Chelsea 2-0 West Ham Utd (08/04/19)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

Moderator: Gnome

Post Reply
User avatar
Estuary
Posts: 4191
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:40 pm

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Estuary » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:05 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:Would Drinkwater not have offered us a bit more in our midfield than Noble did last night ?
Not unless he got bailed.

User avatar
sutts07
Posts: 9179
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Block 112, a far cry from CR1

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by sutts07 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:13 pm

Hammer in Hornchurch wrote: Hazard’s goal was good by him skill wise, but we should of made him work harder for it.
A tackle/block by a CM (Noble) would have helped.
Watching it back in the cold light of day, his movement off the ball was superb. He basically sits on Balbuena and waits until Rice is drawn to Jorginho and Noble to Kante. He then drops deep into the huge gap created by Rice and Noble being split and drives forward at pace which doesn't really give either Noble or Rice a chance to get near him. The way he dances through the defenders is superb.

Lanzini (our 3rd CM) is standing up near the half way line watching all of this throughout by the way. No intention of tracking back at any point.

Had we played three out and out CM's as opposed to just two with Lanzini 'floating' we may have been able to at least try to compete with three of the best CM's in the league / world.

aitchayell
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:59 pm

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by aitchayell » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:31 pm

Efficient, effective teams need to :
* Have energy, belief, confidence, commitment
* Press in numbers
* Close down opposition space and time
* Retain possession
* Once possession is lost work as a team to recover it
* Move forward with pace and precision

Do we regularly do any of these?

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 12135
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:41 pm

sutts07 wrote: Had we played three out and out CM's as opposed to just two with Lanzini 'floating' we may have been able to at least try to compete with three of the best CM's in the league / world.
Exactly.
We struggle against the poorer teams with just two in midfield.
Committing Hari-Kari doing that away from home vs Chelsea!

I just hope we go to Old Trafford with Rice, Noble and Snodgrass in the middle, in a 4-3-3, not a 4-2-2

Gsbgsb
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:43 am

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:44 pm

Sorry for all those posting Cresswell was at fault for the second he was not. He covered across to block a shot - doing his job. When the ball bounced into the midfield their passer was given time to play an excellent ball into a space that Cresswell had vacated but Anderson had not filled - you can see Cresswell pointing at him. Anderson almost got back, had he been alert initially he would have done. The midfield failed to do its defending job.

Defending is a team game, the primary source of both goals was lack of cover for the back 4 from the midfield.
Throughout the first half Anderson was not offering enough support down his flank to cover for Hudson- Odoi, Azpilicueta and Kante when he jogged past our midfield. Add to that the expectation that Cresswell was meant to attack and it was going to be hard. Far too often, especially first half we were committing to attack without a solid basis to do so and getting done on the counter.

This is what people want when they called for attacking football not the pragmatism of a Big Sam or Moyes.
Yes MP got the balance wrong first half, having an Antonio as opposed to Hernandez with Arnie down the middle from the start would have been better. We were better when Snodgrass came on to give us more defensive security whilst at the same time Arnie gave us greater stability to go forward on. Less can be more from an offensive perspective.

We are short of players (mostly due to injury) and the season is catching up with us. The summer will see a turnover as usual but to suggest we are as bad as we were under Bilic for me is wrong. MP has a pattern he wants to play, currently injury means he is missing a number of pieces. For most of his time at the club I never understood what Bilic was seeking to achieve, even in the final UP season it seemed to consist of little more than see what Payet could achieve. This year there has been a revolution in the squad as to how it was set up to play bringing in the likes of Anderson, Wilshere, Nasri and Yarmolenko. That needs to continue now by getting more players to support that style. Having a manager who knows what he wants to achieve and to have that more closely aligned with the goals/desires of the fans is moving in the right direction.

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 54472
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:49 pm

The opposition view: Chelsea
http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=133444

User avatar
Knighter10WHU
Posts: 3011
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 10:22 pm
Location: Berkshire.

