West Ham Utd 1-1 Liverpool (04/02/19)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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James P
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by James P » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:22 am

Samba wrote:Ohhh, the fella filming was a Muslim as well. So HE was the one upset because HE is a Muslim.
If he'd sat with his fellow Liverpool fans instead of being in with the home fans, he wouldn't have heard it. Liverpool fans have NEVER been heard shouting offensive things, but then he wouldn't know that, having probably NEVER sat with Liverpool fans, at a game.
I am not condoning what the guy shouted but it was not racist. A religion is not a race.
It sounds like young Mr Yazdani might be a bit of an agitator..
“If he hadn’t have been there he wouldn’t have heard it” :lol:

That’s some top drawer victim blaming

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by Porkeyes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:32 am

Very convenient to focus on this. How about we continue asking questions on what was driving the 2 ridiculous decisions that went Liverpool's way and could have kept them in top spot? No way were they mistakes that bad TWICE!!!

How did "Scousers" obtain tickets in the home end anyway? That could have led to someone doing a lot more than shouting something anti-religious to put someone off taking a corner. We could be looking at pictures and accounts of a mass tear-up inside the ground.

How GSB?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:34 am

I'm not condoning the actions of this stupid idiot one bit , but let's say for arguments' sake that this had been a West Ham fan filming a Liverpool fan abusing one of our players , does anyone think that it would have made the BBC News ?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by S-H » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:41 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I'm not condoning the actions of this stupid idiot one bit , but let's say for arguments' sake that this had been a West Ham fan filming a Liverpool fan abusing one of our players , does anyone think that it would have made the BBC News ?
I expect so Tomos, whoever was filming it is irrelevant, it's the content that matters.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by wildkard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:41 am

It's not on, however you slice it. Doesn't matter if "religion isn't a race", that you wouldn't be offended if you were called "a Christian ****", that the Liverpool fan filming it is your *typical* Liverpool fan (never been to a home game, all that caper) or that he's a Muslim himself, that Liverpool fans in general aren't exactly saints (booing Evra, for example). It's simply not on. People like this, irrespective of club, irrespective of how they try to justify their bigotry, irrespective of it being a minority, whatever... they need to be exposed, identified, and banned for life. There is no place for it. If you believe otherwise you are a piece of **** yourself.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by wildkard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:43 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I'm not condoning the actions of this stupid idiot one bit , but let's say for arguments' sake that this had been a West Ham fan filming a Liverpool fan abusing one of our players , does anyone think that it would have made the BBC News ?
Pretty sure it made the news before there was even a hint of who filmed it.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by bubbles1966 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:02 am

I think TOMOS' point is that there is an underlying media narrative attached to certain clubs - West Ham are one of them - that means the media are much more likely to latch onto it.

If it was solely about abusive behaviour and words, they wouldn't know where to start with football crowds the length and breadth of the country.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by mushy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:05 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I'm not condoning the actions of this stupid idiot one bit , but let's say for arguments' sake that this had been a West Ham fan filming a Liverpool fan abusing one of our players , does anyone think that it would have made the BBC News ?
Depends on the type of abuse, if it was similar to Monday then of course it would.
AM not really sure why you single out the BBC either, it has made all the news outlets hasnt it?

As for those others (not you TOMOS) using the 'its not really racist is it'? defence, seriously guys, thats beyond pathetic.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by vietnammer » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 am

Think the thing is that we're all being called up on what we say, and how we think, and it's easy to say this is a 'thought police' direction. Maybe though we can see (like most of the replies on this) that discouraging abuse of the kind that mixes up race and religion with football isn't a bad thing at all and probably benefits society. It's ridiculous to think that people in football crowds won't swear their heads off at opposition (and our own!) players and match officials, but I think the likes of KROOF are putting a good message out there.

Be interesting to see if they can identify this tosser from what seems to be an off-camera remark. That raises a lot of issues about surveillance, good and bad.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by woodford » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:23 am

Porkeyes wrote:Very convenient to focus on this. How about we continue asking questions on what was driving the 2 ridiculous decisions that went Liverpool's way and could have kept them in top spot? No way were they mistakes that bad TWICE!!!

