of the only one appealing to the ref yesterday), a fan of the club, and on his day can be a big influence. I do think the armband may even give him a lift. Minus the Arsenal game where he was quiet, I think he has done well. His passing accuracy is good. I think it's more of how the team is set-up/who he is partnered with that is more of the problems if we go with an extra body in midfield, I think that may get the best out of Jack.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Awooga_Iron » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:37 pm

I said in another thread that if you play 4231, you cannot afford the 3 to be hiding or jogging around the park, else it puts too much pressure on the full backs defensively, too much pressure on the midfield 2 defensively *and* offensively as they try to move the ball quickly up the park, and too much on Arnie to hunt down and defend from the front.

For me, Anderson has shown to be our most inventive but is infuriatingly casual, Antonio has not been able to trap a bag of sand, plays with his head down, and is infuriatingly casual. Yarmolenko has looked quality and worked hard.

I just can't see how we can continue to play 4231 as we don't put teams under pressure. Arnie needs some support. I'm not too sure what the answer is though. A lot of you seem convinced of playing a back three, perhaps that will give us some attacking through the wing backs. Perhaps 352 or 343?

--------------- Fabianski
------ Diop ---- Rice ---- Balbuena
Federicks Sanchez Noble Masuaku
--------------- Wilshere
--------- Arnie ------- Yarmolenko

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by tizzwoz » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:38 pm

[/quote]
No, because the board should be professional enough to put the needs of the club above all considerations, including fan opinion. But our board is unprofessional, and clearly Sullivan calls all the shots . He uses the club as a way to feed his own ego and to play Football Manager, when he really does not have a clue about sports science, how to spot a player (beyond agent produced YouTube compilation clips) the attributes that you need in a player beyond the obvious (strong psychologically, hard working, etc),[/quote]

I agree with you... But what I think your saying is that the board should ignore the fans most of the time and stick to running a successful, professional business... but isn't this what most people are angry about? The board not listening to fans?

Anyway, back on topic. Everton 1 - 1 West Ham

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Ironing Board » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:47 pm

tizzwoz wrote:
No, because the board should be professional enough to put the needs of the club above all considerations, including fan opinion. But our board is unprofessional, and clearly Sullivan calls all the shots . He uses the club as a way to feed his own ego and to play Football Manager, when he really does not have a clue about sports science, how to spot a player (beyond agent produced YouTube compilation clips) the attributes that you need in a player beyond the obvious (strong psychologically, hard working, etc),[/quote]

I agree with you... But what I think your saying is that the board should ignore the fans most of the time and stick to running a successful, professional business... but isn't this what most people are angry about? The board not listening to fans?

Anyway, back on topic. Everton 1 - 1 West Ham[/quote]
Thing is, I would argue they have not been running it as a successful, professional business. If they did we would be upper mid table and pushing for Europe.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by -DL- » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:37 pm

tizzwoz wrote:
Anyway, back on topic. Everton 1 - 1 West Ham
Tizzwoz,

It's an interesting post you've put that's opening further debate - copy and paste it and start a new thread :thup:

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by uptonparkhurst » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:45 pm

At least Lukaku is no longer there to score his nailed-on-goal against us.

If we score first 1-1 otherwise it could be anything north of 1-0.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by simon hammer » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:01 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:
You'd have to be insane, as a club owner, to watch a 5th straight defeat, by that margin, after a fortnight off to work on our glaring problems, and let him have even more time.
But, but, but...razzle dazzle!

Seriously though, if we play a back four and once the fourth goal goes in against us, as an owner I would be straight into the dressing room pointing out the bleeding obvious to Pellers.

Three at the back. Find a formation that suits the players. Work them harder fitness wise. Employ tactics they can understand and implement.