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Knighter10WHU » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:53 pm

Surprised by all the negatives on the back of this game. I thought we were poor first half mainly down to Pellegrini's setup but second half we really came back into the game and could have nicked something. Ultimately we were beaten by one of the best players in the league (if not arguably the best on current form).

User avatar
sutts07
Posts: 9179
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Block 112, a far cry from CR1

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by sutts07 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:Sorry for all those posting Cresswell was at fault for the second he was not. He covered across to block a shot - doing his job.
As was the case with the first, it was just very clever movement from Hazard. He spotted that Cresswell had been pulled out of position for the clearance and deliberately drifted into the vacant space.

He is a master at drifting around the pitch and not getting picked up by anyone. The key to our superb defensive performance at home to Chelsea (and Hazard) was that Rice tracked him pretty much all over the park. It was his job and he stuck to it. Noble and Obiang were left to deal with Jorginho and Kante.

We tried to share the responsibility out between just Noble and Rice last night with Lanzini seemingly not asked to do any defensive work (or just not wanting to) and it was a disaster.

User avatar
Cockneyboy311
Posts: 8104
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:23 pm
Location: Fascination Street

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Cockneyboy311 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:13 pm

Up the Junction wrote:The opposition view: Chelsea
http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=133444

"Always a pleasure to beat West Ham. Despicable fans – no class. Can just keep watching Eden’s goal. I agree that RLC had an excellent game and was surprised he was taken off."
- The Swan


Coming from a Chelsea fan. Hilarious :lol:

goa127
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by goa127 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:23 pm

thought loftus cheek was influential last night in that he tied up and frequently out-muscled rice. That gave Hazard the extra bit of space to weave his magic. Apart from a couple of really sloppy mistakes I don't really blame cresswell at all. He held Hudson-Odoi at bay most of the time and was obviously asked to push forward at every opportunity, leaving his flank exposed to the counter. Lanzini at the moment is a total passenger and I am puzzled as to why he's playing 90 minutes every week. good to see arnie leading the line 2nd half, glimpses of his previous form

User avatar
swash
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:30 pm
Location: Behind the Wall of Sleep

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by swash » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:24 pm

Yep Chelsea fans are dead classy, just ask Raheem Sterling and the black geezer on the Paris metro for starters

User avatar
61dicksey
Posts: 10283
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:48 am
Location: Hampshire

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by 61dicksey » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:45 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:Would Drinkwater not have offered us a bit more in our midfield than Noble did last night ?
He doesn’t drink water according to the Met

User avatar
The Gibbins
Maggot infested twat
Posts: 23311
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: Living in Perception

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by The Gibbins » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:56 pm

We improved second half, but its beyond tiresome watching us start near enough every game so poorly. It has been our one consistent trait this season, we just don't look switched on from kick off. Im ****ing bored watching West Ham now, wish they would just let us end the season :lol:

User avatar
madhammer
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: on the road to nowhere

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by madhammer » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Admittedly the Everton game had set a pretty low bar, but I didn’t think the performance last night was as bad as some of the despairing comments I’ve read on here.

Sure one or two in the Claret & Blue didn’t have their best days (Hernandez mainly), but I think the blame for that can largely be laid at the Managers door for the way he set us up in the first half. It has been apparent since the first 2 home games of the season versus Bournemouth and Wolves that we can’t play 2 in central midfield and expect to compete regularly in the PL, especially against one of the ‘Big 6’.

While the formation in the first half was at least 4-2-3-1, rather than the suicidal 4-4-2 of recent weeks, with Lanzini very clearly instructed to do a man-marking job on Jorginho. Sadly a midfield duo of Noble and Rice was never going to be athletic enough to deal with one of the most dynamic, quick and strong midfields in the league of Kante and Loftus-Cheek.

That coupled with Hazards ability to glide past opponents, and cut inside at every opportunity meant we were often outnumbered in the centre of the pitch and frequently chasing shadows during their quick counter attacks.