How did "Scousers" obtain tickets in the home end anyway? That could have led to someone doing a lot more than shouting something anti-religious to put someone off taking a corner. We could be looking at pictures and accounts of a mass tear-up inside the ground.

How GSB?
Agree on both counts mate.

Those decisions look suspect. I appreciate mistakes happen but if the level of incompetence is that high and the basic knowledge of the linesmen is that low, surely that should be their last game in major football league? Were Liverpool to win the title by the point the earned on Monday then what? incompetence costs Millions££££

Also, agree on away supporters in the home end. We get preached to about health and safety in every aspect of football. Don't stand, don't drink, don't smoke, Stop, Go, and of course the precautionary feel up searches on the way in. Then there are new posters up about what can't be said, i get that entirely. But a bunch of pissed up aggressive away fans in the wrong place is going to cause more pain and offence than anything anyone can shout. What is the point of any of that when the biggest threat to your well being would be a tear up . Yet that's a risk they seem to deem acceptable as it comes with their cash reward

That is a risk thats going to bite Sulli on his arse at some point......which he'd probably enjoy if i wasnt thinking metaphorically.

before anyone gets preachy i am not in any way saying that shouting abuse is ok

EDIT : Maybe the club would do well to investigate how this blatant disregard for their own fans manages to occur given their Claret members scheme and their ticket exchange. I'm guessing it would be because they haven't got a clue whats happening and they like ££££
Last edited by woodford on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:24 am

wildkard wrote:
Pretty sure it made the news before there was even a hint of who filmed it.
The point I was trying to make was had it been a West Ham player abused by a Liverpool fan do you think it would have made the BBC News ? Maybe it would , maybe we're not considered a Big enough Club to bother with - they reported the Arsenal / Tottenham incident but had it been a Championship match or a League One match would it have made the news - Did this ' Liverpool ' fan who somehow got a ticket for the Home End set out to do this deliberately - I mean , it must take some time to take a phone out of your pocket and this chant couldn't have lasted that long as Sala was taking a corner so was this mere coincidence that this chap had set his phone to ' Record ' just as this West Ham moron happened to abuse Sala - Seems a bit of a set-up to me - Unless this thug was doing it every time Sala took a corner .

As I said , I am in no way condoning the actions of this abusive idiot , he should either be banned or sent to some sort of corrective centre , Chelsea sent some of their racist fans to Auschwitz instead of banning them but as others have said there are different types of abuse , it should all be stamped out .

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by davids cross » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:28 am

There is also a narrative among quite a few West Ham fans to downplay anything we do wrong.

I see it on here sometimes. Look for the excuse when it's West Ham, yet condemn it when it's someone else.

We have to be honest about it. Even if it's a small group or individuals. They don't represent me as a West Ham supporter.

Be the loudest, be the best, be the most loyal, be the funniest, give out the stick , be hostile.......football should not be sanitized. It would be terrible if it was. It wouldn't be worth going to.

But there are lines, people are gonna have to learn not to cross. Most people get that now........some still don't.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by Paolopaul » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:35 am

Whilst I agree the media are very selective on the news they choose to broadcast, I think in this case the abuse would have been reported the same way at any premier league ground in England.

However, as for the actual match, had West Ham have got the offside goal there would be bbc specials all week on whether refereeing decisions were costing Liverpool the league. Instead this way round it’s been basically swept under the carpet.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by James P » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Did this ' Liverpool ' fan who somehow got a ticket for the Home End set out to do this deliberately - I mean , it must take some time to take a phone out of your pocket and this chant couldn't have lasted that long as Sala was taking a corner so was this mere coincidence that this chap had set his phone to ' Record ' just as this West Ham moron happened to abuse Sala - Seems a bit of a set-up to me - Unless this thug was doing it every time Sala took a corner .
A set up? How exactly? He got someone to shout the abuse so he could record it?

Watch any game, there’s always people with their phones out recording players at corners. Happens all the time when their heroes are at the closest point to them.

You say you’re not condoning the perpetrators actions but you seem to be putting a lot of effort into casting aspersions on the actions and motivations of the person who captured the abuse. Why? For what purpose?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by One Peter Butler » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:39 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:I'm not condoning the actions of this stupid idiot one bit , but let's say for arguments' sake that this had been a West Ham fan filming a Liverpool fan abusing one of our players , does anyone think that it would have made the BBC News ?
Completely agree with the point you make here.