Stop the vanity experiment, wind the ego back in and prove to everyone you are adaptable and flexible enough to change from the tried and trusted. He may well have managed some top teams, but he has never managed one like us.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Hammers_Time » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:20 pm

Fredericks--Balbuena--Diop--Cresswell
------------------Sanchez-----------------
-------Wilshere-----------Noble/Obiang
-----------------Anderson
-------Yarmolenko--Arnautovic


Continuity in defense, sanchez to play dm, was alright throughout most of the game
wilshere along with somebody who can tackle and win the ball
anderson in the damn middle where he belongs
yarmolenko and arnie are on the same wavelength, let them be free and do their thing

1:1 or a scrappy win
we always seem to get something where we would never expect it

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by mumbles87 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:44 pm

Hammers_Time wrote:Fredericks--Balbuena--Diop--Cresswell
------------------Sanchez-----------------
-------Wilshere-----------Noble/Obiang
-----------------Anderson
-------Yarmolenko--Arnautovic


Continuity in defense, sanchez to play dm, was alright throughout most of the game
wilshere along with somebody who can tackle and win the ball
anderson in the damn middle where he belongs
yarmolenko and arnie are on the same wavelength, let them be free and do their thing

1:1 or a scrappy win
we always seem to get something where we would never expect it
A settled back 6 helps everyone!!

Then obiang and Wilshere to pass the oppo to death

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by prophet:marginal » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:09 pm

mumbles87 wrote:
A settled back 6 helps everyone!!

Then obiang and Wilshere to pass the oppo to death

The rest of our team would die of shock, if Obiang and Wilshere outpassed our opponents.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by HammerInMaryland » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:54 pm

----------------------Fabianski-----------------
Fredericks--Balbuena--Diop--Cresswell
-----------------Rice------Sanchez-----------
--Yarmolenko---Anderson----Masuaku--
--------------------Arnautovic------------------

Rice and Sanchez cover fullbacks who look to join the attack. But Rice and Sanchez must absolutely sit in and be disciplined.

Defensively we looked so much better yesterday that I may be the only one with any hope.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by artlin » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:43 pm

HammerInMaryland wrote:----------------------Fabianski-----------------
Fredericks--Balbuena--Diop--Cresswell
-----------------Rice------Sanchez-----------
--Yarmolenko---Anderson----Masuaku--
--------------------Arnautovic------------------

Rice and Sanchez cover fullbacks who look to join the attack. But Rice and Sanchez must absolutely sit in and be disciplined.

Defensively we looked so much better yesterday that I may be the only one with any hope.
That would be my call.

Wilshere, Noble, Perez, Hernandez. All potential subs.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by artlin » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:44 pm

Double post
Last edited by artlin on Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:44 pm

funky chicken wrote:We sadly won't play 3 at the back. So for me, as I mentioned twice leading up to Wimbledon and Wolves games we have to add an extra body in central midfield IMO.

I'd go with:

----------------------------------Fabianski-------------------------------

-Fredericks----------Balbuena-----Diop-----------Masuaku-

-----------------------------------Sanchez-----------------------------

------------------------Obiang------------Wilshere-------------

-----------------------------------Anderson--------------------------

---------------Yarmolenko---------------------Arnautovic----------


Subs: Adrian, Zabaleta, Ogbonna, Rice, Noble, Snodgrass, Perez.
:thup:

Would also prefer 3/5 at the back though for the record
Last edited by hammer1975 on Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Samba » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:45 pm

tizzwoz wrote:UNPOPULAR POST ALERT!!!
In times of crisis, everyone likes to point the finger of blame... I'm just curious if us as fans should share some of the responsibility?
This honestly isn't me digging us fans out, I'm just wondering if any of us feel that we are reaping what we sow right now.
Not a chance.
The chickens are now coming home to roost for G, S & B.
Btw, I can't help feeling that there is something odd about your motivation for the question.
Then again, you are seemingly quite pro-board, so it does fit with that.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Jumby » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:31 am

1-1 draw, Everton aren't all that. Saying that, is Richardson back for this one? If he is I'm going to say 2-1 Everton.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by mumbles87 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:14 am

Jumby wrote:1-1 draw, Everton aren't all that. Saying that, is Richardson back for this one? If he is I'm going to say 2-1 Everton.
Will be serving the last game of his suspension against us

And now rashford is out of the United game

Just need Pedro out the Chelsea game and that’s one pacey forward from the next 3 oppo

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by hammerman11 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:27 am

he wont play 3 at the back

fab
zab diop balbuena cresswell
yarmlenko rice snchez masuaka
Hernandez arnie

fullbacks to sit back two central midfielders to sit back. lets get a clean sheet first.
I would take a boring 0-0 but fear a 4-0 defeat is coming.

they have pace and desire. two things we don't !

still bottom after this AND PROBABLY THE NEXT 5 GAMES !

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:33 am

Other than Arnie, they have better players in every position. It will take a managerial masterclass to get a result...

... erm....

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