Compared to Kante and RLC we have no pace or forward drive in our CM which allows us to advance up the pitch quickly when we win the ball back. Instead we often have to take 2 or 3 extra passes before working the ball out wide to Anderson or Antonio (if he is playing) by which time the opposition have regrouped, initiative lost and it becomes increasingly difficult to break them back down again.

While I think we can all agree that Rice is going to be a top DM. It does mean that top of the shopping list for me in the summer is a powerful, dynamic and box-to-box midfielder somebody that can break the game open in those moments we win the ball back. If they are able to ride that first tackle and surge forward in to the space, it will in turn free up more space for the likes of Anderson, Lanzini and Arnautovic.

For the record I am a huge Noble fan and I think he still has a huge role to play next season, but the complete lack of a box-to-box midfielder in the squad, and the option to play one as certain games dictate, has seen us frequently lose the midfield battle.

Other player observations from the game below.

Fabianski (7/10) – His usual consistent and excellent self except for one flap at a corner towards the end of the first half. If I was to be ultra-critical the one area of weakness he possesses is his distribution. Clearly his kicking isn’t great and with Hernandez, Lanzini, and Anderson in advanced positions we’re not going to win many headers so I think it’s imperative he looks to release the ball quickly via quick throws. In his defence he does seem to be looking to do this at times and I’m not sure if his hesitancy is down to a lack of movement or trust of those in front of him.

Fredericks (6/10) – Really can’t work this guy out. Came with a reputation as an excellent attacking RB, but suspect defensively. Instead Pellegrini seems to use him against the big teams, where he is wary of AML attackers pace and dribbling - Hazard, Mane, Zaha, Sterling. In spite of his 2 goals last night (scored from Central and Right-Hand side of the pitch) and all-round excellent play, I though Fredericks did pretty well up against Hazard. Clearly his pace is an asset defensively, but we have seen next to nothing from him offensively in any of the games he’s started. While I wouldn’t necessarily have expected this at Chelsea away. Compare and contrast to Zabaleta who seems to spend all his time high up the pitch, but doesn’t possess the recovery speed. I’m not quite sure if Fredericks reluctance to attack is due to the managers instructions and/or opposition he has played against. Or if he’s struggling for confidence having been in and out of the side? Either way I think he should play the remainder of the season so we can assess how badly a new RB is needed, especially with Zabaleta’s contract up at the end of the season.

Cresswell (5/10) – I find him cowardly in and out of possession. Frequently loses his man when they run past him, hides when teammates are in possession and panics hoofing the ball down the line when there is nothing on. Not sure he is composed enough on the ball for Pellegrini’s preferred playing style, as seen by Masuaku starting the season ahead of him, won his place back but has been poor recently. I’m not sure either is consistent enough if we have aspirations of challenging for 7th spot. Either could go, but time for Masuaku to come back in and stake his claim.

Balbuena (7/10) – The jury is still out for me and I definitely don’t rate him as highly as some on here do. But I thought he had a solid game last night and that both he and Ogbonna dealt well with a Chelsea team who I thought played well and often broke at pace and in numbers.

Ogbonna (7/10) – Part of the reason I haven’t been quite as convinced by Balbuena as others, is I think Ogbonna is a perfectly good defender and offers nice balance as a Left footer. Decent turn off pace and good aerially, I thought the pair of them did well against a Chelsea front line full of pace, tricks and movement.

Rice (6/10) – Perhaps didn’t win as many tackles as he usually does in the middle of the park and struggled at times against the more muscular presence of RLC. That said I don’t particularly remember him doing anything wrong and think it was more a case of the tactics and personnel first half.

Noble (6/10) – See above comments for Rice. We know he doesn’t have the acceleration to live with a breaking Kante and RLC so it was no surprise to see us struggle in that regards. Always show’s for the ball and remains our best player at linking defence to attack via the middle of the pitch. Lost what little momentum we had when he left the pitch.

