West Ham Utd 3-1 Fulham (22/02/19)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

Moderator: Gnome

Post Reply
User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11439
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Aceface » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:48 pm

Staying with Snodgrass:
Eight chances created against Fulham. Only once this season has that total been surpassed in a Premier League game.

User avatar
sutts07
Posts: 9179
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Block 112, a far cry from CR1

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by sutts07 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:07 pm

Isn't that stat largely skewed by the fact we had a high volume of corners, he took most of them (if not all) and Fulham couldn't defend them for toffee...??

Were any of those chances created from open play?

*Just checked, he took 12 corners... essentially that is 12 'chances created' right there as long as someone gets their head on it in the box and it goes goal bound.

His heat map for the game shows each corner flag as a huge part of his performance.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11439
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Aceface » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:20 pm

It's covering 7 months months of games played by 20 teams (and nearly 30-odd against Fulham) so even if they were all from set plays it wouldn't be 'skewed', particularly since we were hardly dominant in the fixture overall.

It was like when Payet had just signed and a load of people said his assist stats in Ligue 1 were "inflated" by loads of goals scored from corners, as if that wasn't a skill in itself. People who forget the lesson of Mark Noble on corners are doomed to repeat it etc. etc.

User avatar
sutts07
Posts: 9179
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Block 112, a far cry from CR1

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by sutts07 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:49 pm

He took all 12 corners in the game, 50% of which resulted in a scoring chance. That accounts for six of his eight chances created. Had Anderson taken all of those corners Snodgrass would have only created one or two chances in the game.

To me, the stat says nothing other than Snodgrass was the corner taker in a game where Fulham conceded a lot of corners and struggled to defend them. It also means his delivery from those corners was pretty good (which to be fair is something we seem to have struggled with either side of us having Payet).

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11439
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Aceface » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:12 pm

Maybe a better way to look at it is if Anderson was taking corners would he have created 8 chances? And I'm confident in saying, no he wouldn't, since three quarters of them would have hit an opposition shin before it got anywhere near goal.

Given the first two goals came after Snodgrass corners I'm not sure it makes sense to value open play chances any more than dead ball chances.

User avatar
Ladzini
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:40 am

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Ladzini » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:16 pm

I know we are at slight risk of veering off topic but Payets corners really weren't all that...it was his dead ball delivery from free kicks into the box that were sublime along with his direct free kicks.
I don't remember us scoring many direct from a Payet corner delivery aside from Antonio v Sp*rs at home.

User avatar
sutts07
Posts: 9179
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Block 112, a far cry from CR1

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by sutts07 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:37 pm

Way off topic I agree but a study in 2017 showed that only 3% of corners taken in the Premier League lead to a goal being scored.

I think it was around 17% resulted in a chance being created.

My point is simply that Snodgrass could have done nothing else all game other than take corners and the 'stats' would still show him as creating six chances.

User avatar
Hamburger
Posts: 921
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:59 pm
Location: Sidcup

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Hamburger » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:17 pm

.
I said it earlier on this thread, Snoddy puts in a good shift and gets into promising positions but it generally ends in nothing. Either he goes to ground or passes to someone in a less promising position rather than go for goal. Any decent pro should be able to kick a dead ball although I grant that some are better than others and occasionally there is an exceptional one. No matter how good may look running around, his poor stats speak for themselves - 2 goals and 4 assists (mostly dead balls I guess) in 19 PL matches, simply not good enough for an attacking midfielder.
.

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 12183
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:39 pm

Hamburger wrote:.
I said it earlier on this thread, Snoddy puts in a good shift and gets into promising positions but it generally ends in nothing. Either he goes to ground or passes to someone in a less promising position rather than go for goal. Any decent pro should be able to kick a dead ball although I grant that some are better than others and occasionally there is an exceptional one. No matter how good may look running around, his poor stats speak for themselves - 2 goals and 4 assists (mostly dead balls I guess) in 19 PL matches, simply not good enough for an attacking midfielder.
.
Those stats don't tell the full story IMHO. He has been playing as a deep midfielder mostly with a licence to get forward rather than an attacking midfielder.
Plus although he may not get the final assist he is involved in a lot of our best and most dangerous interplay around the opposition box. He is very good at slipping players through with little deft touches in tight spaces

irving boleyn
Posts: 3922
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:13 pm

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by irving boleyn » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:56 pm

Crouchy,Wrong I know,but I was quite aroused by your last sentence,

User avatar
MK Hammer 3
Posts: 685
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:53 pm
Location: Bournemouth
Contact:

Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Fulham: match thread (22/2)

Post by MK Hammer 3 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:45 pm

Apart from an off the cuff remark from Carragher, there has been everybody creaming about VAR and Chicho's handball, but no mention of the blatant penalty not given when the goalie shoved Hernandez in the back at the near post corner when Antonio nearly scored. They were given consistently during the World Cup. Caragher mentioned there were about five instances of this happening. Forget the 'handball' incident that only one camera angle picked up with virtually no claims from Fulham players surrounding.

Post Reply