Somewhere in the last 10 to 15 years we have gone from being everyone’s second team to one of the real hated set. But at the same time the BBC especially have rapidly seen an erosion in what used to be very high standards. If you can ever judge a corporation by those who work for it, then Dan Roan shows that the BBC is on its knees.

Just to avoid any suggestion to the contrary, the bloke in the video is a cretin of the highest order. Not too dissimilar to a certain BBC journalist in the aftermath of the death of the Leicester chairman. Wrong, sick, tasteless and needs ‘kicking out’.

As ever TOMOS you are just about bang on the money.
Last edited by One Peter Butler on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by Wilko1304 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:42 am

I’d hope that racism in the crowd’s was always focused on more than bad officiating. One needs to be stamped out of society, the other is people making honest mistakes at work.

Who cares who filmed it? The guy said it regardless of who was around him, I’m happy it was filmed.

Just because I don’t think we should get into tribalism over this doesn’t mean I’m virtue signalling. Pointing out and hoping for punishment of something this disgusting is the most normal thing you can do.

The media would jump on this if it had been Liverpool fans, it’d probably be more newsworthy as this is how people see us anyway.

Further to that, the reason we have a narrative around us that fits this sort of thing is because we keep getting into problems with it. Henry, Phillips, OSB, anti-semitism online and at games, this video. I hope you are upset that this is how we’re portrayed, but to blame the media is to excuse the perpetrators.

The police do have far more pressing concerns, but if we can shut this kind of thing down, maybe there’ll be less violence around racism for the police to deal with. Maybe stopping the seeds being planted will stop these ideas spreading.

It baffles me that anyone debates around it. The answer is he’s worthy of a life ban and, personally, I think he’s racist. There are many other ills, in society and in football grounds, but to distort the real truth here by bringing those into it continues to shield the people who deserve little to no defence

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by Wilko1304 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:45 am

davids cross wrote:There is also a narrative among quite a few West Ham fans to downplay anything we do wrong.
Salient point.

If we defend the poorest behaviour, we are accepting it and encouraging it. We are setting very low standards.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by bubbles1966 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:58 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:[ I mean , it must take some time to take a phone out of your pocket and this chant couldn't have lasted that long as Sala was taking a corner so was this mere coincidence that this chap had set his phone to ' Record ' just as this West Ham moron happened to abuse Sala - Seems a bit of a set-up to me - Unless this thug was doing it every time Sala took a corner .
The crowd down in that corner was taking the piss out of Salah singing, "He's gonna dive in a minute".

As for the phone - the tourists all sit there with them on constantly.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by Coops » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:08 pm

davids cross wrote:There is also a narrative among quite a few West Ham fans to downplay anything we do wrong.
While this is true there also seems to be a narrative in the media to overplay the slightest transgression.

This video is a prime example. One person has shouted this out, one out of a crowd of 60,000. But the headlines say it was Wet Ham fans.
I am sorry but I am not happy to be labelled racist because of one idiot who happens to follow the same team as me. These things come out and it makes us all look bad, but the vast majority have far higher standards than the culprit.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:14 pm

James P wrote:
A set up? How exactly? He got someone to shout the abuse so he could record it?

Watch any game, there’s always people with their phones out recording players at corners. Happens all the time when their heroes are at the closest point to them.

You say you’re not condoning the perpetrators actions but you seem to be putting a lot of effort into casting aspersions on the actions and motivations of the person who captured the abuse. Why? For what purpose?
First of all , James let me point you to the bit where I said that this West Ham idiot should either be banned or sent to some sort of corrective centre . That isn't condoning his actions is it ?

The point I'm trying to make in my own little hamfisted manner is -

Would this have made the news had it been a West Ham player abused by a Liverpool fan - it just seems too much of a coincidence that this makes the news after we've gone and deprived the League Leaders of 3 points with no mention that Liverpool cheated their way to a draw -
It's one stupid idiot amongst 60,000 well behaved fans , yet our club is tarnished in front of the whole nation ., I guess that's the bit I'm upset by .

By all means ban this bloke or educate him that using such language isn't wanted at our Stadium .

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