Lanzini (5/10) – Performed a fairly disciplined man-marking role on Jorginho to my eye, but while he limited Jorginho’s involvement he wasn’t able to disrupt him and win the ball off him in dangerous areas as other teams have. For what it’s worth I think he’s been rushed back much to quickly and played too many minutes since his return after a pretty serious injury and looks off the pace. On the rare occasion he was able to win the ball back or had a little bit of space he looks to have lost the little bit of acceleration he did to glide away from defenders. Hopefully, he recovers that with a full pre-season under his belt and this season is nothing more than preparing him for that. Should have done better with his chance at the beginning of the 2nd half.

Anderson (6/10) – His attacking threat and productivity has clearly dipped in recent weeks, but I still think he looks our most dangerous attacker whenever he receives the ball. Chronic lack of support last night and there must have been 5 or 6 occasions when he broke forward and had to check back because he had no support or passing options. Needs an interested striker to work and play-off.

Arnautovic (5/10) – First half when playing wide I thought he actually put a decent shift in, including doing his bit defensively. While we looked better as a team second half and moving him up top was definitely a factor in that, I thought his movement remained pretty static and that he didn’t work the channels as well as he could/has done in the past. In his defence some of the service he received was pretty poor but the straight balls in to him were often as a result of him remaining pretty stationary and positioned up against one of the defensive pairing.

Hernandez (2/10) – Back to his usual disinterested self. Quite simply he doesn’t have the physical presence to play up top by himself in the PL, especially against top 6 sides who monopolise possession. That said I expect a little bit of commitment especially for £140,000 a week. Had to sit amongst the home fans last night which meant I was behind the goal we were ‘attacking’ in the first half so watched him closely. Didn’t once try to close down their CB on the ball, which meant they were able to advance at ease to our halfway line unopposed time and time again.

Subs

Snodgrass (6/10) – His enthusiasm and commitment definitely helped at the beginning of the second half. Was definitely more effective than Lanzini at winning the ball back off them higher up the pitch and we were able to sustain a few more attacks as a result. Question marks about his effectiveness in the final third in open play, but a lovely cross from the free-kick which Arnautovic might have done better with.

Obiang (3/10) – Regressed so much this season. A midfielder without any particular role or skill set since Rice took his place at the base of midfield. Aside from a tackle/cross when he first came on I don’t know if he touched the ball after that? Passing not good to replace Noble, not an out and out DM like Rice, not the athletic box-to-box midfielder we need. Get rid in the summer and upgrade if possible.

User avatar
Hugh Jargon II
Posts: 3521
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:50 pm

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Hugh Jargon II » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:49 pm

We played well.

We were light years away from them. We are mid table at best. I predict Pelli will be off soon

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 29079
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yQRp4j ... e=youtu.be

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by prophet:marginal » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:17 pm

Whoscored.com ranked Hazard's performance as a (perfect) 10/10 yesterday.

(see the latter stage of this article)

Ironing Board
Posts: 1177
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 am

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:08 pm

Knighter10WHU wrote:Surprised by all the negatives on the back of this game. I thought we were poor first half mainly down to Pellegrini's setup but second half we really came back into the game and could have nicked something. Ultimately we were beaten by one of the best players in the league (if not arguably the best on current form).
Nick being the operative word - we were completely outplayed, even taking into account the second half purple patch.

Gsbgsb
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:43 am

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:23 pm

I am not suggesting we played well etc but we lost to a team that have only lost once at home all season, scored one of the goals of the season and for part of the second half we could well have equalised. All of that with a disturbing injury list and players just getting back to fitness.

Yes we were outplayed but I would expect little else most visits, especially if we pick an overly aggressive line up as we did.

The game against Everton was woeful but yesterday was a case of us working hard but being beaten by a better team with one of the best players on the planet on his game.

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 29079
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yQRp4j ... e=youtu.be

Re: ⚽ Chelsea v West Ham Utd: match thread (8/4)

Post by prophet:marginal » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:26 pm

Lanzini's shot was also brilliantly saved, by that youngster between the posts for Chelsea.

Its classic 'what if', granted, but if we'd scored then, we could have held on.

Post Reply